@tour2ma said:

Obviously Greg Cosell is a very smart man...

Simplest way to put it is that Rosen has the highest floor and a ceiling that is indistinguishable from any of the other top prospects. That's why he is IMO the clear pick. I wish I thought we were going to take him #1 overall.

After some gap follows Mayfield on my QB Board. Football-wise I liked everything he showed on tape except an ability to go thru progressions. Just saw a lot of pre-snap determining where he was going to look and he stayed locked on that choice until it either came open or it was time to bail out of the pocket. I think this is going to be our choice.

Considering Darnold in the top half of Round 1 is a joke. Darnold is so mechanically flawed.

Allen? Dumb as a bag of rocks. A perfect choice at #22...

Tour- if Rosen didn't already have two concussions, he'd be at the top of my board also. You probably know I've been sold on Mayfield as Brees II for a long time...  

@sissyboyfloyd said:

1.  Chubb

4.  Fitzpatrick/Barkley/Nelson

Now you have 2 great players, no worries, no pressure, just huge improvement to your team.  No concern that you might have made wrong choice and struck out again with top picks.  You go home and sleep well at end of Day 1 of the draft.

Take best QB out of Rudolph, Jackson, White, Falk, Lauletta, and let them learn behind your starter.  If they fail to materialize, you repeat process in a year or two, while building the very best team based on continuing taking BPA with every pick, instead of gambling on question mark QBs.  Use you 2nd or 3rd round picks to gamble on QBs, not high first rounders on the likes in this draft.  None of these top 4 would be considered top picks in any other year in my opinion.  As pointed out already, the good starting QBs along with OL, RB, WR can all be had in 2nd-4th rounds.

We've been down this road before. Quinn, Weeden, Manziel, Kizer, Frye, Kessler were "gambles" that got us nowhere. So you improve enough with your top prospects- and your bargain basement QBs busts- you're not in the position to take a top guy anymore. I think this is the year Dorsey is going to swing for the fences- the Bengals busted for years with guys like Dave Kingler, Jeff Blake, and Akilli Smith- until they got it right with Carson Palmer- I expect the Browns to do the same. No "sure" things Chubb could be another Courtney Brown. Barkley could be another Richardson. 

@canton-dawg said:

Same here.

I wanted Rosen at #1 until I found out about the concussions.

Now, I'm all in on Baker Mayfield at #1.

I've got Mayfield as my fave this week .

FWIW, all of the top QBs have things to be concerned about:

With Darnold, it's not just the mechanics that give me the heebees. I've seen a bunch of replays where he's holding the ball knee trying to get out of the pocket prior to defenders slapping it out of his hands. At what point does the repetitive trend = practice made perfect/instinct?   The ole saying the NFL will just coach that bad habit away at the more challenging level doesn't always unfold as promised.

Allen looks like a Foxworthy punchline when he's playing against corners and pass rushers.  That's why he threw more TD passes at the Combine than he did his entire 2017 season.   But hold on a second - can you believe HE LOVES FOOTBALL?  That changes everything   Now, the same John Elway that sandwiched in excessive adoration for Paxton Lynch in between falling for Brock Osweiler twice - is feeling some groinal warming for thos 1 QB that LOVES football. If we combined Brandon Weeden's brain with Josh Allen's we'd have a sum of 3 brain cells. Now for the bad news, 2's company - 3's a crowd.  Marijuana is legal in Colorado and John Elway has been smoking it in the 2018 version of Rocky Mountain High.  So far, Peyton Manning is the only QB Elway got right. 

Rosen has a lot of great attributes for a QB like IQ in particular as well as the ideal mechanics and other assets Cosell spoke highly of.  That said, the concussion volume doesn't go away and I worry about his durability when I look at how skinny his upper body is. I've moved him ahead of Darnold and just behind Mayfield.

Mayfield doesn't move like Russell Wilson at all IMO.  His elusiveness is from a great pocket presence that comes from his pre-snap vision/intellect.  BUT, the NFL has a way of challenging QBs his height.  People tend to forget nothing came easy to Drew Brees in his 1st 3 NFL seasons or SD wouldn't have drafted a QB 1st overall heading into his 4th year.  Good thing Philip Rivers held out the length of training camp or Brees might not have made his 1st Pro Bowl with a 12-4 record in 2004. I remember the concern was how good he'd see taking snaps from Center.  Speaking of 2004, SD finally drafted a shot gun Center Nick Hardwick from Purdue (same program Brees played in) and Brees looked way more comfortable with his pre-snap reads.  Just my opinion but I think that was the biggest difference maker. I think we can do something similar for Baker if necessary.

@sissyboyfloyd said:

1.  Chubb

4.  Fitzpatrick/Barkley/Nelson

Now you have 2 great players, no worries, no pressure, just huge improvement to your team.  No concern that you might have made wrong choice and struck out again with top picks.  You go home and sleep well at end of Day 1 of the draft.

Take best QB out of Rudolph, Jackson, White, Falk, Lauletta, and let them learn behind your starter.  If they fail to materialize, you repeat process in a year or two, while building the very best team based on continuing taking BPA with every pick, instead of gambling on question mark QBs.  Use you 2nd or 3rd round picks to gamble on QBs, not high first rounders on the likes in this draft.  None of these top 4 would be considered top picks in any other year in my opinion.  As pointed out already, the good starting QBs along with OL, RB, WR can all be had in 2nd-4th rounds.

As much as you would think so....this is NOT outside the realm of possibility.....though the Browns would be skewered...for...again, not getting their perceived franchise QBOTF.

4.  Fitzpatrick/Barkley/Nelson

Now you have 2 great players, no worries, no pressure, just huge improvement to your team.  No concern that you might have made wrong choice and struck out again with top picks.  You go home and sleep well at end of Day 1 of the draft.

Take best QB out of Rudolph, Jackson, White, Falk, Lauletta, and let them learn behind your starter.  If they fail to materialize, you repeat process in a year or two, while building the very best team based on continuing taking BPA with every pick, instead of gambling on question mark QBs.  Use you 2nd or 3rd round picks to gamble on QBs, not high first rounders on the likes in this draft.  None of these top 4 would be considered top picks in any other year in my opinion.  As pointed out already, the good starting QBs along with OL, RB, WR can all be had in 2nd-4th rounds.

2005  Best QB was the 2d taken with pick #24....Rodgers   #1 OK.....Alex Smith...but not the best

2006 Best QB take was the 3rd one taken: Jay Cutler...if you call him good.   Better than Vince Young and Matt Leinert taken over him anyway

2007....Not a decent QB taken at all that year.   But 6 were taken in rounds 1-3  (Russell/Quinn/Kolb/Beck etc.)

2008  This was one year when the top two QBs taken turned out to be the best:   Matt Ryan #3  Flacco #18

2009  This was a year when the Top taken was the best:  Stafford (over the likes of Mark Sanchez and Josh Freeman)

2010  This year was a year when the Top QB take was the best....but he has NOT been that good:    Sam Bradford. (Tebow/Clausen/McCoy next ones picked)

2011  Best was taken #1...Newton.  But...second rounders Dalton and Kaepernik  much better than 1st rounders like Locker, Gabbert, Ponder.  Even 6th rounder Tyrod Taylor better.

2012 This is a year where the #1 QB taken could arguably be said to be the best....or, there is a counter argument.   Luck #1....but note, the next taken: RGII, Tannehill, Weeden, Osweiler.....all surpassed by guys taken below them:   Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Kurt Cousins.

2013  Another shite class for QBs....only 3 taken in first 3 rounds...and none any good:  EJ Manual, Geno Smith, Mike Glennon  Nobody after that. (unless you include Landry Jones)

2014 Semi-close call:  Bortles top QB taken with #3 pick.....But 2d rounders   Derek Carr and Jimmy G.....by many now considered better.  Certainly better than Johnny Fuhucking Football and Teddy Twatwater to date.  And McCarron taken in round 5...but who knows if he is any good.

2015  The Top two picks were Winston and Mariota....and they to date are the best of this class

2016  Actually....the 8th   QB taken has had the best career numbers so far.  Dak Prescott.    Goff and Wentz though did some catching up in their sophomore years.  Who knows about the future.  Dak though looking far better than the likes of Cody Kessler,  Connor Cook, Christian Hackenberg, Paxton Lynch, Jacoby Brissett....all taken above him.

2017   For what its worth....Mitch Trubisky DID have the best final numbers of all rookie QBs.    But, of course, Watson only played in 7 games....and would have almost certainly been the best.   But...HEY.....Kizer DID have the most yards passing of all rookie QBs..by a wide margin actually.  But, he also threw as many interceptions just about as the rest of the rookie QB class combined.   Watson threw for 19 TDs in 7 games....Kizer threw 11 in 15 games. 

So...bottom line.....likely in far less than half the years has the Top QB drafted turned out to be the best.  Often as not it has been someone taken not in round 1.

@tour2ma said:

Have you tried Genko Biloba? Seriously... it's like this every year. It's just that this year there are four names in the debate... five if you count Gip's misguided obsession with Mason Rudolph.

As for my comment on Allen. That was the word coming out of the White Board sessions at the Combine.

You are the misguided one of you think it is an obsession.   All I have said is that his college numbers/stats are as good or better than the others sve Mayfield....and that he could be in the mix to actually turn out to be one of the better QBs to come out of this class in the long run.

It is far less than your obsession with Rosen.......or Cal's  obsession with Allen/hate for Rosen....or certainly PoGs obsession with Barkley. 

@mjp28 said:

I've noticed more of this "my guy is better than your guy" stuff this year than in any year I can remember. 

And two special awards this year 1. Mr. Irrelevant and 2. Mr. 22, d'oh sorry about that.   

Have you tried Genko Biloba? Seriously... it's like this every year. It's just that this year there are four names in the debate... five if you count Gip's misguided obsession with Mason Rudolph.

As for my comment on Allen. That was the word coming out of the White Board sessions at the Combine.

@tour2ma said:

Obviously Greg Cosell is a very smart man...

Simplest way to put it is that Rosen has the highest floor and a ceiling that is indistinguishable from any of the other top prospects. That's why he is IMO the clear pick. I wish I thought we were going to take him #1 overall.

After some gap follows Mayfield on my QB Board. Football-wise I liked everything he showed on tape except an ability to go thru progressions. Just saw a lot of pre-snap determining where he was going to look and he stayed locked on that choice until it either came open or it was time to bail out of the pocket. I think this is going to be our choice.

Considering Darnold in the top half of Round 1 is a joke. Darnold is so mechanically flawed.

Allen? Dumb as a bag of rocks. A perfect choice at #22...

I've noticed more of this "my guy is better than your guy" stuff this year than in any year I can remember. 

And two special awards this year 1. Mr. Irrelevant and 2. Mr. 22, d'oh sorry about that.   

@calfoxwc said:

If Denver gets Allen, he will go on to become ELWAY 2.0. 

I know Tim Tebow and Paxton Lynch really set the NFL on fire. 

@flugel said:

Here's a link to a 13 minute video where Nathan Zegura gets Greg Cosell to break down the top rated QBs headed for the 2018 draft from www.clevelandbrowns.com:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Greg-Cosell-breaks-down-QBs-in-the-2018-draft-class/e5e7dc40-a2e5-485b-bb4a-5afeff9829ff

I like to hear to what he's looking for in particular.  And somewhere around the 12 minute 50 sec mark or so - he reveals who he would take if pressed to do so. If you watch it, I'm interested in hearing what you thought or who you might be interested in (and you can do a 1A and 1B).

Obviously Greg Cosell is a very smart man...

Simplest way to put it is that Rosen has the highest floor and a ceiling that is indistinguishable from any of the other top prospects. That's why he is IMO the clear pick. I wish I thought we were going to take him #1 overall.

After some gap follows Mayfield on my QB Board. Football-wise I liked everything he showed on tape except an ability to go thru progressions. Just saw a lot of pre-snap determining where he was going to look and he stayed locked on that choice until it either came open or it was time to bail out of the pocket. I think this is going to be our choice.

Considering Darnold in the top half of Round 1 is a joke. Darnold is so mechanically flawed.

Allen? Dumb as a bag of rocks. A perfect choice at #22...

I don't think I am always right.....it just happens to turn out that way!!

Denver unlikely to go after 

@the-gipper said:

It wasn't such a noodle are that he couldn't get the following numbers over 18 years out of it:

I meant watson.  That was the knock on him in the draft.  

@the-gipper said:

blah blah sissy great big ego, blah, judge pudge, blah.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-bradley-chubb-tops-priscos-pre-combine-board/

2018 NFL Draft Prospect Rankings: Bradley Chubb tops Prisco's pre-combine board

The top-ranked quarterback is Wyoming's Josh Allen at No. 5 with UCLA's Josh Rosen right behind at No. 6. USC's Sam Darnold is 10th with Oklahoma's Baker Mayfield at No. 15. Two other quarterbacks -- Oklahoma State's Mason Rudolph and Louisville's Lamar Jackson -- just missed the top 32. 

***************************************************************************

    IOW, Gipper , it's easy to be wrong. Most all of us will be. That's the way it goes. You just think you are always right. A LOT of "experts" are going to be wrong, that is how it is every year. If Denver gets Allen, he will go on to be ELWAY 2.0.

@sd_tom said:

don't forget his low velocity noodle arm. 

It wasn't such a noodle are that he couldn't get the following numbers over 18 years out of it:

@the-gipper said:

What do you mean....he is just the Black Tarkenton, remember?   With all of Tarkenton's speed and athleticism?    (actually...Tark DID have a lot of speed and athleticism)

don't forget his low velocity noodle arm. 

@sd_tom said:

Watson is 6'3, but I meant most QB's didn't have speed/athletic ability like that.   Or at least it's more common now. 

What do you mean....he is just the Black Tarkenton, remember?   With all of Tarkenton's speed and athleticism?    (actually...Tark DID have a lot of speed and athleticism)

@the-gipper said:

  I don't think DeShaun Watson is  all that big. is he?   But certainly there were some big QBs.  Big enough.   Bradshaw was 6'3.  Fouts 6'3. Stabler was 6'3.   Staubach was 6'3.   Even bad QBs could be that big:  Mike Phipps was 6'3. 

But many were between 6'0 and 6'2.  Namath, Greise, Starr, Tarkenton, Unitas,  Dawson, Jurgenson, 

So...like I said,  QBs have gotten taller on average. probably by about an inch.   Average today may be 6'3.  Some shorter, some taller.  There were  a couple of tall guys in the 60s/70s:    Sonny Gibbs was 6'7...but he only lasted like one year with the Lions.

Frank Patrick played from 1970-1972....but made no starts.  

So....QBs that tall then were no good......and that has not really changed, has it?    Dan McGwire  6'8   no good.   Osweiler, Lynch, Ryan Mallet.....each 6'7 suck.

I think, perhaps, the ONLY good QB over like 6'5 has been the 6'6 Joe Flacco.   Derek Anderson is 6'6....but he had only 1 good year.  Marc Wilson was not too bad....but not to good either.    Jamarcus Russell....Scott Mitchell?   Surely not.

So, even now it seems there is a maximum of generally 6'5 on the efficacy of QBs.

Watson is 6'3, but I meant most QB's didn't have speed/athletic ability like that.   Or at least it's more common now. 

@sd_tom said:

There definitely weren't QB's like big Ben or Deshaun Watson, or Carson Wentz back then.  But I guess you can only get so much bigger and faster within a position like LB and lineman.   Seems like the TEs are much different now because of all the basketball players coming into the league.  Wr seem way bigger now.  

I'm in my early 40's,  so that was before my time.  

  I don't think DeShaun Watson is  all that big. is he?   But certainly there were some big QBs.  Big enough.   Bradshaw was 6'3.  Fouts 6'3. Stabler was 6'3.   Staubach was 6'3.   Even bad QBs could be that big:  Mike Phipps was 6'3. 

But many were between 6'0 and 6'2.  Namath, Greise, Starr, Tarkenton, Unitas,  Dawson, Jurgenson, 

So...like I said,  QBs have gotten taller on average. probably by about an inch.   Average today may be 6'3.  Some shorter, some taller.  There were  a couple of tall guys in the 60s/70s:    Sonny Gibbs was 6'7...but he only lasted like one year with the Lions.

Frank Patrick played from 1970-1972....but made no starts.  

So....QBs that tall then were no good......and that has not really changed, has it?    Dan McGwire  6'8   no good.   Osweiler, Lynch, Ryan Mallet.....each 6'7 suck.

I think, perhaps, the ONLY good QB over like 6'5 has been the 6'6 Joe Flacco.   Derek Anderson is 6'6....but he had only 1 good year.  Marc Wilson was not too bad....but not to good either.    Jamarcus Russell....Scott Mitchell?   Surely not.

So, even now it seems there is a maximum of generally 6'5 on the efficacy of QBs.

@the-gipper said:

No...they weren't.   The ONLY positions back then that were smaller than those that play today are the interior OL....and the interior DL.

DEs, MLBs,  OLBs etc....pretty much played with the same size, speed as players do today. 

It is a COMPLETE myth that players now overall are bigger, faster.  ONLY the two that I mentioned.....OL, interior DL have gotten bigger...plus QBs are a bit taller and heavier. 

JJ Watt and Mean Joe Greene were about the same size:  6'4  280.  Deacon Jones DE may have been just a bit more slim:    6'5 275.

But DTs today probably run normally in the 300 lb range....unless you get a Shelton who pushed 330.  Most DTs then were probably more like 270-275.  But, as noted, the OL ran about that same weight...where today they have that extra 25 lbs on them. 

I would wager that if the combine were done then....you would find the speeds of players have not drastically changed.   I doubt that hardly any OL back then would have done as poorly as Orlando Brown Jr. 

There definitely weren't QB's like big Ben or Deshaun Watson, or Carson Wentz back then.  But I guess you can only get so much bigger and faster within a position like LB and lineman.   Seems like the TEs are much different now because of all the basketball players coming into the league.  Wr seem way bigger now.  

I'm in my early 40's,  so that was before my time.  

@calfoxwc said:

well. one of us is looking at it bass-ackwards, and you are the judge. lol

Yes...one of us is.

  To sign the ol, I think it means:

1. Not a great draft for ot at all. Don't want to draft OG's if they can help it.

What has that got to do with which QB they would take?

2. They really want to run the ball and protect on qb rollouts .

What has that got to do with which QB they would take?

3. They signed Taylor - a rollout qb, who really is great at ball security...and they have the OC that likes to see a qb be mobile.

So, I think it isn't rosen on the mobility, and I think it isn't darnold now, because of the ball security.

Yet....complete lack of accuracy trumps all that.  

We'll see how it goes.

Its OK...you are entitled to be wrong.  Based on all evidence of your presence on these boards, you usually are....but that is another matter.

@the-gipper said:

Actually....I believe those are the two guys we have eliminated from consideration.

It will be Darnold or Rosen

well. one of us is looking at it bass-ackwards, and you are the judge. lol

  To sign the ol, I think it means:

1. Not a great draft for ot at all. Don't want to draft OG's if they can help it.

2. They really want to run the ball and protect on qb rollouts .

3. They signed Taylor - a rollout qb, who really is great at ball security...and they have the OC that likes to see a qb be mobile.

So, I think it isn't rosen on the mobility, and I think it isn't darnold now, because of the ball security.

We'll see how it goes.

@sd_tom said:

Duly noted.  But weren't guys like that more physical outliers than the norm back then? All positions are bigger and faster then they used to be.  

No...they weren't.   The ONLY positions back then that were smaller than those that play today are the interior OL....and the interior DL.

DEs, MLBs,  OLBs etc....pretty much played with the same size, speed as players do today. 

It is a COMPLETE myth that players now overall are bigger, faster.  ONLY the two that I mentioned.....OL, interior DL have gotten bigger...plus QBs are a bit taller and heavier. 

JJ Watt and Mean Joe Greene were about the same size:  6'4  280.  Deacon Jones DE may have been just a bit more slim:    6'5 275.

But DTs today probably run normally in the 300 lb range....unless you get a Shelton who pushed 330.  Most DTs then were probably more like 270-275.  But, as noted, the OL ran about that same weight...where today they have that extra 25 lbs on them. 

I would wager that if the combine were done then....you would find the speeds of players have not drastically changed.   I doubt that hardly any OL back then would have done as poorly as Orlando Brown Jr. 

@the-gipper said:

Actually...yes, he did.   He had mean Joe Greene....Jack Lambert, Robert Brazile, Ted Hendricks....Jack Ham, Andre Tippet...and others...those just in the AFC. 

Duly noted.  But weren't guys like that more physical outliers than the norm back then? All positions are bigger and faster then they used to be.  

@sd_tom said:

Sipe didn't have guys like JJ watt and Joey bosa and myles Garrett lined up across from him either.  

Actually...yes, he did.   He had mean Joe Greene....Jack Lambert, Robert Brazile, Ted Hendricks....Jack Ham, Andre Tippet...and others...those just in the AFC.