@flugel said:

We took our our SATs on the Saturday morning after we beat the #1 ranked team in NY state on THEIR field the night before. Do you think ANY of the guys on our team were at a peak concentration level the next day? That being the case, we all went to college regardless of what score we wore. The biggest challenge in those tests is staying AWAKE and motivated enough to finish. They don't tell you what kids will SHOW UP to classes and what kids will not NOR do they inform you who will get the best GPA's. If anything, they can lead a kid into thinking he doesn't have to study as hard as the next kid. Lucky for ME, Quinn LIKES to study the things that bore Dumb Ass. It'll make our offense better than a Gong Show. Trust me!

Unfortunately for us, Dumb Ass doesn't know the difference between the Baltimore & Cleveland jerseys. It's THAT or he thought the screen pass was designed to go to T. Suggs for a TD. Try to add the sum of TDs from the Baltimore defense in our last 3 games against them. And when he's not throwing them TD passes - he's treating an opponent like Indy to a careless fumble for a score. On a day Indy's offense couldn't score 1 TD, Mathis gave us his version of "The Chances Are" Dumb Ass would play a little Santa Claus and fumble the game away. Meanwhile DA fans would look at the final score and act like DA was just as heroic as he was when our defense confined Pittsburgh to 10 points. ANY time our defense has held an opponet to 0-13 points, your QB needs to be betetr than DA has been.

I'm being honest when I safely conclude that I have NEVER seen a QB in a Browns' jersey that threw more INTs for TDs than Derelict Anderson. I can see why we heard "No thanks" from 31 other teams. Loverboy, if only your Cupid worked for one of those teams we'd be all set.

- Tom F. (Here's 1 guy that won't buy into ANY of the training camp false positives of DA. If ONLY he looked like that right BEFORE halftime against Pittsburgh instead of throwing the backbreaking INT. I've never seen his ability to LEARN from previous blunders so it's time for someone that CAN do so)

Just give it time Tom; DA will soon be gone and we will be rid of this 'fan' whom may very well be compl made up....something to stir the pot

@lumbergh said:

Says every sports commentator that shared his GPA during the Notre Dame games they covered. I knew you wouldn't like this reality Loverboy. If the kid ain't smart - he's about as good as it gets at faking it. Dumb Ass ain't smart and he's terrible at faking he's smart so God Bless ya for trying.

We took our our SATs on the Saturday morning after we beat the #1 ranked team in NY state on THEIR field the night before. Do you think ANY of the guys on our team were at a peak concentration level the next day? That being the case, we all went to college regardless of what score we wore. The biggest challenge in those tests is staying AWAKE and motivated enough to finish. They don't tell you what kids will SHOW UP to classes and what kids will not NOR do they inform you who will get the best GPA's. If anything, they can lead a kid into thinking he doesn't have to study as hard as the next kid. Lucky for ME, Quinn LIKES to study the things that bore Dumb Ass. It'll make our offense better than a Gong Show. Trust me!

Unfortunately for us, Dumb Ass doesn't know the difference between the Baltimore & Cleveland jerseys. It's THAT or he thought the screen pass was designed to go to T. Suggs for a TD. Try to add the sum of TDs from the Baltimore defense in our last 3 games against them. And when he's not throwing them TD passes - he's treating an opponent like Indy to a careless fumble for a score. On a day Indy's offense couldn't score 1 TD, Mathis gave us his version of "The Chances Are" Dumb Ass would play a little Santa Claus and fumble the game away. Meanwhile DA fans would look at the final score and act like DA was just as heroic as he was when our defense confined Pittsburgh to 10 points. ANY time our defense has held an opponet to 0-13 points, your QB needs to be betetr than DA has been.

I'm being honest when I safely conclude that I have NEVER seen a QB in a Browns' jersey that threw more INTs for TDs than Derelict Anderson. I can see why we heard "No thanks" from 31 other teams. Loverboy, if only your Cupid worked for one of those teams we'd be all set.

- Tom F. (Here's 1 guy that won't buy into ANY of the training camp false positives of DA. If ONLY he looked like that right BEFORE halftime against Pittsburgh instead of throwing the backbreaking INT. I've never seen his ability to LEARN from previous blunders so it's time for someone that CAN do so)

AdaM said:

The truly smart ones apply themselves because they know their NFL window is very small, if there's even a crack.

I am sure there are some who do, but if they really were smart, they wouldn't coast, as they should know that even the greatest of NFL athletes only have an average 10 year career, and they will be done possibly in their mid to late 30s and that they have the rest of their lives to carry on with. So they need to develop some career skills above and beyond playing football. Perhaps they could get into High School coaching or teaching. I am sure a lot do

Also, have you noticed the plethora of Ohio State graduates that go into broadcasting? Kirk Herbstreit, Chris Carter, Eddie George, Chris Spielman, Clark Kellog, maybe even a few more are all commentators/broadcasters with ESPN or other networks.

They must have an outstanding sports communication department at OSU. Does anyone know anything else about that?

@the-gipper said:

Nevertheless, compare Greg Micheli of Mt. Union who got the Division III ESPN All American Academic athlete at QB for his 3.84 GPA in his major of Mathematics and Physics. (Do you think Tebow....or many people could get a 3.84 in Math and Physics at Mt. Union? I couldn't.)

Also note: Brian Robiskie also made the same team at WR. So, maybe the Browns have a smart WR now on their roster.

Another thing, I'm guessing the majority of these athletes just try and coast through college because their main priority is football.

The truly smart ones apply themselves because they know their NFL window is very small, if there's even a crack.

Nevertheless, compare Greg Micheli of Mt. Union who got the Division III ESPN All American Academic athlete at QB for his 3.84 GPA in his major of Mathematics and Physics. (Do you think Tebow....or many people could get a 3.84 in Math and Physics at Mt. Union? I couldn't.)

Also note: Brian Robiskie also made the same team at WR. So, maybe the Browns have a smart WR now on their roster.

• how high their normal standards are
• how much they're willing to deviate from them

As for why more star athletes don't attend Ivies, there's the exposure element Gipper brought up: that's the reason Amobi Okoye chose Louisville over Harvard. And there's the money element Spec mentioned: the Ivies don't offer athletic scholarships (all aid is need-based).

@lumbergh said:

And a moral of a related story: Brady Quinn doesn't beat anybody. Including the Detroit Lions.

Are you that stupid! D.A. did not win that game. In fact, he was 9/24 for 137yds...with ZERO TD's. Jamal Lewis won that game with his outstanding 33 carries for 163 yards. Phil Dawson won that game with kicking a 35 yarder then following that with a 49 yarder in a blizzard! The Defense won that game by not allowing the Bills to score and stopping them in the 4th quarter when they were driving. Lumnuts, the Browns could have started Tim Couch and won that game. It took virtually no effort by DA for the Browns to win this game. All he had to do was hand the ball to Lewis. DA cannot claim credit for this one!

Once again, your feeble attempts to prop up your boyfriend have been shot down. In the future, at least put forth a little effort and research your response a bit. I can't believe that even you would try to throw this game out there in defense of DA. If this is all you can produce, DA might have to impeach you as the president of his gay fan club!

I don't know if these averages include all the scholar athletes for football etc. that were admitted. I suspect they do.

(My son had a 3.76 GPA and a 32 and a 1300...but though we intitially considered that school he early on crossed it off as he was opposed to the "major sports profile" that the school had though in many other respects it fit his criteria fairly nicely.

What were Quinn's other numbers?

@lumbergh said:

No, not normally, but SAT scores alone are not the only criteria.

They obviously give weight to GPA and extracurriculars etc.

Let's just say that Brady had some "extracurriculars" that got him ahead.

My son had a 1300 SAT and a 32 ACT. But he also had some extracurriculars (non athletic) that gave him a boost.

Eagle Scout, Foreign Language scholar.

OK, being a top notch high school QB could rate up there with being an Eagle scout, no?

@inspecta said:

Those schools don't make exceptions for athletes, and the schools themselves never really valued their athletic dept like other schools have. They don't generate the kind of money the Florida's, Miami's and Texas's of the world.

So the top athletes who are also smart have to have a desire to attend these academic schools. Any QB who has a serious shot at making the NFL would willingly chose to go to an Ivy league school. They want a big school with big exposure and a good team around them to ensure success.

That's the main reason I believe the smarter athletes don't chose to go to an Ivy league school, that and the funding to attend said school just isn't there because the football scholarships don't offer full rides, and lets face it, unless your last name is Hilton or Rockefeller or Trump chances are your parents can't afford to send you to those schools.

Well, honestly, I probably only make around 50K per year, yet I am sending my son to Kenyon which is one of the 5 most expensive schools in America. Yet, bottom line it is going to cost less for me to send him there than to say Akron U. because of the grants, scholarships and endowments he is going to receive. That proves the quality of that school in taking and helping out the best students regardless of financial ability. I understand the Ivies are similar.

But of course it is still not the same as getting a full ride athletic scholarship at a big time athletic school. Those athletes parents are not going to be out of pocket at all. Plus you have no clue how many $50.00 handshakes those recruited athletes may get. My son isn't going to get any $50.00 handshakes.

@flugel said:

Says who? Quinn only got a 1030 on the SAT. That doesn't get a non-football player into Notre Dame.

@the-gipper said:

I think you make a good point about the "intellect" of the players we have faced in the likes of Elway and Plunkett and Montana etc.

I gone through this recently with fairly high achieving son who just graduated. (though NOT an athlete). In searching for colleges we were looking at highly rated academic institutions. Stanford, Notre Dame, Northwestern which you mention are among the TOP 25 ACADEMIC institutions in America and rate right up there with the Ivy League schools (Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc.), and the likes of MIT, Cal Tech, and some smaller profile (athletically) schools such as Williams, Smith, Amherst, Bowdoin, Grinnell, Pomona, Carleton, Bryn Mawr, Swarthmore, and a few Ohio schools like Oberlin, Kenyon,and Denison. (My son ended up choosing Kenyon though we looked at Notre Dame, Cornell, Oberlin).

The point being that you cannot underestimate the intellectual and academic requirements it takes to get accepted to these schools, and the likes of Stanford and Notre Dame, Duke etc. really do NOT make academic exceptions for athletes.

Sure, Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke etc. QBs can be busts in the NFL (see John Huarte and Rick Meier) but I believe they do start out with a certain advantage because of the quality of the education they received in college. Even Muck Fichigan is a top notch academic school, maybe having given the likes of Tom Brady certain advantages.

(and FYI, nearly all SEC schools are rated much poorer academically than Pac-10 or Big 10 or ACC schools...name a real quality SEC QB not named Manning in the NFL).

VERY interesting stuff Gipper! Thanks man! You definitely want a smart guy QBing the offense.

Otto Graham went to Northwestern and the SMART leadership rubbed off on the team.

I remembered reading about HOW SMART Bernie Kosar was academically back when he was in college. He led the VERY first National Championship run at that school before leading us to 3 straight Conference Championship appearances.

Elway & Plunkett were mentioned for the intelligence quotients.

Montana and Theisman were smart fellers.

Brees is intelligent. Both Mannings are smart.

Quinn was just as good at academics as he was football.

I welcome intelligence back to our QB position. We won't win until Quinn gets named starter.

- Tom F.

1. Harvard

2. Princeton

3. Yale

4. Stanford (Plunkett, Elway)

5. MIT

6. Cal Tech

7. Penn

8. Duke (Sonny Jurgenson)

9. Columbia

10. University of Chicago

11. Dartmouth

12. Northwestern (Otto Graham)

13. University of Washington in St. Louis

14. Cornell

15. John Hopkins

16. Brown

17. Rice (Frank Ryan)

18. Notre Dame (Montana, Quinn etc.)

19. Emory

20. Vanderbilt (Jay Cutler)

21. Cal-Berkely

22. Carnegie-Mellon

23. Georgetown

24. Virginia

25. Virginia

26. Michigan (Brady)

27. USC (Leinert, Palmer)

30. North Carolina

Wiconsin was 35, Illinois 40, Case 41, Penn St. 47, Texas 48, Florida 49, Miami, FLA. 51, Ohio St. 56

So you can see particularly Stanford rates up there. I mean, how many Ivy league QBs have done well in the league at any time? I don't know if you can think of any other Top notch QBs that went to these top schools.

@lumbergh said:

We scored 8 points that game, Retard.

@the-gipper said:

Flugel,

I gone through this recently with fairly high achieving son who just graduated. (though NOT an athlete).

OK, this sentence is not indicative of my Akron U. education. Just my typing skills where my brain works faster than my fingers. Of course it should say "I have gone through this recently with a fairly high achieving son who just graduated"

OOPs

I think you make a good point about the "intellect" of the players we have faced in the likes of Elway and Plunkett and Montana etc.

I gone through this recently with fairly high achieving son who just graduated. (though NOT an athlete). In searching for colleges we were looking at highly rated academic institutions. Stanford, Notre Dame, Northwestern which you mention are among the TOP 25 ACADEMIC institutions in America and rate right up there with the Ivy League schools (Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc.), and the likes of MIT, Cal Tech, and some smaller profile (athletically) schools such as Williams, Smith, Amherst, Bowdoin, Grinnell, Pomona, Carleton, Bryn Mawr, Swarthmore, and a few Ohio schools like Oberlin, Kenyon,and Denison. (My son ended up choosing Kenyon though we looked at Notre Dame, Cornell, Oberlin).

The point being that you cannot underestimate the intellectual and academic requirements it takes to get accepted to these schools, and the likes of Stanford and Notre Dame, Duke etc. really do NOT make academic exceptions for athletes.

Sure, Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke etc. QBs can be busts in the NFL (see John Huarte and Rick Meier) but I believe they do start out with a certain advantage because of the quality of the education they received in college. Even Muck Fichigan is a top notch academic school, maybe having given the likes of Tom Brady certain advantages.

(and FYI, nearly all SEC schools are rated much poorer academically than Pac-10 or Big 10 or ACC schools...name a real quality SEC QB not named Manning in the NFL).

@drunkandstoopid said:

you forgot to mention that the Browns sucked assets as a team & only won 4 games without DA in that 3 year span.

That's the Dial-an-excuse way of looking at it.

ANOTHER way of looking at it is somebody continued to throw a GOLDEN opportunity in the trash can over a 3 year period. The great ones don't look back on excuses - they talk about how much fun they had gettin it done. How else do you explain 0% interest in DA when we made him available to the other 31 teams?

I don't care WHERE Dr Kevorkian went to college - I just don't want him running our offense any more. Sorry!

- Tom F.

Every night in my dreams

I see you, I feel you

That is how I know you go on.

Far across the distance

and spaces between us

You have come to show you go on.

Near, Far,

wherever you are,

I believe that the heart does go on.

Once more, you opened the door

And you're here in my heart,

and my heart will go on and on.

Love can touch us one time

and last for a lifetime

And never let go till we're gone.

Love was when I loved you,

one true time to hold on to

In my life we'll always go on.

Near, far,

wherever you are,

I believe that the heart does go on.

Once more, you opened the door

And you're here in my heart,

and my heart will go on and on.

You're here, there's nothing I fear

And I know that my heart will go on.

We'll stay, forever this way

You are safe in my heart

and my heart will go on and on.

Tell me you don't tear up a little every time you hear this.............

@flugel said:

Like I said, we're in the AFC and Dumb Ass hasn't beaten 1 AFC team with MORE than 8 wins in ANY game he has started. You can try like Hell to dream one up but you're gonna come up short like you always do.

In 06 - DA was 0-3 in his only 3 starts.

In 07 - DA beat ZERO AFC opponents that won MORE than 8 games

In 08 - DA beat ZERO AFC teams with MORE than 8 wins

Grand Total = Zero

Moral of the story: DA doesn't beat AFC teams thinking playoffs.

- Tom F.

you forgot to mention that the Browns sucked assets as a team & only won 4 games without DA in that 3 year span.

@lumbergh said:

LOL! I rest my case. Thanks!

- Tom F.

@flugel said:

- Tom F.

I think the 2007 Buffalo Bills would beg to differ....

And a moral of a related story: Brady Quinn doesn't beat anybody. Including the Detroit Lions.

@lumbergh said:

Like I said, we're in the AFC and Dumb Ass hasn't beaten 1 AFC team with MORE than 8 wins in ANY game he has started. You can try like Hell to dream one up but you're gonna come up short like you always do.

In 06 - DA was 0-3 in his only 3 starts.

In 07 - DA beat ZERO AFC opponents that won MORE than 8 games

In 08 - DA beat ZERO AFC teams with MORE than 8 wins

Grand Total = Zero

Moral of the story: DA doesn't beat AFC teams thinking playoffs.

- Tom F.

@inspecta said:

He's got 13 Ws as a starter and another one in relief.

in a good number of those wins, the browns were favored and expected to win. So he took care of business.

Quinn passes for 2,100 yards and 12 TDs. Total. For a whole season.

It also predicts that with BQ at the helm the Browns pull off a 3-13 record in '09.