Zombo said:

He is going to be in the box this year, where he played at Michigan. I don't know what that means for Derek Kindred Spirits ... Special teams? But we will be drafting a free safety and Peppers will move in to the strong slot, I think that is a given.

Zombo

Defensively I would hope free safety and corner are top priorities this offseason

@dutch-oven said:

I want to see Peppers in the position he's suited for - strong safety - before I write him off as a bust.

That being said, I do recall referring to him as a "jack of all trades, master of none" type of guy before we drafted him. 

He is going to be in the box this year, where he played at Michigan. I don't know what that means for Derek Kindred Spirits ... Special teams? But we will be drafting a free safety and Peppers will move in to the strong slot, I think that is a given.

Zombo

@lbc-mike said:

Peppers could be a pro bowler with the patriots.  Trade him for butler.

Do you really think he could be a Pro Bowler?  What is his average?

@tiamat63 said:

That was actually a Williams (coaches) pick. 

I'm aware of that as well

That being said, I do recall referring to him as a "jack of all trades, master of none" type of guy before we drafted him. 

@nickers said:

Again.. I saw Peppers as a wasted pick.. I saw him as nothing more than a career ST's player... You don't draft special teamers with high picks.. But Sushi had to try and outsmart everyone I guess...

That was actually a Williams (coaches) pick. 

@nickers said:

Again.. I saw Peppers as a wasted pick.. I saw him as nothing more than a career ST's player... You don't draft special teamers with high picks.. But Sushi had to try and outsmart everyone I guess...

Well....I suspect that if he was used better, he could perform better....and not be a waste.  That hybrid thing was his calling card....and if in fact it is going to be more in vogue in the NFL...I should hope and think that Peppers could fill that role with aplomb.......and not be a bomb.

@the-gipper said:

I think that is right.   Of course, that defense is best when you have someone that could play like a hybrid DB/LB.   Wasn't that what we thought they were going to do with Peppers?  Since that is much of what he did in college?  

How has that worked out so far?

Again.. I saw Peppers as a wasted pick.. I saw him as nothing more than a career ST's player... You don't draft special teamers with high picks.. But Sushi had to try and outsmart everyone I guess...

@dutch-oven said:

So wouldn't that be a 4-2-5 defense?

I think that is right.   Of course, that defense is best when you have someone that could play like a hybrid DB/LB.   Wasn't that what we thought they were going to do with Peppers?  Since that is much of what he did in college?  

How has that worked out so far?

@nickers said:

Fritz Shurmur authored that configuration pretty much.. Used it back when He was DC at LA Rams in the 80's . Then famed USC coach John Robinson was the head coach. It's another spin off of Bill Arnspargers (Bend , but don't Break) Defense.

"

NFL coaching career

From 1975 to 1998, Shurmur was a defensive coach in the National Football League. He coached for the Detroit Lions, New England Patriots, Los Angeles Rams, Arizona Cardinals, Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks. For nineteen of those years he was a defensive coordinator.^[1]

Shurmur became defensive coordinator for the Green Bay Packers in 1994. In 1997, the Packers won Super Bowl XXXI over the New England Patriots. Shurmur left Green Bay in 1999 to be defensive coordinator with the Seahawks when Mike Holmgren accepted the dual roles of head coach and general manager with Seattle. Shurmur died of liver cancer before he could coach his first game with Seattle.

Throughout his coaching career, Shurmur was widely known as an innovative mind on defense. Shurmur's coaching style was revered by peers in his profession for defensive genius. For example, in 1992 with the Cardinals, Shurmur had to devise a plan when two linebackers were injured. He developed a "Big Nickel" defense, that used five defensive backs close enough to the line of scrimmage to rush the passer or drop back into coverage.^[1]"

So wouldn't that be a 4-2-5 defense?

@tiamat63 said:

The Shmuck is a 3-2-5? 

Fritz Shurmur authored that configuration pretty much.. Used it back when He was DC at LA Rams in the 80's . Then famed USC coach John Robinson was the head coach. It's another spin off of Bill Arnspargers (Bend , but don't Break) Defense.

"

NFL coaching career

From 1975 to 1998, Shurmur was a defensive coach in the National Football League. He coached for the Detroit Lions, New England Patriots, Los Angeles Rams, Arizona Cardinals, Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks. For nineteen of those years he was a defensive coordinator.^[1]

Shurmur became defensive coordinator for the Green Bay Packers in 1994. In 1997, the Packers won Super Bowl XXXI over the New England Patriots. Shurmur left Green Bay in 1999 to be defensive coordinator with the Seahawks when Mike Holmgren accepted the dual roles of head coach and general manager with Seattle. Shurmur died of liver cancer before he could coach his first game with Seattle.

Throughout his coaching career, Shurmur was widely known as an innovative mind on defense. Shurmur's coaching style was revered by peers in his profession for defensive genius. For example, in 1992 with the Cardinals, Shurmur had to devise a plan when two linebackers were injured. He developed a "Big Nickel" defense, that used five defensive backs close enough to the line of scrimmage to rush the passer or drop back into coverage.^[1]"

@sd_tom said:

Hopefully Howard Wilson comes back and plays well.  I think they'll get Fitzpatrick at #4,  and that will help the secondary big time. 

Collins too. 

And maybe an FA as well.

Collins too. 

@dutch-oven said:

3 DLinemen, 2 Linebackers, 5 Defensive backs, and Peppers in another area code...

Ahhh... so deep center field we don't even count him. I get it.  

@tiamat63 said:

The Shmuck is a 3-2-5? 

3 DLinemen, 2 Linebackers, 5 Defensive backs, and Peppers in another area code...

@nickers said:

Am I the only one that notices that Meder.. Despite the defense and the coverage seems to adapt well  when called upon?.. For a guy who is not particularly special in any one particular area.. The kid works his tail off and makes plays in almost belichickian fashion if that makes any sense. It doesnt matter if its 3-4 ,4-3  , 3-2-5,, whatever the scheme.. He excels within his window of talent.

The Shmuck is a 3-2-5? 

@flugel said:

In fairness, there was a TON of inexperience with Coley, Ogunjobi, Brantley, Peppers and others.  That said, Coley is a beast in Williams' system while he was undrafted out of another system.  Ogunjobi came from a football program that very infrequently equips the NFL with starters - and yet we're talking about him in a positive way too.  Before we lost Meder to injury - PFF had 3 of our defensive line ranked in the top 6 against the run.  We lost 2 of those guys to injury (Ogbah and Meder) shortly thereafter.  As much as a team coming off 1 -15 football couldn't afford to lose the #1 and #4 ranked guys against the run - we're speaking very highly of DTs stepping up in the rotation regardless of their inexperience. In the process, our DT tandems were badass enough to keep Schobert blocker-free enough to lead the NFL in tackles to earm a Pro Bowl alternate honor. I don't see that as a bad reflection of Gregg Williams at all.

Gregg Williams has been a DC for the following productive Safeties in the NFL - Malcolm Jenkins (on a position change from Corner) as a rookie for the Superbowl Champion Saints, Sean Taylor in Washington, Blaine Bishop for the Super-Bowl Runner-up Titans to the Rams in 99, and I think Peppers was the only one he exercised extreme caution with (which could have been since he was used way more like an extra LBer at Missedagain).  And I'm willing to bet all those teams had WAY better/more talented corners than we relied on in 2017.  Having said that, Williams brought Peppers up closer to the line of scrimmage the last game vrs Pittsburgh and he had an INT, Sack and a big day (easily the closest he looked all season to the guy he was in college).  I think we'll see more of that especially if we improve our talent and depth at corner.   I'm not a big fan of Jamar Taylor at all - we overpaid a guy Miami completely gave up on.  While I LIKE how McCourtey played before his ankle injury - his 31 years of age prevented him from healing just as much as coming back too soon from injury did. We HAVE to improve our corners if we ever want to compete against the Antonio Browns, AJ greens and JuJu Smith-Schusters of the division.

Am I the only one that notices that Meder.. Despite the defense and the coverage seems to adapt well  when called upon?.. For a guy who is not particularly special in any one particular area.. The kid works his tail off and makes plays in almost belichickian fashion if that makes any sense. It doesnt matter if its 3-4 ,4-3  , 3-2-5,, whatever the scheme.. He excels within his window of talent.

@tiamat63 said:

                 It's almost like "nobody" saw that coming.  

What also hurt was the fact we essentially got nothing out of Peppers on special teams either. I know many fans thought, "Well, he's learning a new position, but at least he'll be awesome on special teams and we'll get a few game-changing plays from him." Yeah....not so much. I remember some people saying he'd flip the field, cause punters to kick it out of bounds, and blah blah blah. He's got so much to prove to me that it ain't funny, and Gregg does too. Somebody mentioned Peppers played his best game during the last match with the Steelers. Well, why did it take Gregg so long to move him closer? Anyway, he was a rookie and gets a bit of slack, but that slack is now gone. Time to show up when it matters, kid. 

@texasag1969 said:

FIFY

OH NO YOU DIT'NT!    

@flugel said:

That ain't Kool-Aid man. We interrupt this reply with a 4th cup of turbo-caffeinated coffee flavored Kool-Aid. 

FIFY

@jiggins7919 said:

 I have to admit, I'm worried about Peppers. I realize he was a rookie and was learning all new stuff, but he certainly didn't have the look of an impact player to me. Not on defense or special teams. 

                 It's almost like "nobody" saw that coming.  

@flugel said:

In fairness, there was a TON of inexperience with Coley, Ogunjobi, Brantley, Peppers and others.  That said, Coley is a beast in Williams' system while he was undrafted out of another system.  Ogunjobi came from a football program that very infrequently equips the NFL with starters - and yet we're talking about him in a positive way too.  Before we lost Meder to injury - PFF had 3 of our defensive line ranked in the top 6 against the run.  We lost 2 of those guys to injury (Ogbah and Meder) shortly thereafter.  As much as a team coming off 1 -15 football couldn't afford to lose the #1 and #4 ranked guys against the run - we're speaking very highly of DTs stepping up in the rotation regardless of their inexperience. In the process, our DT tandems were badass enough to keep Schobert blocker-free enough to lead the NFL in tackles to earm a Pro Bowl alternate honor. I don't see that as a bad reflection of Gregg Williams at all.

Gregg Williams has been a DC for the following productive Safeties in the NFL - Malcolm Jenkins (on a position change from Corner) as a rookie for the Superbowl Champion Saints, Sean Taylor in Washington, Blaine Bishop for the Super-Bowl Runner-up Titans to the Rams in 99, and I think Peppers was the only one he exercised extreme caution with (which could have been since he was used way more like an extra LBer at Missedagain).  And I'm willing to bet all those teams had WAY better/more talented corners than we relied on in 2017.  Having said that, Williams brought Peppers up closer to the line of scrimmage the last game vrs Pittsburgh and he had an INT, Sack and a big day (easily the closest he looked all season to the guy he was in college).  I think we'll see more of that especially if we improve our talent and depth at corner.   I'm not a big fan of Jamar Taylor at all - we overpaid a guy Miami completely gave up on.  While I LIKE how McCourtey played before his ankle injury - his 31 years of age prevented him from healing just as much as coming back too soon from injury did. We HAVE to improve our corners if we ever want to compete against the Antonio Browns, AJ greens and JuJu Smith-Schusters of the division.

Yeah, we're desperate for increased CB talent and depth. We're likely to overspend on a free agent, but that's fine. Money is the one thing that we actually HAVE at the moment, so if we come away from free agency with a starting CB that we had to pay too much for, I'm fine with it. We'll also have to draft one early, most likely with one of our 2nd rounders. Additionally, we'll have to address free safety both in the draft AND free agency because we literally don't have one on our roster. We had that no-name kid for the last two games or so who gave up a TD, but I'm not sure he'll be back. 

There are a few nice names that are anticipated being available for free agency, and there will likely be a few more when roster bonuses are given out and teams make those difficult decisions. I have to admit, I'm worried about Peppers. I realize he was a rookie and was learning all new stuff, but he certainly didn't have the look of an impact player to me. Not on defense or special teams. 

@texasag1969 said:

And to think we aren't even 4-0 preseason and late August yet. We haven't even drafted and the Browns Kool-Aid is flowing strong again already.

That ain't Kool-Aid man. It's more than colored sugar water. It's 6 draft picks in the 1st 108 selections + the most money to spend in FA + getting some of our best run-defenders back healthy + plus more experienced younger players returning +..... We interrupt this reply with a 4th cup of turbo-caffeinated coffee.