@hoorta said:

I'll trust guys who have seen every one of Cousins' games over a pile of stats. I don't disagree he'd be a massive upgrade over anything we have now. Here's the $150 million dollar question. Do we think Cousins is good enough to lead the Browns to a Super Bowl, or just a slightly better version of Andy Dalton?   

But man it's not about going to the super bowl. I just wanna have a guy back there who will us some damn games, which Kirk would do instantly. Gotta walk before you run.

@the-gipper said:

Obviously....I would not doubt it at all.

But.....in my opinion it is now a real quandary for the Browns....and for Fester.    The article states that McCarron wants to play....wants to be a starter. It does NOT say that he wants to serve as a bridge QB.

So...it seems to me that the only way McCarron signs here is if  the Browns essentially say to him:  you have a chance to be our QB going forward into the forseeable future.   But fooyuck....is that what the Browns want?  

If the Browns take a QB #1 overall...I mean HE is the long term projected future for the Browns.....not some backup signed as a FA.

He could tell the Browns to go piss up a rope.

What I see potentially happening is a rift between  Dorsey and Jackson.   Dorsey saying "we are going for a QB #1 to be our future" ;  Jackson saying "I am deep in the arms of McCarron and want to have his children...so let's get him."   

THAT is the dilemma for the Browns....and for McCarron.  He has a coach that wants to butt snuffle him.....in Jackson....but that team may have a GM that wants his QBOTF to come from the draft. 

Money is not the issue.  The politics would be the issue.

Does that mean that Jimmy will be on the hook for child support payments for that bastard?  Or will it be Hue? McC can be a fair QB on a good team. I doubt if he'll be much help to us. 

@mjp28 said:

More referring to the BROWNS OFFICIAL QUARTERBACK SEARCH and SUCCESSION PLAN requirement #2.

1. Must be breathing. 2. Must have helmet to play. 

Got ya.    Nah- must be younger than 40, can throw a football more than 40 yards, and doesn't need wheelchair assistance.   We're leaving no stone on turned here. Maybe I can start a 30 page thread (ala Po) why we need to trade with the Broncos to get Ghoolie's fave Paxton Lynch.   

@hoorta said:

Why would I need a helmet? I'm just an armchair GM, not a quarterback.    

More referring to the BROWNS OFFICIAL QUARTERBACK SEARCH and SUCCESSION PLAN requirement #2.

1. Must be breathing. 2. Must have helmet to play. 

@mjp28 said:

Hey you, did you bring your helmet? 

Why would I need a helmet? I'm just an armchair GM, not a quarterback.    

@hoorta said:

.....That's exactly what the Browns are now- Beggars. With one difference. This beggar is telling the quarterbacks and players walking by- "hey bub, I got the key to the vault in the bank across the street". 

I hope this is the Browns "QB plan of succession". .......

Hey you, did you bring your helmet? 

@nero said:

If we keep a 1-31 coach, to then let him decide to sign a backup QB as quaterback of the future and pass on a QB in a draft both deep and with good quality in the position, then I've seen it all.

A 1-31 coach should not have the final word on this matter. Dorsey should listen to him -a good coach-GM chemistry is the path for success- but he should never submit his opinion to Hue's. 

I agree.    If I was Dorsey I'd tell Hue to shut-up and feel lucky he still has a job.   I'll pick the players and you coach the players.

Here is a tip Hue....figure out a way to win 2 of the first 5.  If you don't, you are history.   Screw Hue.  He needs to shut-up and coach.  You're nothing but a rented mule to me.

For those who don't understand the mule comment, you beat a rented mule a lot harder than you beat your own mule.

@mjp28 said:

No point? The BROWNS currently have NO QB plan of succession and drafting another rookie isn't the immediate answer.

Like some talk about a "bridge" quarterback, they have nothing but Kizer right now and have gone through a ridiculous 27 (+/-) quarterbacks when some teams have gone through a small handful.

WANT AD: Quarterback wanted, experience helpful, start immediately generous pay package friendly work environment 

That's the problem- fans are so tired of losing, they want immediate results. 95 out of 100 times, that doesn't work- certainly not in the long run. The Broncos went that route with Manning and now they're drafting fifth, plus they had a stud team around him- the Browns don't have that situation.  Some guys have this pie in the sky notion getting Cousins and miraculously having the draft and Free agency turn out perfectly- the Browns are a hot commodity again- immediately. Ghoolie will be laughing hs a$$ off with that line of thinking. 

@mjp28 said:

When you have just Kizer, himself an inexperienced quarterback both in college and his baptism of fire in the NFL, well A. Smith, Cousins, Bridge-water, McCarron, Joe Blow all look like Joe Montana......if you're a Cleveland Browns player or fan.

What's that old saying "beggars can't be choosers"? My mom used to say that.....and to my knowledge she never was an NFL GM.

The BROWNS are in QB he11 right now. 

That's exactly what the Browns are now- Beggars. With one difference. This beggar is telling the quarterbacks and players walking by- "hey bub, I got the key to the vault in the bank across the street". 

I hope this is the Browns "QB plan of succession".  Get a great bridge QB- McCarron isn't it you say? Maybe, maybe not. We're not going to be spending $150 million dollars to find out though. He has more game tape on him than Garoppolo had, and Jimmy seems to be doing ok in San Fran.  Yeah, yeah, yeah- Dalton isn't Tom Brady. Well, Marvin Lewis isn't Bill Belichick either.  Draft your top QB #1 overall- whoever you decide it to be. He sits behind whoever the bridge is- as it should be. Everyone and his uncle said Kizer wasn't ready, Deshone gets demoted to second string, and if McCarron gets hurt, Kizer gets to show if he's learned anything in the off season- the rookie still sits. Hope Barkley falls to #4, if not get BPA. Agreed the quarterback carousel needs to stop. 

Grooming our QBOTF via the draft, bringing him along slowly and conserving cap room until we really need it- at the expense of winning  a few less games with McCarron, is a better plan IMHO than "all in" with Cousins (where's your "plan of succession there?) blowing the cap on free agents, and hoping you can turn a low round qb like Mike White into another Garoppolo. 

@flugel said:

Gumby, UT was on television every week when I lived in TN.  I'd be terrified if Tyler Bray is the guy Dorsey wants so hopefully you can persuade me otherwise. 

Not a chance in hells-bells I could persuade anybody that Tyler Bray is even now the #2 backup behind Maholmes.but as of now, he is. I think KC is in serious trouble when the guy replacing Dorsey as GM, his 1st move was taking Cameal Erving off our hands...for A 4th! are ya kidding Me ..We got are own problems..Hue may like McCarron but Dorsey has been in the business long enough he has his list too. I seriously Hope that this talent evaluation team stops thinking Hue can take 2nd hand QB's (fixing their own poor decisions rebooting) & making them into HOF QB's. None of these QB guys are ready to command a huddle calling plays they never did before. Wentz/Goff still struggle with pre-snap looks locking on 1st read that is now covered. This Qb's group will also struggle. I do like a QB with some Velocity on ball in our division..but for god sakes, 5-6 of these QB's from my couch, I can see, can take some off the ball putting touch on the ball at back line of endzone & maybe 3-4 show when the ball needs to be thrown at the right outside shoulder pad away from defender, they can put it there.>Start Here<.Cousins or not. take your top 3 QB. pay another $7-8M in cap space & let them Earn it. Not give it over guys of Rg3's & Brock Arrrs-soiled talent.        

@hoorta said:

There are plenty of voices out there besides Redskins fans who are saying buyer beware on Cousins. Great stats. But will only get you so far. Think I said better version of Andy Dalton? When Andy had an all star set of wrs an a pair of rbs churning out 1,000 yards they made the playoffs four years running. And were one and done. Take that away, and where are the Bengals now? The goal isn't to get to the playoffs, it's to win the whole thing. Regarding AJ, he had the Steelers on the ropes in their playoff game, and couldn't finish them off. 

When you have just Kizer, himself an inexperienced quarterback both in college and his baptism of fire in the NFL, well A. Smith, Cousins, Bridge-water, McCarron, Joe Blow all look like Joe Montana......if you're a Cleveland Browns player or fan.

What's that old saying "beggars can't be choosers"? My mom used to say that.....and to my knowledge she never was an NFL GM.

The BROWNS are in QB he11 right now. 

@louisville-slugger said:

I think you misinterpret people when we say we would be happy to go 8-8. Thats what Kirk Cousins was able to accomplish on bad team. The idea is we can continue to put talent around him and we can improve. Regardless if he can't get over the hump, Cousins floor turns us into playoff contenders. It's a much safer bet than relying on some wildcard rookie that has never taken an NFL snap or FA that has never seen that kind of success.

There are plenty of voices out there besides Redskins fans who are saying buyer beware on Cousins. Great stats. But will only get you so far. Think I said better version of Andy Dalton? When Andy had an all star set of wrs an a pair of rbs churning out 1,000 yards they made the playoffs four years running. And were one and done. Take that away, and where are the Bengals now? The goal isn't to get to the playoffs, it's to win the whole thing. Regarding AJ, he had the Steelers on the ropes in their playoff game, and couldn't finish them off. 

@tacosman said:

There is no point to signing AJ.  There is no evidence he is even a capable nfl backup, much less a starting caliber qb.  I've been very unimpressed with AJ the few times he has received meaningful snaps.  Very lead footed, needs a certain spot to have a decent launch, can't reset his launch point easily because he's so lead footed, etc....His upside is extremely low imo. 

Cousins would be fine.  But as others have said, why in the world would he sign with Cleveland?  He is going to have other teams wanting his services that are far more attractive situations for really big money as well.

Totally disagree.

Like some talk about a "bridge" quarterback, they have nothing but Kizer right now and have gone through a ridiculous 27 (+/-) quarterbacks when some teams have gone through a small handful.

WANT AD: Quarterback wanted, experience helpful, start immediately generous pay package friendly work environment 

Cousins would be fine.  But as others have said, why in the world would he sign with Cleveland?  He is going to have other teams wanting his services that are far more attractive situations for really big money as well.

@gumby73 said:

Tough QB crowd Yes Hue may have his bridge QB to target & compete as Starter with Kizer..But Dorsey has his guy also that he Drafted & has sat at KC till contract expired behind Alex Smith. Now set to be a FA in KC is Dorsey's QB Tyler Bray..Did I ever say I hate McCarron's ball Velocity mph of 53 mph that matches B.Hundley,Laundry Jones & Poe's hunk/hunk of burning love of Kevin Hogan? Has Hue ever saw a deep ball, that Hue wants to take shots with down the field of AJ McCarron's to AJ Green?(not many) Tyler Bray is 6'6" 215 with 59 mph. Here's some others...59mph-Cousins,Weeden,P.Lynch,Bray////58mph-Goff////57mph-Foles,C.Daniels,Wentz//////56mph-Dalton,Jimmy G,Newton,Bortles,Mariota,Colt McCoy////55mph-Keenum,R.Wilson,Maholmes,KESSLER,Flacco,Winston////52mph-Kizer///50mph--Ty.Taylor,C.Cook,M.Trubisky....how bout Deshawn Watson at 45mph... source Ourlad's      

Gumby, UT was on television every week when I lived in TN.  I'd be terrified if Tyler Bray is the guy Dorsey wants so hopefully you can persuade me otherwise.  Here's a link of his numbers and note the types of schools/lesser competition he needed just to bring his completion % up to mediocrity overall.  https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tyler-bray-1/gamelog/

FWIW, there's a ton of highlights inclusive of some long ball ropes from Watson as well as their #1 conference ranking in scoring offense most of the time he started that should remind us ball velocity may not be the tell-all assessment some want to make it out to be.  And when Houston had to go back to the other QB (Tom Savage) who has a strong arm, the offense flat lined.   Other notable QBs with good ball velocity were Jamarcus Russell, JP's Lost-man, Patrick Ramsey, Derek Anderson, Kyle Boller, Jake Locker, Jay Cutler, Brandon Weeden. If guys can't make good pre-snap diagnoses and they're often late throwing the ball - ball velocity takes a back seat as depicted by many of the fellers I just named....

Like Drew Brees reminds us after his first 3 years ended with SD sporting the worst record in the NFL prompting them to draft a QB 1st overall - arm strength CAN improve. So can recognition and pre-snap reads. Staying with Drew Brees' improvement, SD finally looked at what Drew Brees did best in college and why.  They decided they wanted to get him back in the same shot gun (he enjoyed at Purdue) so he could have a better view of the defensive formation in his pre-snap reads so he could get his throws there on time.  Therefore, it was no coincidence they drafted a Center from Purdue in 2004 named Nick Hardwick (who snapped for countless shotguns at Purdue).  All of sudden, the fitness program Brees praised for his improvements and the better pre-snap reads helping him get the ball there sooner was a double-dose of improvement.

@hoorta said:

On further review, and some intel from another board- when McCarron posted that lame 53 mph fastball at the combine, he was coming off a shoulder injury he suffered at Alabama. Already posted his draft profile, nfl.com had him rated as a 2nd round prospect. Had a 60% completion rate with the 'Tide, and yeah, I know- Kessler was great in that respect in college. 

Regarding Cousins going 8-8 or maybe 9-7 here. Sheeze, it's a growing pre FA crowd that's been so used to the Browns going 2-14 or worse, they're ready to throw a parade for a .500 finish. I have my sights set higher. 

I think you misinterpret people when we say we would be happy to go 8-8. Thats what Kirk Cousins was able to accomplish on bad team. The idea is we can continue to put talent around him and we can improve. Regardless if he can't get over the hump, Cousins floor turns us into playoff contenders. It's a much safer bet than relying on some wildcard rookie that has never taken an NFL snap or FA that has never seen that kind of success.

@richiswhere said:

I guess we will see how Hue really feels about AJ and if he has any pull. I just don't see how if we sign McCarron (28) or Cousins (30) how we can look at these guys as "bridges". Quarterbacks are playing longer and longer now. There is no reason to sign one of these guys if you are not expecting them to lead you for the next 7 to 10 years.

If they think they are expected to be only the "bridge" they won't sign with the Browns. They are expecting to be someone's starter, not a bridge. That will exclude them from considering the Browns at all. So if the Browns go after one, they had better be explaining to that person their intents with the picks coming up in the draft.

@gumby73 said:

Careful or I can pay Poe to make Tyler Bray the next walking/talking Peyton Manning..Cousins in Todd Haley's system can win here just as many times as Skins did with Cousins. Opens the door in draft to many things..Crowder at Skins would be a used toy compared to Gordon & the gift wrapped WR Christian Kirks from draft..see Poe has already brain washed me..but am not sold on Barkley..Y E T

On further review, and some intel from another board- when McCarron posted that lame 53 mph fastball at the combine, he was coming off a shoulder injury he suffered at Alabama. Already posted his draft profile, nfl.com had him rated as a 2nd round prospect. Had a 60% completion rate with the 'Tide, and yeah, I know- Kessler was great in that respect in college. 

Regarding Cousins going 8-8 or maybe 9-7 here. Sheeze, it's a growing pre FA crowd that's been so used to the Browns going 2-14 or worse, they're ready to throw a parade for a .500 finish. I have my sights set higher. 

@hoorta said:

Regarding McCarron, you posting his ball velocity confirms what I saw in the YouTube I posted in another thread- not great. Do we want to bring in a higher priced edition of Kevin Hogan and Cody Kessler?  

I've resigned myself to the possibility Dorsey will buy into the "win now" crowd, and open the vault for Cousins. As Jiggins has said, it may not matter how much money we throw at Kirk if he's got his sights on that "win now" team. 

Careful or I can pay Poe to make Tyler Bray the next walking/talking Peyton Manning..Cousins in Todd Haley's system can win here just as many times as Skins did with Cousins. Opens the door in draft to many things..Crowder at Skins would be a used toy compared to Gordon & the gift wrapped WR Christian Kirks from draft..see Poe has already brain washed me..but am not sold on Barkley..Y E T

@jiggins7919 said:

If we actually had a choice between signing Cousins to a long term contract versus drafting a rookie and signing another low-caliber veteran qb, I would think the majority of fans would be all over Cousins as our guy. Problem is, we're likely not to have that choice. Why on earth would he come to Cleveland? What's the difference between making $27 million and $29 million? So we can PAY him more, that's the reason why he would play for us? Hell no. And Joe Thomas being on the fence? That doesn't help. 

You wanna know the frustrating thing? If we signed Kirk Cousins, we wouldn't even have to worry about drafting a QB, and just THINK of what we could do with our picks this draft. We could trade down, trade for veteran players, we could turn the 1st and 4th picks into God knows what. THAT'S the truly frustrating thing....if we could just SIGN a quality qb, we could use assets on everything else and make a team...A REAL team. 

But Kirk ain't coming to Cleveland. He's not coming to the worst team in history. He's not taking more money to freeze his butt off and be under the microscope in a football crazy town that has the most rotten track record imaginable. We need to nail the qb in the draft, NOT get cute and trade down until we have our guy, and pray to the gods that we finally get it right. 

I'm not sure he's a firm no on Cleveland as much as anyone wants to say otherwise. There is ego involved here. The Browns are going to play this up to him. They will essentially say, "You think you are great. Come to Cleveland. Turn an 0-16 team into a Super Bowl winner and you will be a GOD! Hell, just take them to the playoffs. and oh by the way, you are going to sign the richest contract in nfl history. Plus you are going to be supported with 6 of the top 65 draft picks in this draft and a whole lot of cap room for other FA's...You like that?!" There is definitely something to be said for that mindset. If he really only wants to go to a winner, than it's MN hands down. Denver is aging and not that good, AZ is in the same boat. Jet's aren't terrible but they outperformed how good that roster really is. Jax would be nice, but i'm not sure they have the cap room especially if Bortles doesn't pass his physical after wrist surgery. Cleveland is young and hungry.

The talent on the browns is not nearly as bad as their record showed. They should have won at least 4-5 games that they blew. There is way more talent on this team than the Redskins had. 

@gumby73 said:

Tough QB crowd Yes Hue may have his bridge QB to target & compete as Starter with Kizer..But Dorsey has his guy also that he Drafted & has sat at KC till contract expired behind Alex Smith. Now set to be a FA in KC is Dorsey's QB Tyler Bray..Did I ever say I hate McCarron's ball Velocity mph of 53 mph that matches B.Hundley,Laundry Jones & Poe's hunk/hunk of burning love of Kevin Hogan? Has Hue ever saw a deep ball, that Hue wants to take shots with down the field of AJ McCarron's to AJ Green?(not many) Tyler Bray is 6'6" 215 with 59 mph. Here's some others...59mph-Cousins,Weeden,P.Lynch,Bray////58mph-Goff////57mph-Foles,C.Daniels,Wentz//////56mph-Dalton,Jimmy G,Newton,Bortles,Mariota,Colt McCoy////55mph-Keenum,R.Wilson,Maholmes,KESSLER,Flacco,Winston////52mph-Kizer///50mph--Ty.Taylor,C.Cook,M.Trubisky....how bout Deshawn Watson at 45mph... source Ourlad's      

Nice research Gumby- but other than having an NFL arm, not much to say about Tyler. Obviously, Dorsey knows a good deal about him. UFA out of Tennessee, Spent a year on IR with a torn ACL, and has thrown exactly one pass in a regular season game.  

Regarding McCarron, you posting his ball velocity confirms what I saw in the YouTube I posted in another thread- not great. Do we want to bring in a higher priced edition of Kevin Hogan and Cody Kessler? 

Doubtless Allen will be in the 59 mph range when they clock him at the combine. 

I've resigned myself to the possibility Dorsey will buy into the "win now" crowd, and open the vault for Cousins. As Jiggins has said, it may not matter how much money we throw at Kirk if he's got his sights on that "win now" team. 

You wanna know the frustrating thing? If we signed Kirk Cousins, we wouldn't even have to worry about drafting a QB, and just THINK of what we could do with our picks this draft. We could trade down, trade for veteran players, we could turn the 1st and 4th picks into God knows what. THAT'S the truly frustrating thing....if we could just SIGN a quality qb, we could use assets on everything else and make a team...A REAL team. 

But Kirk ain't coming to Cleveland. He's not coming to the worst team in history. He's not taking more money to freeze his butt off and be under the microscope in a football crazy town that has the most rotten track record imaginable. We need to nail the qb in the draft, NOT get cute and trade down until we have our guy, and pray to the gods that we finally get it right.