@tacosman said:

this is a bad trade for both teams.  

Bad for the raiders because, despite the two firsts which dont know if they will be 5 or 25, you send the wrong message to your fans as an organization.  Now I know that doesnt win games, but this is a business after all.  The "what good are draft picks if the point of draft picks is to hope you get a player like mack" I sorta get, but it's more complicated than that.  Obviously you have to look at the cap issues.  1st round draft picks for 4 years are cheaper....although this is highly dependent on where you are drafting- check out the cap hit on a 5th year option for a very high pick.  It's ummm...up there. 

Bad for the bears because mack pretty much has to be a truly amazing player the next 3-4 years for this to be worth it.  He has to be 2016 good.  Which is possibe, but it's more likely he plays like a really good player and not the absolute best defensive player in the nfl

I think that the Raiders up and leaving Oakland for Vegas was message enough for their fans, showing that they don't give a shite about them....only about the money they can make.

Bad for the raiders because, despite the two firsts which dont know if they will be 5 or 25, you send the wrong message to your fans as an organization.  Now I know that doesnt win games, but this is a business after all.  The "what good are draft picks if the point of draft picks is to hope you get a player like mack" I sorta get, but it's more complicated than that.  Obviously you have to look at the cap issues.  1st round draft picks for 4 years are cheaper....although this is highly dependent on where you are drafting- check out the cap hit on a 5th year option for a very high pick.  It's ummm...up there. 

Bad for the bears because mack pretty much has to be a truly amazing player the next 3-4 years for this to be worth it.  He has to be 2016 good.  Which is possibe, but it's more likely he plays like a really good player and not the absolute best defensive player in the nfl

Zombo said:

Are crazy bringing that up? Wrap him bubble wrap and push him around in a cart until gametime.

Zombo

Oh yes the very nature of professional tackle football and the who stays healthy and who doesn't lottery. Survival football for real.

I remember one year way back....hey were old.....4th quarter of preseason game when the starting quarterback threw a pick and got pizzed and tried to blast the guy out of bounds, blew out a knee.....out.

After that they started pulling out the starters more, you never know.

He did look bigger...

@jiggins7919 said:

Speaking of healthy, I should mention that it was about this exact time last year when we all got the phone alert saying Myles suffered a freak high ankle sprain. Just days before our first game against the very same opponent.. 

Are crazy bringing that up? Wrap him bubble wrap and push him around in a cart until gametime.

Zombo

Zombo said:

Ya, Williams is high on Avery. I'm not one to get excited about 5th round picks ... But don't you feel that Avery in the 5th round was exactly what they wanted form Mingo at #7 overall many years ago. Could be a huge steal for John Dorsey who will never buy a drink in Cleveland again if we go 8-8 this year.

Zombo

That's a fair point about Mingo, although they wanted that and much more from such a lofty pick. Keep in mind that draft was utterly awful for many teams, but I remember saying (screaming) "WTF WTF" after our selection of Mingo was announced. What we WANTED was a vaunted speed edge rusher. What we got was someone who had speed and little else. Speed is nice but tackles are generally too good to get beaten by one move consistently. Mingo didn't really have anything else to offer. Avery on the other hand is more of a bowling ball type player and plays with awesome leverage and center of gravity due to his super compact frame and leg strength. Not only that, but Avery is now in an NFL strength program, and he's going to get extremely powerful. Players that come into the league with his type of power generally get stronger very quickly with the introduction of NFL level nutrition, strength science, and the year round state of the game. That, and he obviously doesn't have class and he's also reaching his peak of being a man.

You ever wonder why you don't see many stud freshman defensive and offensive linemen? It's because they aren't men yet. Even a physical freak like Myles Garrett is much stronger after a year in the league. Once you get the benefit of the NFL conditioning treatment, a player can typically get much stronger in just a year. Avery might just "flash" a few games this year, but I'd keep an eye on him next season. Mingo never had the frame or body style to be both fast and strong. It just wasn't going to happen. Speed is terrific, but speed without power and skill at DE is of little use. You guys notice what Myles Garrett's best move is? It's not his insane speed rush. Myles makes the majority of his plays by pushing his blocker directly into the pocket, and Myles looks even stronger this year, not to mention healthy. 

Speaking of healthy, I should mention that it was about this exact time last year when we all got the phone alert saying Myles suffered a freak high ankle sprain. Just days before our first game against the very same opponent. It should be noted that I'll be in a mental hospital if that happens again. 

@ghoolie said:

The Browns aren't even one player away from being able to Beat a good Canadian team.

You're not even one post away from being a good troll.  Just can the weak crap, it's getting boring. 

@hoorta said:

2) We're not giving up a first round pick either. The Browns aren't one player away from the Super Bowl

The Browns aren't even one player away from being able to Beat a good Canadian team.

@jcam222 said:

You are simply wrong. They had a multiple pick / player offer being negotiated for days last week.  There was another circumstance last week that likely reduced some of our flexibilty on the package. Ultimately it ended up boiling down to someone offering two first rounders AND being outside the AFC.     As far as what you “ told us  earlier”, you throw a LOT of sh!t at the wall. Some of it’s bound to stick. What sticks is all you seem to remember which is why I somewhat fondly nicknamed you Nostradumbass last year LOL. Relative to your attire for the game I seriously think you should consider meds to smooth out your rollercoaster. Not sure if that’s antidepressants , estrogen or both. 

always great analytics for why the Browns always get beat at the last.minute eh?

C H E A P

@ghoolie said:

BULLSHIDT  I told you earlier in this thread, the Fahking Browns were never in the hunt. They never will acquire top free agents nor will they draft top playmakers.

This is a schidt team and a schidt Franchise.

I am wearing a Leveon Bell shirt to the Browns Backers opening day game. The Browns blow.

Nah- the Browns made a legit offer for Mack- I don't know why. The Bears made a lunatic offer the Raiders gladly accepted. Mack isn't magically going to turn the Da Bears into a playoff team in 2018- (care to bet me on that one?) Not with the Vikings and Packers in the same division. And now they're missing a couple future first round picks on top of it. 

As Gruden said after the trade- the Raiders defense wasn't very good last year with Mack. So shove that one up your tailpipe about Mack being a "difference maker". Since you like to rag on Joe Thomas- Joe was a "generational talent" at OT, and where did that get the Browns? The only defensive player I can recall who elevated a franchise after changing teams was Reggie White. 

PS- Mack's contract this year is relatively cheap, but FYI, the Bears put themselves in cap hell the next couple seasons. Put all their eggs in one basket. Lotsa luck, Chicago.   

And you're a shidt troll. 

@ghoolie said:

BULLSHIDT  I told you earlier in this thread, the Fahking Browns were never in the hunt. They never will acquire top free agents nor will they draft top playmakers.

This is a schidt team and a schidt Franchise.

I am wearing a Leveon Bell shirt to the Browns Backers opening day game. THe Browns blow.

Speaking of losersSpeaking of losers

@hoorta said:

Highway robbery Tour. You and me both know- with the bar set this high, assuming Myles plays to DPOY stature, what's his # going to be to keep him around in a couple years? $150 million?  

Still TBD, h... but not for at least 3 more years... 4, if we go to the 5th year option without extending onto his rookie deal.

@ghoolie said:

BULLSHIDT  I told you earlier in this thread, the Fahking Browns were never in the hunt. They never will acquire top free agents nor will they draft top playmakers.

This is a schidt team and a schidt Franchise.

I am wearing a Leveon Bell shirt to the Browns Backers opening day game. THe Browns blow.

You are simply wrong. They had a multiple pick / player offer being negotiated for days last week.  There was another circumstance last week that likely reduced some of our flexibilty on the package. Ultimately it ended up boiling down to someone offering two first rounders AND being outside the AFC.     As far as what you “ told us  earlier”, you throw a LOT of sh!t at the wall. Some of it’s bound to stick. What sticks is all you seem to remember which is why I somewhat fondly nicknamed you Nostradumbass last year LOL. Relative to your attire for the game I seriously think you should consider meds to smooth out your rollercoaster. Not sure if that’s antidepressants , estrogen or both. 

@jcam222 said:

 Our offer was outgunned that the last minute. 

BULLSHIDT  I told you earlier in this thread, the Fahking Browns were never in the hunt. They never will acquire top free agents nor will they draft top playmakers.

This is a schidt team and a schidt Franchise.

I am wearing a Leveon Bell shirt to the Browns Backers opening day game. THe Browns blow.

@diehardbrownsfan said:

 Lose is a verb that means “to fail to win, to misplace, or to free oneself from something or someone.” Loose is an adjective that means “not tight.”

10 minutes in the Penalty Box for speaking prober internet..Now get in the box..?

@diehardbrownsfan said:

Lose, LOSE not loose.  Loose vs. Lose. Shundalyn Allen. Words. Lose is a verb that means “to fail to win, to misplace, or to free oneself from something or someone.” Loose is an adjective that means “not tight.”

Loser is someone who nitpicks over someone else's grammar. 

@diehardbrownsfan said:

Lose, LOSE not loose.  Loose vs. Lose. Shundalyn Allen. Words. Lose is a verb that means “to fail to win, to misplace, or to free oneself from something or someone.” Loose is an adjective that means “not tight.”

I almost never play the grammar card DieHard. But Mike was one of the Mack at any cost guys....  Something I was adamantly against... 

I agree with Chuckie...  from NFL.com 

"Gruden downplayed the importance of Mack the entire offseason, at one point noting Oakland's D was poor with the pass rusher last season. Gruden's logic, whether you agree with it or not, is that the Raiders can take the savings from trading Mack to add multiple players down the road.

Trading a player of Mack's capability does not make Oakland better today. With a 10-year, $100 million contract, Gruden, however, is playing the long game. Adding two first-round picks and avoiding salary-cap hell could set the Raiders on solid foundation years ahead. The theory only works if Oakland hits on those draft picks and signs good players. We know Mack is a great player. Draft picks and cap space can be fool's gold." 

Don't we know about accumulating draft picks and using them on busts...   

@lbc-mike said:

Yeah let's loose 14 games this year to get bosa.  Makes sense

Lose, LOSE not loose.  Loose vs. Lose. Shundalyn Allen. Words. Lose is a verb that means “to fail to win, to misplace, or to free oneself from something or someone.” Loose is an adjective that means “not tight.”

@lbc-mike said:

Yeah let's loose 14 games this year to get bosa.  Makes sense

 You weren't paying attention. I said trade up for Bosa. I don't expect the Browns to be drafting high enough to get Nick. FWIW, I got a rare freebie to head to Columbus to see Nick & the Buckeyes in person today. Bosa is as advertised, a one man wrecking crew. The hype he might be better than his brother is totally believable. For sure a top 3 pick.   

@gumby73 said:

MKC is reporting deal is done..Mack "might be" a Bear   EDIT--Rapaport says 2 1st round picks +++plus++,deal seems done lacking details.We weren't the only team to get out bid +++plus bears new dollars..Jets finished 2nd in the running for Mack 

The Bears GM Ryan Pace must have been high to give up that much for Mack- and then give him a cap busting deal on top of it. Anyone want to bet Kahlil won't make the Chicago a playoff team this year?   

@tour2ma said:

Great trade for da Raiders... those 1's are going to be high ones.

Highway robbery Tour. You and me both know- with the bar set this high, assuming Myles plays to DPOY stature, what's his # going to be to keep him around in a couple years? $150 million?  

@tour2ma said:

Great trade for da Raiders... those 1's are going to be high ones.

I had to read that again 1+6 and 1+3 hmmmmmmmm.

@clevfan4life said:

so the browns were legit contenders? what was our offer? two first rounders is excessive and thst might not be all the bears give them? yeah im glad. We still need to find a LDE that cant be blocked by the zach ertz's of the nfl....

I will be very surprised if the Browns aren't drafting in the top 10 this upcoming draft, and that draft has a ridiculous amount of DLine prospects. 

Hell, the entire Clemson DLine could be drafted in the first two rounds.