@tour2ma said:

And vice versa... whcih was my point.

Well....I don't know.  Can a QB be good without any swag?  While, yes, I think every QB has to have a lot of Chutzpah......it seems that some may appear to be somnolent, though they likely are not. 

Look at a few of the ones that have played for the Browns the last umpteen years.

@the-gipper said:

Yea, but without the latter, the former won't matter.

And vice versa... whcih was my point.

@tour2ma said:

Possibly, but Baker feels like one of those guys where the two are closely linked.

Yea, but without the latter, the former won't matter.  All the swag on earth won't make you play better if you don't have the capability.  The swag can maybe ramp up the talent a bit....but that base talent must be there.

@the-gipper said:

But it will be his talent, not his 'tude that matters.

Possibly, but Baker feels like one of those guys where the two are closely linked.

@mike-h said:

If the tude doesn't translate, and he's truly capped out, then he'll come down to earth pretty damn quickly. Let's hope neither are true.

I see the "tude" as being a bit  Namath like....or Favre-ish".    But it will be his talent, not his 'tude that matters.

@bigalow80 said:

Anyone else find it ironic that the "football guy" just took statistically and analytically the best qb in college fb at #1 DESPITE all the other analysis saying take the other guys? 

I am not sure ironic is the right word.   Perhaps logical is a better word.

@tour2ma said:

Stat monster with a football guy attytude...

Just have a feeling that he's been as good as he's ever gonna be and I'm not confident that the 'tude translates.

If the tude doesn't translate, and he's truly capped out, then he'll come down to earth pretty damn quickly. Let's hope neither are true.

@mike-h said:

Mayfield is a hybrid. I tweeted this earlier... he's right at the intersection of football guy street and data darling avenue.

Stat monster with a football guy attytude...

Just have a feeling that he's been as good as he's ever gonna be and I'm not confident that the 'tude translates.

@bigalow80 said:

Anyone else find it ironic that the "football guy" just took statistically and analytically the best qb in college fb at #1 DESPITE all the other analysis saying take the other guys? 

Mayfield is a hybrid. I tweeted this earlier... he's right at the intersection of football guy street and data darling avenue.

@bigalow80 said:

Anyone else find it ironic that the "football guy" just took statistically and analytically the best qb in college fb at #1 DESPITE all the other analysis saying take the other guys? 

Me...

@hoorta said:

There has to be a time where there's no consensus, and somebody has to make a decision.

Sorry, h., but that's just not the case.

Failing to reach consensus is a decision... one of two possible decisions. That is what it is hard for some folks to understand.

@tour2ma said:

Every keystroke continues to prove you have no idea what consensus decision making is about.

I know Tour. We're discussed it before. The concept of true consensus decision making is something that's far, far beyond the ability of normal humans being able to grasp. It takes a minimum of a Law degree from Harvard or a PhD from MIT to be able to fully understand it. There has to be a time where there's no consensus, and somebody has to make a decision. If you browbeat the dissenters into your POV, that's not consensus. Or it's three votes for Garrett, 2 for Trubisky- it's Garrett. 

@the-gipper said:

Every keystroke proves that you do not know what leadership decision making is about.  (and over 35 years of experience at it says that I certainly know what consensus decision making is about....and when it can be deployed and when it cannot.  I had to engage in both just this morning.

**Breathlessly awaiting details that will never come.**

@westside-steve said:

??

WSS

What?

@tour2ma said:

Every keystroke continues to prove you have no idea what consensus decision making is about.

Every keystroke proves that you do not know what leadership decision making is about.  (and over 35 years of experience at it says that I certainly know what consensus decision making is about....and when it can be deployed and when it cannot.  I had to engage in both just this morning.

@the-gipper said:

Well, lets see...just a personal review:    I was getting paychecks in 1976 and in 1977 for 8- months (from ACME) ..then I started law school.   Then went without for the next 9 months.  Got a Clerk job in summer 1978...and had that part time job (2 jobs) until time to take the Bar Exam in 1980.  Then went until Jan. 1984 with no paychecks.   Then got paid a small amount  for City Council...til Jan. 88.    Then went without a paycheck until  June 1991. Since then, I have been receiving small part time paychecks for being Magistrate for 3 different cities. (not all at the same time). Still get them now....but now I get SS.  That started in like just this Feb.  Will also start getting PERS here in May or June.  For purposes of that I am re-employed.  And yes, I guess you can say I am double dipping.

But those paychecks for Council/Mag. by no means paid the bills.   Only got like 2500-3000 per year.

??

WSS

@the-gipper said:

Well....see that seems that is all you got out of your profession.   I am self employed, never got paychecks....except for the small ones from my part time magistrates job.

I have had to nurture a practice to get paid, thus I have done all that civic duty shite... You know like serving as Board President for like 5 different entities. Serving on City Council, Zoning Boards...etc. etc.   You know, stuff where leadership was required to get things done....even if it meant being the sole "decider". 

Every keystroke continues to prove you have no idea what consensus decision making is about.

@westside-steve said:

Come on now, the Gipper has a decade's worth of paychecks. Well since 1976 anyway.

?

WSS

Well, lets see...just a personal review:    I was getting paychecks in 1976 and in 1977 for 8- months (from ACME) ..then I started law school.   Then went without for the next 9 months.  Got a Clerk job in summer 1978...and had that part time job (2 jobs) until time to take the Bar Exam in 1980.  Then went until Jan. 1984 with no paychecks.   Then got paid a small amount  for City Council...til Jan. 88.    Then went without a paycheck until  June 1991. Since then, I have been receiving small part time paychecks for being Magistrate for 3 different cities. (not all at the same time). Still get them now....but now I get SS.  That started in like just this Feb.  Will also start getting PERS here in May or June.  For purposes of that I am re-employed.  And yes, I guess you can say I am double dipping.

But those paychecks for Council/Mag. by no means paid the bills.   Only got like 2500-3000 per year.

@tour2ma said:

Sure, Gip... you have plaques...

All I got was a decade's worth of paychecks...

Well....see that seems that is all you got out of your profession.   I am self employed, never got paychecks....except for the small ones from my part time magistrates job.

I have had to nurture a practice to get paid, thus I have done all that civic duty shite... You know like serving as Board President for like 5 different entities. Serving on City Council, Zoning Boards...etc. etc.   You know, stuff where leadership was required to get things done....even if it meant being the sole "decider". 

@tour2ma said:

Sure, Gip... you have plaques...

All I got was a decade's worth of paychecks...

Come on now, the Gipper has a decade's worth of paychecks. Well since 1976 anyway.

?

WSS

All I got was a decade's worth of paychecks...