@westside-steve said:

What you think has no bearing. As I recall you and some others thought that McCarron would not accept a bridge deal. What I think doesn't really matter either but I think AJ might well have been a longer-term solution than some.

Not to mention the fact that most pundits and many here thought that Kizer showed great strides as the season came to an end.

WSS

Right...What you think doesn't matter either.   And I don't think that McCarron believes he has accepted a "bridge deal" with the Bills. What I think I do know is that AJ would NOT have been told really that he had any chance of being the long term solution here.  Thus, I think there was a mutual decision by he and by the Browns to not engage in serious contract talks.

As to your last sentence.....I am not one of those pundits.  I did not think Kizer showed any progress...in fact, I thought he regressed.   BUT....I thought perhaps it was a matter of terrible coaching that may have been his problem....thus, I thought maybe he could be give some benefit of the doubt.  Apparently our FO didn't see it that way at all. 

Maybe Hue had some...or a lot of say into the decision to give up on Kizer.  Maybe he saw what I saw...no progress.   But...of course, Hue likely put the blame for that on the player.....not on himself....where perhaps a lot of us think that is where it should be shouldered.  But Hue has not proven to be a kind of a "take responsibility" kind of guy.  

He still has ducked his jump in Effing Lake Erie.....feckless effer.

In 2010...you have Colt McCoy.   A starter here for a couple of years, no? Not particularly successful....as 7-18 attests to.    HOpefully TT could come away with a better than .280 win pct.  (If the Browns could win  5 of 16 games he starts that would happen)

There IS hope that Kirksey,  Duke, Nassib, Ogunjobi, Coleman could have much more useful careers than their  3rd round predecessors.  Some may already have. 

@the-gipper said:

Worth is in the eye of the beholder.   They flushed him because the role that he expected to play for them was:  Long term starting QB.   That is NOT the role we expect of him..or the role that he expects to play here really........his role here is:   temporary starter, possible long term backup (depending on contract)....tutor/mentor. 

I think he would have balked at doing that same role in Buff.    So...the parting may have been mutual...since it is clear that Buffalo wants a younger long term guy. 

What you think has no bearing. As I recall you and some others thought that McCarron would not accept a bridge deal. What I think doesn't really matter either but I think AJ might well have been a longer-term solution than some.

Not to mention the fact that most pundits and many here thought that Kizer showed great strides as the season came to an end.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Aren't you the guy who drove the Kizer bandwagon? How many games did he win and how many games did Johnny win? One more time if Taylor was worth anything Buffalo, who desperately needs a quarterback, would not have flushed him at their first opportunity.

WSS

Worth is in the eye of the beholder.   They flushed him because the role that he expected to play for them was:  Long term starting QB.   That is NOT the role we expect of him..or the role that he expects to play here really........his role here is:   temporary starter, possible long term backup (depending on contract)....tutor/mentor. 

I think he would have balked at doing that same role in Buff.    So...the parting may have been mutual...since it is clear that Buffalo wants a younger long term guy. 

@westside-steve said:

As you probably know, or should know if you are not just bickering, I'm not talking about a quarterback at 65 I'm talking about plenty of other good quality useful players that come at the bottom of the 2nd or the top of the third round.

WSS

Well.....the hope/expectation is that a QB that has a career 23-20 record as a starter will constitute a good, useful player.  No guarantees of course...but better chances than that 3rd round draft pick.

@westside-steve said:

Aren't you the guy who drove the Kizer bandwagon? How many games did he win and how many games did Johnny win? One more time if Taylor was worth anything Buffalo, who desperately needs a quarterback, would not have flushed him at their first opportunity.

WSS

Ya, I thought Kizer was a good draft prospect, when he didn't perform I moved on.

Taylor just started for three years and performed well. Made a Pro Bowl. Made the playoffs. Made plays. Didn't turn the ball over.

He's solid. Which is way better than we had last year. Or the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that ...

Ya, Buffalo was ready to move on from him. We are drafting a QB #1 overall, so we borrowed him for a 3rd round draft pick as a major upgrade to our QB room.

It all seems smart to me. But good luck to A.J. If Taylor was a bum I'm sure he'll have no problem improving that 9-7 record by at least a couple games and holding on to that job regardless of who they draft ... we'll see.

Zombo

Zombo said:

Taylor is not a bum as his performance the past three years prove.

McCarron is exactly what Taylor was three years ago before he he got his shot in Buffalo ... unproven.

If McCarron does better with his opportunity ... winning record, playoff appearance, 92.5 Rating, ... good for him.

Not going to lose one day's sleep for trading a 3rd round pick for a proven veteran QB to bridge us to a draft pick.

Your idea of a "bum" is peculiar. Aren't you the guy that held out hope for Johnny long past his usefelness as a Cleveland Brown?

Zombo

Aren't you the guy who drove the Kizer bandwagon? How many games did he win and how many games did Johnny win? One more time if Taylor was worth anything Buffalo, who desperately needs a quarterback, would not have flushed him at their first opportunity.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/31429/a-j-mccarron-should-not-be-compared-to-tyrod-taylor-in-2018

As you know I wanted McCarron and even like him in the draft.

2 years not ridiculously expensive and a bridge. So the speculation on him demanding to start long term is moot. Well not moot, just wrong. I've made it clear I think Taylor is a bum but that his experience should give him the edge over last year's version of Kizer. Of course that would count for anybody with any real experience. And I think Kizer would have been better this year with a year behind him. 

Still I think the Bills got one over on us here.

WSS

Taylor is not a bum as his performance the past three years proves.

McCarron is exactly what Taylor was three years ago before he he got his shot in Buffalo ... unproven.

If McCarron does better with his opportunity ... winning record, playoff appearance, 92.5 Rating, ... good for him.

Not going to lose one day's sleep for trading a 3rd round pick for a proven veteran QB to bridge us to a draft pick.

Your idea of a "bum" is peculiar. Aren't you the guy that held out hope for Johnny long past his usefelness as a Cleveland Brown?

Zombo

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Not really. For the last 2 years the Browns have been the worst team in the history of the league and it has not been quarterback play that has made that happen. 

WSS

Oh....I completely disagree with that.   QB play has been THE primary reason for that level of  suckitude.  (along with the HC). Not saying the rest of the team has been good...but  QB=  primary.

@westside-steve said:

Actually AJ McCarron was not the last choice of the Buffalo Bills. Tyrod Taylor was and they found a sucker to take him off their hands and throw away a very nice draft pick.

WSS

Good for them....and good for us.   \

I mean.....consider the QBs we have used 3rd round picks on:    Charlie Frye, Colt McCoy, Cody Kessler, Eric Zeier,  Mark Miller.

Fuyckin'A....consider some of the guys we have used a 1st round pick on:  Quinn, JFF, Weeden, Phipps

Here is an absolute fact:   The Browns have NOT drafted a successful QB in any round really since 1972....when they took Brian Sipe in the 13th round.

Exceptions:   Kosar....taken in the Supplemental draft....and most people would not include him....but Tim Couch was not as bad as people thought. 

NONE of them   had as much as a 3 game over .500 record.    Sipe actually only was 2 games over .500 for his career:  57-55.

So...all I am saying is that I have NO qualms about using a 3rd round pick for a guy with a 23-20 career winning record....

@westside-steve said:

Not really. For the last 2 years the Browns have been the worst team in the history of the league and it has not been quarterback play that has made that happen. 

WSS

So I guess 22 ints didn't contribute to us being the worst team in the league?

Got it...

@domcucch1994 said:

Taylor is a better "bum" than the bums we've had playing QB the last couple of years..

Not really. For the last 2 years the Browns have been the worst team in the history of the league and it has not been quarterback play that has made that happen. 

WSS

WSS

But, if you think that Kizer should have been given the opportunity to keep his starting job here, your opinion is obviously contrary to that of  Dorsey/Wolf/Highsmith/McCloughan ...since they clearly did not believe he deserved that opportunity. 

What I do know is that he was the LAST choice of all the QBs out there and the only thing left for the Bills....so they were basically stuck having to take him....or get nothing.

We do know that HE will want to be the long term starter.

The real question will be how will he react if the Bills either move up to take a QB....or get one at #12.    Either way...his plan to be a team's long term starter would be put in jeopardy by that move.