@the-gipper said:

So maybe you should just give up watching then going to football games if you're so worried about it

I'm not worried about it one bit.....just discussing fans and fan bases, besides I have a better seat at home.

Actually I've seen countless Indians games at the Ol' Muni from 1959-1980s closing and a LOT of Browns games throughout time. 

.......I kind of liked that Ol' Dump.

@mjp28 said:

2017 nfl attendance - ESPN - http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/sort/homePct

It shows the top 9 NFL teams are running at 100% plus on home attendance but with only 8 home games per year they better do well.....and what's going on with pittsburger at #26 and 91%? And yes those stats are miniscule UNLESS they keep going down......and teams lie or stretch attendance numbers! Is JAX at 95%?

The NFL is still drawing but high school and college are not doing as well live. 

So maybe you should just give up watching then going to football games if you're so worried about it

@the-gipper said:

Maybe you should provide the link on this as well.

Nevertheless....I believe these statistics are miniscule.

2017 nfl attendance - ESPN - http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/sort/homePct

It shows the top 9 NFL teams are running at 100% plus on home attendance but with only 8 home games per year they better do well.....and what's going on with pittsburger at #26 and 91%? And yes those stats are miniscule UNLESS they keep going down......and teams lie or stretch attendance numbers! Is JAX at 95%?

The NFL is still drawing but high school and college are not doing as well live. 

@mjp28 said:

And the NFL is still the big dog, only 16 games each but the bottom half in average home games filleD percentages:

Maybe you should provide the link on this as well.

Nevertheless....I believe these statistics are miniscule.

@the-gipper said:

Can you interpret this gobbledygook of numbers?

Use the link, it's really self-explanatory. Attendance keeps going down.

CONFERENCE ATTENDANCE

1. Southeastern 14 98 7,357,228 75,074 -2,433
2. Big Ten 14 95 6,291,534 66,227 76
3. Big 12 10 65 3,695,374 56,852 -679
4. Pac-12 12 79 3,918,463 49,601 -472
5. Atlantic Coast 14 93 4,505,142 48,442 -1,292

Total Home Attendance
No. School Games Attendance Average
1. Michigan 6 669,534 111,589
2. Ohio St. 7 752,464 107,495
3. Penn St. 7 746,946 106,707
4. Alabama 7 712,053 101,722
5. Texas A&M 7 691,612 98,802
6. LSU 6 591,034 98,506
7. Tennessee 7 670,454 95,779
8. Texas 6 556,667 92,778
9. Georgia 6 556,476 92,746

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ oh if it weren't for these big always SOLD OUT mega stadiums it would be worse
10. Nebraska 7 628,583 89,798
11. Florida 6 520,290 86,715
12. Oklahoma 6 519,119 86,520
13. Auburn 7 605,120 86,446
14. Clemson 7 565,412 80,773
15. Wisconsin 7 551,766 78,824
16. South Carolina 7 550,099 78,586
17. Notre Dame 7 543,354 77,622
18. Southern California 7 508,781 72,683
19. Michigan St. 7 507,398 72,485
20. Florida St. 6 425,658 70,943
21. Washington 7 481,755 68,822
22. Iowa 7 464,357 66,337

@mjp28 said:

2017 from the NCAA.....   

ALL NCAA TEAMS      http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-football-attendance
Total 
Teams Games Attendance Average
Change In 
Total
Change In 
Avg.
Home Attendance, Division I-FBS 129 810 34,107,211 42,108 -693,708 -962
FBS Neutral-Site Attendance $ 22 1,262,707 57,396 -352,480 -4,727
FBS Bowl Game Attendance # 40 1,620,253 40,506 -90,171 -1,212
NCAA DIVISION I-FBS TOTALS 129 868 36,632,625 42,203 -1,441,042 -1,409

Home Attendance, Division I-FCS 123 657 5,123,547 7,798 114,123 -17
FCS Neutral-Site Attendance ^$ 12 366,640 30,553 -83,469 -4,071
FCS Championship Game 1 19,090 19,090 4,667 4,667
NCAA DIVISION I-FCS TOTALS 123 670 5,509,277 8,223 35,321 -134

NCAA DIVISION I TOTALS 252 1,538 42,141,902 27,400 -1,405,721 -1,100
Home Attendance, NCAA Division II & 168 895 2,859,249 3,195 -168,401 -128
Division II Neutral-Site Attendance ^$ 13 111,637 8,587 -68,217 -1,405
Division II Championship Game 1 4,259 4,259 -5,317 -5,317
NCAA DIVISION II TOTALS 168 909 2,975,145 3,273 -241,935 -186
Home Attendance, NCAA Division III & 243 1,225 2,297,267 1,875 -105,606 -83
Division III Neutral-Site Attendance ^ 5 3,478 696 -5,602 -439
Division III Championship Game 1 4,971 4,971 1,495 1,495
NCAA DIVISION III TOTALS 243 1,231 2,305,716 1,873 -109,713 -81
Home Attendance, Reclassifying Teams 3 17 199,433 11,731 63,708 5,830

NATIONAL TOTALS FOR 2017 & 666 3,695 47,622,196 12,888 -1,693,661 -380 <---- all college down 1.7 million

Can you interpret this gobbledygook of numbers?

ALL NCAA TEAMS      http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-football-attendance
Total 
Teams Games Attendance Average
Change In 
Total
Change In 
Avg.
Home Attendance, Division I-FBS 129 810 34,107,211 42,108 -693,708 -962
FBS Neutral-Site Attendance $ 22 1,262,707 57,396 -352,480 -4,727
FBS Bowl Game Attendance # 40 1,620,253 40,506 -90,171 -1,212
NCAA DIVISION I-FBS TOTALS 129 868 36,632,625 42,203 -1,441,042 -1,409

Home Attendance, Division I-FCS 123 657 5,123,547 7,798 114,123 -17
FCS Neutral-Site Attendance ^$ 12 366,640 30,553 -83,469 -4,071
FCS Championship Game 1 19,090 19,090 4,667 4,667
NCAA DIVISION I-FCS TOTALS 123 670 5,509,277 8,223 35,321 -134

NCAA DIVISION I TOTALS 252 1,538 42,141,902 27,400 -1,405,721 -1,100
Home Attendance, NCAA Division II & 168 895 2,859,249 3,195 -168,401 -128
Division II Neutral-Site Attendance ^$ 13 111,637 8,587 -68,217 -1,405
Division II Championship Game 1 4,259 4,259 -5,317 -5,317
NCAA DIVISION II TOTALS 168 909 2,975,145 3,273 -241,935 -186
Home Attendance, NCAA Division III & 243 1,225 2,297,267 1,875 -105,606 -83
Division III Neutral-Site Attendance ^ 5 3,478 696 -5,602 -439
Division III Championship Game 1 4,971 4,971 1,495 1,495
NCAA DIVISION III TOTALS 243 1,231 2,305,716 1,873 -109,713 -81
Home Attendance, Reclassifying Teams 3 17 199,433 11,731 63,708 5,830

NATIONAL TOTALS FOR 2017 & 666 3,695 47,622,196 12,888 -1,693,661 -380 <---- all college down 1.7 million

@ballpeen said:

I think more and more people are going to sports bars to watch games rather than watch at home.  No way to account for that viewership.   The box Neilsen gives out to random households is no longer measuring who is watching football.  Those people are at sport bars across this country.

Some are but not nearly all though, that isn't the biggest problem out there.

There are hard numbers that American tackle football numbers are going down in participation, attendance, viewership at all levels. Some high schools are cutting back to 7/7 or discontinuing football altogether. 

Then there's the continuing CTE issues out there, moms want junior to play soccer.

@mjp28 said:

But they admit viewership is down, how does that bode for the future? Next answer? 

........oh would you sink $2,000,000,000 into a new stadium in 2018?

I think more and more people are going to sports bars to watch games rather than watch at home.  No way to account for that viewership.   The box Neilsen gives out to random households is no longer measuring who is watching football.  Those people are at sport bars across this country.

@the-gipper said:

Just trying to make things symmetrical!  

One of those super organizational neat freaks, I can understand that. 

@dutch-oven said:

You actually fall for his crap and waste your time debating a troll. 

I call him out for being a troll. 

If you can't see the difference, I can't help you. 

I can certainly see what he is.  I just don't mind it and take it as much to heart as you do. I have been engaging with Ghoolie on these boards since the old AOL days.

I give him shite, he gives me shite.  I call him a FRAK,  but I know that his flirtations with other teams is simply out of frustration for the way the Browns have been.  I would never have those flirtations, but that is just the way he rolls.  It is my team, and fuyuck all the others.  I know that he sees the quality that other teams some times play with, and he is envious of those qualities, and that is why he sometimes wants to glom on to those qualities.  He is just waiting....like all the rest of us, until the day that this Browns team becomes dominant again.  And I do not think for a moment that he will then have flirtations with other teams. 

@the-gipper said:

So, your non- response response to him is just as likely to get a response from him as if you had responded directly to him.  So, why don't you just respond to him instead of trying to use surrogates to do so.

You actually fall for his crap and waste your time debating a troll. 

I call him out for being a troll. 

If you can't see the difference, I can't help you. 

@mjp28 said:

"Some" people just get confused with facts, numbers, logic. 

Just trying to make things symmetrical!  

@the-gipper said:

Bubby Boy was 28-29 as a starter for the Steelers

TT was 22-20 as a starter for the Bills.

Bubby gave way to a younger player, Neil O'Donnell who led the Steelers to a Super Bowl.

TT may give way to a younger player....Baker Mayfield, who may one day lead the Browns to the Super Bowl?

"Some" people just get confused with facts, numbers, logic. 

TT was 22-20 as a starter for the Bills.

Bubby gave way to a younger player, Neil O'Donnell who led the Steelers to a Super Bowl.

TT may give way to a younger player....Baker Mayfield, who may one day lead the Browns to the Super Bowl?

@the-gipper said:

Maybe, But now we have 3 new QBs on the Browns roster:   Taylor, Stanton, Mayfield.   ALL of them may be better than Bubby ever was.

OK so someone started digging up this manure pile let's see what the facts show on teams primarily better than the BROWNS in the same period :

Steelrz during the "Brister Era", conclusion......eh. Nothing really to brag about. 

@dutch-oven said:

The only way to beat a troll is to ignore a troll. 

You are probably the most guilty of anyone of continually falling for Ghoolie's nonsense. Why does he rag on the Browns so hard? Because he knows he can get a reaction. Why did he all the sudden love what the Browns did this draft? Because he knew you guys would fall over yourself congratulating him for "seeing the light". Why did he do a complete 180 and think the Browns blew the draft? Because he knew you guys would be all "OH WHAT THE HELL!" The most hilarious thing about his nonsense is that some of you actually try to debate and reason with a guy WHOSE OPINIONS ARE BASED STRICTLY ON TRYING TO GET A REACTION FROM YOU. 

You want to really stick it to a troll like Ghoolie? Don't respond to him. Every Ghoolie post that gets no reaction drives him nuts. Getting a reaction out of Browns fans is his life on here. Yes, it's pathetic, and needy... But it's his sad, sad life. 

So, your non- response response to him is just as likely to get a response from him as if you had responded directly to him.  So, why don't you just respond to him instead of trying to use surrogates to do so.

@ghoolie said:

Bubby Brister was better than any QB the Browns have had since 1999.

Maybe, But now we have 3 new QBs on the Browns roster:   Taylor, Stanton, Mayfield.   ALL of them may be better than Bubby ever was.

@ghoolie said:

Football is NOT cyclical. Whatthefucck cycle explains the Patriots....Browns......................    Please, oh cement cranium, I am dying to hear this analysis. THe Steelers and Patriots both are teams with systems and philosophies in place. The Steelers indeed are not likely to just find a replacement for Ben.... HOWEVER................... they will NEVER go into the kind of "cycle" the Browns have been in since 1999. THere is nothing cyclical about this.

The Steelers draft playmakers.................. The Browns purposely have refrained from drafting playmakers

Steeler teams are vicious..........The Browns are passive, zone, prevent, pussy Zumba tackling queers.

Steeler teams are disciplined...................... The Browns remain the most undisciplined team perhaps in the history of the NFL

The Steelers are QB intense....BIG QBs................ The Browns think QBs should be homosexual sizes.

Football is cyclical because talent is cyclical.  Because Great coaches,  players...and talent evaluators  come and go.  

If football is not cyclical, then the Browns would have always been the team that appeared in  10 consecutive Championship games.  

They would have always been the team that between 1946 and 1973 had 26 winning seasons, one losing season, and 1 .500 season.

And the Steelers were the losingest team in football for a 40 year period.

So:  Paul Brown died.   Dan Rooney died.  Bill Walsh died.  Vince Lombardi died.

Otto Graham retired.   BB will retire,  Brady will retire. Ben R. will retire.  New people take over.

The new "vicious" team in the AFC anyway may be the Jacksonville Jaguars.  The Steelers defense now is a bunch of Merengue dancers.

The Montreal Canadiennes may be the greatest dynasty in North American sports history.    They have been one of the worst teams in their league the last few years.

Only someone as ignorant as a Goat would not understand this.   Or, rather, should I say, only someone as ignorant as a Steeler fan....most of whom do not have the brains of goats.

@hoorta said:

That has nothing to do with Browns quarterbacks, and it doesn't change the fact the Steelers sucked worse than the Browns before 1972. I know your BS too well, when beaten, create a diversion, or try and change the subject. 

The only way to beat a troll is to ignore a troll. 

You are probably the most guilty of anyone of continually falling for Ghoolie's nonsense. Why does he rag on the Browns so hard? Because he knows he can get a reaction. Why did he all the sudden love what the Browns did this draft? Because he knew you guys would fall over yourself congratulating him for "seeing the light". Why did he do a complete 180 and think the Browns blew the draft? Because he knew you guys would be all "OH WHAT THE HELL!" The most hilarious thing about his nonsense is that some of you actually try to debate and reason with a guy WHOSE OPINIONS ARE BASED STRICTLY ON TRYING TO GET A REACTION FROM YOU. 

You want to really stick it to a troll like Ghoolie? Don't respond to him. Every Ghoolie post that gets no reaction drives him nuts. Getting a reaction out of Browns fans is his life on here. Yes, it's pathetic, and needy... But it's his sad, sad life. 

@ghoolie said:

Bubby Brister was better than any QB the Browns have had since 1999.

That has nothing to do with Browns quarterbacks, and it doesn't change the fact the Steelers sucked worse than the Browns before 1972. I know your BS too well, when beaten, create a diversion, or try and change the subject.