@tour2ma said:

Corbett and Zettel healthy scratches??? Bit of a surprise there...

Last healthy scratch Saints? TE-DeValve or O.Charlse?/DB-D.Rice needed on ST/DE-Chad Thomas(down Ogbah),LB-Tanner Vallejo(maybe down Kirksey)...just something to ponder?

Not desirable, but if TT has a poor 1st half, then I could see Hue "going to the 'pen."

@tour2ma said:

I hear you... but one player/unit/decision never is the sole reason for a loss... or a win for that matter.

I cannot give TT a partial pass for the failings of other units. He has to show me something this Sunday... win or lose.

I basically shared the same sentiments in another post this morning.  Saints play a lot of man coverage.  Tyrod struggles to deliver accurate footballs against this style of defense.  We have multiple weapons on offense that can create enough separation to be "open" in the NFL.  If Tyrod doesn't put points on the board, he's got one more chance against the Jets and then he's out unless he shows something.  Only reason he wouldn't get benched after the Saints game is we play Thursday night, and that's not enough time to prepare a rookie QB for a nationally televised game.  However, we'll get a mini bye week after the Thursday night game, and that'd be a few more days to help Baker prepare.  If Tyrod tanks Sunday and then Thursday, it'll be Baker Mayfield time against the Raiders 9/30.  Promise.

@jiggins7919 said:

We also need to remember that special teams and penalties are what essentially "lost" us the game. We wouldn't even be HAVING this discussion if we actually had competent special teams for what seems like ever. We kick that FG and we're saying, Thank God we had a veteran QB who mostly took care of the ball in nasty weather and got us in position to win."

Instead we're essentially blaming Tyrod and saying he's got very little time left to hang onto his job. The bigger problem is I knew we were losing that game. I knew we wouldn't make that kick, especially after the RIDICULOUS penalty. It was literally the Brownsiest thing ever. My wife told me I was being absurdly negative and I needed to have faith. I reassured her that we had zero chance of making that kick. It was blocked, and she left the living room without saying a word. I'm not a prophet, I just pay attention. Everyone knew that kick had no chance. It's like I said in a previous post a while back...we have to figure out how to defeat the Browns jinx, and I honestly don't know when or if that will happen. There's just something wrong with us. 

I hear you... but one player/unit/decision never is the sole reason for a loss... or a win for that matter.

I cannot give TT a partial pass for the failings of other units. He has to show me something this Sunday... win or lose.

@jiggins7919 said:

The bigger problem is I knew we were losing that game.

Except we didn't lose the game.   So there's that...

@tour2ma said:

Agree, jigs... and I'm not blaming TT for the loss, but he played a significant role in it.

I'd been steadfastly in the "TT until we are eliminated" camp until I saw Baker develop thru the preseason.

At the end of preseason I posted in a thread about how TT had 4 games to earn the right to keep his job.

Now, after Week 1, I think he has to show us something in the Superdome. A win would be nice, but is not essential. TT simply has to be an asset to our effort. If he's not, I'm ready for Baker.

I do not buy the Couch comparisons. Baker has shown the pocket awareness, mobility and self-restraint to keep from physical harm.

Mentally? I think he's indestructible.

In his first year as a Browns QB, Brian Sipe went 2-3 in 5 starts throwing 1 TD and 7 INTs. And he turned out alright.

Baker is made of the same stuff as Brian... only with better tools.

We also need to remember that special teams and penalties are what essentially "lost" us the game. We wouldn't even be HAVING this discussion if we actually had competent special teams for what seems like ever. We kick that FG and we're saying, Thank God we had a veteran QB who mostly took care of the ball in nasty weather and got us in position to win."

Instead we're essentially blaming Tyrod and saying he's got very little time left to hang onto his job. The bigger problem is I knew we were losing that game. I knew we wouldn't make that kick, especially after the RIDICULOUS penalty. It was literally the Brownsiest thing ever. My wife told me I was being absurdly negative and I needed to have faith. I reassured her that we had zero chance of making that kick. It was blocked, and she left the living room without saying a word. I'm not a prophet, I just pay attention. Everyone knew that kick had no chance. It's like I said in a previous post a while back...we have to figure out how to defeat the Browns jinx, and I honestly don't know when or if that will happen. There's just something wrong with us. 

but Tyrod did me proud - he was my starting qb in my first win (by 1.x points)s....

Tyrod got 25.58 points on a rainy game...first game of the season, no loss to the squealers...we'll see improvement next game.

@texasag1969 said:

That is exactly what I saw in Darnold last night. I mean what rookie throws a pick 6 for his first NFL completion and then leads an absolute rout over the favored opponent? That there is a future Big Ben with fleet feet. Impressive!!

My impression was that was a designed play. The first of at least two "cute plays" the Jets tried to run... and neither worked.

@hoorta said:

In reply to our blocked FG, on further review. Bruce Drennan's show on STO last night had a perfect sideline view of that play, and I was able to break it down frame by frame in slo-mo. Not what I thought. The big problem was Bitonio didn't get down low enough, and Watt was able to stand him up, shove him back a few feet and get his hand up high enough to hit the ball. Technical mistake by Joel, but credit Watt with a great play. Regardless, unless Gonzalez had some slice on the kick, I think it would have missed even without the block.

Joel had a rough game throughout.

@hoorta said:

In reply to our blocked FG, on further review. Bruce Drennan's show on STO last night had a perfect sideline view of that play, and I was able to break it down frame by frame in slo-mo. Not what I thought. The big problem was Bitonio didn't get down low enough, and Watt was able to stand him up, shove him back a few feet and get his hand up high enough to hit the ball. Technical mistake by Joel, but credit Watt with a great play. Regardless, unless Gonzalez had some slice on the kick, I think it would have missed even without the block.

I have to agree.. The trajectory looked shoddy... Even Lou Groza wouldve had difficulty.. Who knows...

@jiggins7919 said:

I mean, I figured that, but then why doesn't every team just run three guys at someone every FG attempt and block every one of them? 

In reply to our blocked FG, on further review. Bruce Drennan's show on STO last night had a perfect sideline view of that play, and I was able to break it down frame by frame in slo-mo. Not what I thought. The big problem was Bitonio didn't get down low enough, and Watt was able to stand him up, shove him back a few feet and get his hand up high enough to hit the ball. Technical mistake by Joel, but credit Watt with a great play. Regardless, unless Gonzalez had some slice on the kick, I think it would have missed even without the block.

@the-gipper said:

Moral of the story?  Go for his fuyucking knees next time. Or his head.  I mean, if you are going to get called for a very fine form tackle, then why bother? Make those 15 yard penalties count.

Fair to say?

May as well.   If you're going to get a penalty for a textbook tackle and a clean hit.   May as well do some damage.  

@texasag1969 said:

I said in the Tavern at the time that looking at the replay Myles had clearly stuck out his right hand & arm on the ground to try to lesson the weight on the QB he had just run through and was sliding over. There was nothing else he could do since he had to dive to make the tackle in the first place. Myles is a great player but he's never been a dirty player like Suh who is out to permanently hurt whomever he hits.

Moral of the story?  Go for his fuyucking knees next time. Or his head.  I mean, if you are going to get called for a very fine form tackle, then why bother? Make those 15 yard penalties count.

Fair to say?

@tour2ma said:

Mentally? I think he's indestructible.

In his first year as a Browns QB, Brian Sipe went 2-3 in 5 starts throwing 1 TD and 7 INTs. And he turned out alright.

Baker is made of the same stuff as Brian... only with better tools.

That is exactly what I saw in Darnold last night. I mean what rookie throws a pick 6 for his first NFL completion and then leads an absolute rout over the favored opponent? That there is a future Big Ben with fleet feet. Impressive!!

I'd been steadfastly in the "TT until we are eliminated" camp until I saw Baker develop thru the preseason.

At the end of preseason I posted in a thread about how TT had 4 games to earn the right to keep his job.

Now, after Week 1, I think he has to show us something in the Superdome. A win would be nice, but is not essential. TT simply has to be an asset to our effort. If he's not, I'm ready for Baker.

I do not buy the Couch comparisons. Baker has shown the pocket awareness, mobility and self-restraint to keep from physical harm.

Mentally? I think he's indestructible.

In his first year as a Browns QB, Brian Sipe went 2-3 in 5 starts throwing 1 TD and 7 INTs. And he turned out alright.

Baker is made of the same stuff as Brian... only with better tools.

@tour2ma said:

Looks that way doesn't it?

Suddenly the Week 3 TNF game seems a lot less "in-the-bag"-ish...

I was giving TT 4 games minimum, but now I won't be shacked Week 3 becomes... The battle to the Top Two QBs in the 2018 Draft!

It's funny. I was one of the staunchest supporters of having Tyrod play as long as possible this year. I wanted him to start until we were eliminated from playoff contention, hopefully in late November (stop laughing). I really didn't see the point in rushing our future out there, and I wanted to see what an experienced QB could bring to us. 

What a difference a week makes. To be fair, I must take into consideration the terrible weather. Heck, Big Ben is one of the best bad weather QBs of all time (according to the announcers) and he threw 3 or 4 picks. I think the reason so many fans are upset is that their Tyrod fears came to fruition. He doesn't take enough shots, he holds the ball, he doesn't score points, etc. But how do you judge a QB in that weather? It's not easy, and we have to remember that Tyrod didn't get a ton of help, did he? 

The Njoku drop really hurt, more than you think. When a QB is struggling and finally makes a big time throw on a crucial 3rd down, that hurts. That would've been 1st and 10 at their 31. Huge drop on a terrific throw. Also, Tyrod got NO special teams help. None. Obviously blocked FG, awful punt returns, Jabrill Peppers fair catch with NOBODY around him, awful kickoff returns, and terrible punt coverage. Steelers seemed to get yards almost every punt return. Why not us? 

Before the game I said our special teams "terrified me", and you see why. We can blame Tyrod, but the blame really goes to special teams. We have decent special teams and we win that game. Also, Nick Chubb can't play unless he learns pass protection. He cost us NUMEROUS times. Go back and watch him...it was MISERABLE, and he cost us greatly. 

@tour2ma said:

Looks that way doesn't it?

Suddenly the Week 3 TNF game seems a lot less "in-the-bag"-ish...

I was giving TT 4 games minimum, but now I won't be shacked Week 3 becomes... The battle to the Top Two QBs in the 2018 Draft!

No way he starts until the OL is fixed and that won't be by week 3. I mean what HC would ever let that happen. ?

@jiggins7919 said:

Oh, and I guess the Jets are somehow good? We're going to be 0-3 before the 3rd Sunday of the year! We'll, WINLESS technically, since we began the season with that stalwart tie. 

Looks that way doesn't it?

Suddenly the Week 3 TNF game seems a lot less "in-the-bag"-ish...

I was giving TT 4 games minimum, but now I won't be shacked Week 3 becomes... The battle to the Top Two QBs in the 2018 Draft!

@clevfan4life said:

"lit".......but no call. Which i was ok with, its football. But i screamed up there in the nosebleeds with steelers fans thatvwe'll get a call against us similiar. And lije 10 mins later myles let too much of his body mass fall near ben upsetting the fluffy pillows that were laid down to catch ben from that nasty DL's intentions. Still Furious at that call

Agree... the hit on Njoku was completely legal... what helmet was involved was minimal and glancing... and he was separated from the ball. That said the same hit had the ball been cleanly overthrown probably draws a Defenseless Receiver flag.

Also agree on the MG "roughing" call. However, even if the league says now it was wrong, the refs are going to err on the side of protecting QBs...

... something we will appreciate when we have a QB worth protecting.

@gumby73 said:

Even after review, We got a gift when ball hit chubb on the helmet on punt that pitt.recovered ?..Pitt. got called for 12/-116..Browns got called for 14 with 11 accepted -87 yards.. A Hold on Zeitler was declined/1 Ill.Motion on Landry declined & 1 Ill. formation was declined against Harrison.. Does Tie/rod stutter? 4 False Starts=1 Joel.1 Njoku,2 Harrison.Garrett drew 3 flags,in the zone,roughing,block above waist..Block above waist was also called on D.Rice & O.Charles..Gordon 1 roughing..And we drew a Leverage penalty that remains unnamed by  https://www.nflpenalties.com   BTW-Colquitt knocked 6 of 12 punts inside the 20 with a 57 yard long on a messy day..      

You forgot the Joe Haden jump on Josh Gordon’s back in the end zone no call gift. Another 7 point swing.

@hoorta said:

Because you can't jump over the center anymore. The Steelers IIRC ran three guys at Joel. Unless you're superman, you can't withstand three guys trying to knock you backwards.... 

I mean, I figured that, but then why doesn't every team just run three guys at someone every FG attempt and block every one of them? 

@tour2ma said:

I wonder if the earlier TT high ball on a seam route that got Njoku lit up flashed before his eyes.

Was that the stupid one ok 3rd and short when we had Gordon one on one down the sideline?