@mld-woody said:

The idea that all universities are just liberal brainwashing groups is what I'm saying is ridiculous. Because of what I mentioned above, if someone wanted to use the 12:1 stat to support that claim, they'd be incorrect and that data point wouldn't be proving what they think. 

Ok, brainwashing may be a harsh term, but the lack of diversity correlates to a completely one-sided perspective.  So if you take a class that deals in non absolutes, unlike STEM courses, you could find yourself in a bubble very quickly.  That data set easily proves that.  And if I had to guess, when people say brainwashing that is more in line with what they mean.

@htownbrown said:

#3 is somewhat of a valid point, but I'm not so sure it changes much.  Business departments are the largest department of study, but this study included economics as a department it observed.  Considering an economics major and business major would have largely overlapping courses for a couple years and that many profs, especially at mid to small schools, would teach within both of those fields as they would probably be qualified to, I don't see that stat from this study being a problem and probably reasonably representative of a business department.  I believe that ratio was 4.5 to 1.

You may be right about the engineering department, but relatively speaking, outside of tech schools and the like they are one of the smallest of the major departments at almost any campus.  They will not skew the stats very far in any direction, unless you are suggesting complete conservatism in those areas which would be silly.  https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=37

With regards to natural sciences, the subcategories have changed everything.  Environmental based majors are going to be heavily liberal, obviously.  Originally I majored in Atmospheric Science, but noticed, as you suggest, a slight drift towards conservative thought when I switched to Geology and away from the 'we are killing the planet' crowd.  If I were you I would not have even mentioned this department because people are motivated into them for many different reasons, but assuming a 50/50 split on political leanings it doesn't change the overall stats very much considering the department size, relatively speaking.

12:1 may be stretching the real numbers a bit, but even 4:1 is pretty substantial and obvious.  Obvious to the point there really shouldn't be an argument about whether campuses in general are liberal or not.  I mean....Duhhhhhhh.  If you would like to debate this, please post some stats.  I'd love to read something, anything that suggests universities are even slightly conservative.

I never suggested a 50/50 split in these other departments or that liberals weren't more prominent overall. 

The idea that all universities are just liberal brainwashing groups is what I'm saying is ridiculous. Because of what I mentioned above, if someone wanted to use the 12:1 stat to support that claim, they'd be incorrect and that data point wouldn't be proving what they think. 

Also, you don't need to go to a technical school to have a sizeable engineering student body. Michigan's college of engineering was very large. 

I took Environmental Ethics for my required 300 level humanities course. I brought Wendy's and drank from a plastic water bottle. Wasn't super popular

So DT is underqualified you say?  Any thoughts on how a socialist bartender will do in office?  Can't wait to hear Nancy tell this chick to "shut up and make my raspberry martini".  Ahhhhhh......Maduro Light - Drink responsibly.  Spend irrationally.  

@mld-woody said:

A few things:

1) You're right. A professor being a Dem or Rep doesn't mean they're shoving their politics in students faces. 

2) Their study seems to indicate Independents are about even with Dems as well

3) That study DIDN'T examine business, engineering and natural sciences. All of which would skew much less Democratic

4) The article also inadvertently took a shot at OSU, which I chuckled at. 

#3 is somewhat of a valid point, but I'm not so sure it changes much.  Business departments are the largest department of study, but this study included economics as a department it observed.  Considering an economics major and business major would have largely overlapping courses for a couple years and that many profs, especially at mid to small schools, would teach within both of those fields as they would probably be qualified to, I don't see that stat from this study being a problem and probably reasonably representative of a business department.  I believe that ratio was 4.5 to 1.

You may be right about the engineering department, but relatively speaking, outside of tech schools and the like they are one of the smallest of the major departments at almost any campus.  They will not skew the stats very far in any direction, unless you are suggesting complete conservatism in those areas which would be silly.  https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=37

With regards to natural sciences, the subcategories have changed everything.  Environmental based majors are going to be heavily liberal, obviously.  Originally I majored in Atmospheric Science, but noticed, as you suggest, a slight drift towards conservative thought when I switched to Geology and away from the 'we are killing the planet' crowd.  If I were you I would not have even mentioned this department because people are motivated into them for many different reasons, but assuming a 50/50 split on political leanings it doesn't change the overall stats very much considering the department size, relatively speaking.

12:1 may be stretching the real numbers a bit, but even 4:1 is pretty substantial and obvious.  Obvious to the point there really shouldn't be an argument about whether campuses in general are liberal or not.  I mean....Duhhhhhhh.  If you would like to debate this, please post some stats.  I'd love to read something, anything that suggests universities are even slightly conservative.

@mld-woody said:

"And then I stood up and said 'God ISN'T dead'. The professor and I had a debate. I won, and proved his atheism wrong. All of the students applauded."

woodypeckerhead pecks again.

@mld-woody said:

Right. But you just can't take a study that doesn't cover all of the college landscape, and then use that data to make it seem like that 12:1 ratio exists all across college. That's all I'm getting at there.

I ain't necessarily disagreeing with you. I think its the real scumbags like Ward Churchill, and the fat bitch who was happy about Barbara Bush's death, and the fact the universities are scared to death of disciplining these people make them all sound bad.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

One other point, and this is only a guess on my part, is that many college professors might be a little bit bitter because they see High School grads and guys with some college making a great deal of money with much less formal education. I would guess law professors lean left because lawyers in general make a lot of money preying on the legal system and maybe doctor's the other way because the left has their paychecks in their sights with the promotion of free healthcare for everybody.

Can't really imagine engineer's caring very much.

WSS

You don't just back into being a professor. Not at major colleges at least. They're doing what they love. Researching, teaching, etc. Getting great perks, living in some of the best towns in the country, and doing very well. I don't think they're bitter at all. 

And you're correct, no one in engineering gave a Sheet. Way too busy to go to rallies for or against something

@westside-steve said:

Number 3 makes a great deal of sense to me. I would imagine there are plenty of professors who really don't care one way or the other. Probably the hardest left would be found among my guys in the theater Department.

WSS

Right. But you just can't take a study that doesn't cover all of the college landscape, and then use that data to make it seem like that 12:1 ratio exists all across college. That's all I'm getting at there.

Can't really imagine engineer's caring very much.

WSS

@mld-woody said:

A few things:

1) You're right. A professor being a Dem or Rep doesn't mean they're shoving their politics in students faces. 

2) Their study seems to indicate Independents are about even with Dems as well

3) That study DIDN'T examine business, engineering and natural sciences. All of which would skew much less Democratic

4) The article also inadvertently took a shot at OSU, which I chuckled at. 

Number 3 makes a great deal of sense to me. I would imagine there are plenty of professors who really don't care one way or the other. Probably the hardest left would be found among my guys in the theater Department.

WSS

@htownbrown said:

Well a much larger data set suggests you're close to right on OSU, but overall you're way off.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/6/liberal-professors-outnumber-conservatives-12-1/

That doesn't suggest all liberal professors wield politics like a club and I'm not suggesting that either.  But the numbers aren't even close.

A few things:

1) You're right. A professor being a Dem or Rep doesn't mean they're shoving their politics in students faces. 

2) Their study seems to indicate Independents are about even with Dems as well

3) That study DIDN'T examine business, engineering and natural sciences. All of which would skew much less Democratic

4) The article also inadvertently took a shot at OSU, which I chuckled at. 

@calfoxwc said:

Well, I sure ran afoul of the stinkin lefties in college a few times, let me tell ya.

Once, it was so obvious, I took my paper to the dean, with the grade marked out on the copy,

and he graded it an A paper, said if he were trying to screw with my grade, he still couldn't give it less than a B-.

Yeah, the prof had given me a D-, no explanation, except my assigned subject was anti war protests influence - constructive or not, and I explained how it had alienated the middle class and prolonged the war.

  He was a ringleader of anti-war protests. I was a freshman in my first year, didn't know that.

"And then I stood up and said 'God ISN'T dead'. The professor and I had a debate. I won, and proved his atheism wrong. All of the students applauded."

But, things change, and I enlisted in the military to support my parents who were going to be going through a very long strike at his work. and, there was a glut of teachers already graduated, with no place to go except to factories, etc. It worked out great - gave them my paychecks the entire time, about three months, they did fine, and I even fished for panfish on the back of the base, and hunted frogs and squirrels for supper. I even cooked up some cattail roots and stems for "potatoes" and greens. But I never thought to roast the green heads like corn. Maybe I'll try that this year.

Once in a while...I did have a few bucks on me for spaghetti - it was really cheap. And macaroni and cheese, with frozen peas and mushroom soup cooked into it.

It was my first survival outdoor skills test, outside of building fires without matches as a kid. lol But I didn't have to build a shelter or boil water. I lived in a rented room and it was paid for 6 mnths in advance, I was good.

@calfoxwc said:

Well, I sure ran afoul of the stinkin lefties in college a few times, let me tell ya.

Once, it was so obvious, I took my paper to the dean, with the grade marked out on the copy,

and he graded it an A paper, said if he were trying to screw with my grade, he still couldn't give it less than a B-.

Yeah, the prof had given me a D-, no explanation, except my assigned subject was anti war protests influence - constructive or not, and I explained how it had alienated the middle class and prolonged the war.

  He was a ringleader of anti-war protests. I was a freshman in my first year, didn't know that.

I took Geography of the Middle East at TAMU.  One of our reading requirements was From Beirut to Jerusalem by Thomas Friedman.  When I turned in my paper, my prof suggested I did not finish the book, otherwise I would not have made some of the remarks I did about Arafat and Rabin's sparring relationship.  He gave me a week to 'finish reading' the book.  I gave him what he wanted (Rabin was a big meanie) to the capacity I could and he gave me a B-.  

That guy and my Climatology prof were the only times I ever experienced the liberal filter in college.

Once, it was so obvious, I took my paper to the dean, with the grade marked out on the copy,

and he graded it an A paper, said if he were trying to screw with my grade, he still couldn't give it less than a B-.

Yeah, the prof had given me a D-, no explanation, except my assigned subject was anti war protests influence - constructive or not, and I explained how it had alienated the middle class and prolonged the war.

  He was a ringleader of anti-war protests. I was a freshman in my first year, didn't know that.

@clevfan4life said:

well that and listening to people wirh all sorts of degrees wondering where all the liberal indoctrination is. most of my professional friends are conservative econ/business people and they roll their eyes at sqwaking heads claiming kids are encoyraged to question their gender etc,etc....its all fabricated horsesht and u know it. some liberal professor sonewhere steps his bounds and all of a sudden universities are gender queering all the freshmen.....

Well a much larger data set suggests you're close to right on OSU, but overall you're way off.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/6/liberal-professors-outnumber-conservatives-12-1/

That doesn't suggest all liberal professors wield politics like a club and I'm not suggesting that either.  But the numbers aren't even close.

@oldbrownsfan said:

I don't think it is delusional. I saw it myself in college and I read about today all the time. Maybe a liberal might not see the liberal bias but if you are a conservative you see it. 

If you are conservative enough, a moderate becomes a liberal. Your center gets skewed. The calibration is off. 

You read about it because you primarily read right wing news sites that seek out stories like that to enforce a narrative. To show you what you want to see, and to get clicks. You think those sites are going to publish stories about all of the non liberal ridiculousness that goes on? Of course not. There's going to find 300 student Liberal Arts Sunshine College and act like it's representative of all college. 

Politics literally did not come up once in my time and Michigan. Closest thing would be sidewalk preachers yelling that we're all sinners and that evolution is a lie, and the Pro Life van that would drive around with graphic images of aborted fetuses on it. 

And that's not even getting into the attempt to discredit experts, academics, etc that seems to come from some on the right as well. 

@westside-steve said:

There's already a movement for the minimum salary for everyone whether you work or not. The more people on the Dole the more voters you have to increase and expand the Dole. That's the idea the ruling class will always be wealthy so they don't care. Even in a depression the ruling class will still be rich. They won't be harmed and the great unwashed will need them even more.

WSS

Very true, but this is an open attack (plan anyway) specifically aimed at the private sector.  This isn't being sold on 'feelings' either.  It's like putting a lizard to monitor a jar of flies.

@htownbrown said:

So your much smaller data set can be extrapolated out because you shared a box of huggies with the observers?

well that and listening to people wirh all sorts of degrees wondering where all the liberal indoctrination is. most of my professional friends are conservative econ/business people and they roll their eyes at sqwaking heads claiming kids are encoyraged to question their gender etc,etc....its all fabricated horsesht and u know it. some liberal professor sonewhere steps his bounds and all of a sudden universities are gender queering all the freshmen.....

@htownbrown said:

Well because your buddy and best friend say so, well that settles it.  Case closed.

Any thoughts on guaranteed federal jobs?  

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There's already a movement for the minimum salary for everyone whether you work or not. The more people on the Dole the more voters you have to increase and expand the Dole. That's the idea the ruling class will always be wealthy so they don't care. Even in a depression the ruling class will still be rich. They won't be harmed and the great unwashed will need them even more.

WSS

@htownbrown said:

Well because your buddy and best friend say so, well that settles it.  Case closed.

pretty much.  

@clevfan4life said:

i love how so many of u hear/read about something that happened at a smoking liberal arts college, like berkley for ex, and then extrapolate that over the entire spectrum of universities. u guys are clowns for that. i encountered only one obvious liberal professor in my time at akron u and my buddy who got his biz degree at osu said he also only knew of one or two libs the rest were hard core conservatives. one of my long time best friends got her phd in biochem from harvard, she is a liberal but said she encountered not a single outwardly liberal professor throughout her 6 or 7 years there. 

now ofc if u go get like ur dance degree or underwater basket weaving....sure, you'll find some liberals. point is kids arent getting i doctrinated like some of u think. if anything i was subjected to gross far right ideaology from 2 professors

Well because your buddy and best friend say so, well that settles it.  Case closed.

Any thoughts on guaranteed federal jobs?  

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