Nine.

That's beyond frustrating. Nine drops is utterly pathetic.

But then the reversal came in, and it was much more than just a call. It was the reversal of a win. A reminder of so many losses we incurred because we didn't make the play. They all came flooding back. I can't imagine what that feels like. To celebrate a win and have it taken from you after a replay reversal that nobody has ever seen before. 

@tour2ma said:

Yup...

Collins looks.... disinterested? I can't remember stronger onset of "gator-arms" than the INT he shied away from vs. OAK. The ball was his for the reaching.

Kirk's the real mystery to me. He just seems to have forgotten how to play the position. I don't see him being asked to play differently than he did for Williams last season, but maybe keener eyes can comment.

Injuries?Injuries?

@typicalbrowns50 said:

Kirksey and Collins have been lackluster all year. Big reason why the run game is gashing the defense is the LB play

Yup...

Collins looks.... disinterested? I can't remember stronger onset of "gator-arms" than the INT he shied away from vs. OAK. The ball was his for the reaching.

Kirk's the real mystery to me. He just seems to have forgotten how to play the position. I don't see him being asked to play differently than he did for Williams last season, but maybe keener eyes can comment.

@typicalbrowns50 said:

Kirksey and Collins have been lackluster all year. Big reason why the run game is gashing the defense is the LB play

They better fix it by the time we play the Broncos. They continually ran two excellent backs all night against KC. They don't have a very good pass blocking line however.

@domcucch1994 said:

Sick of "rebuilding" we've been doing this rebuilding Sheet since '99...

Finish the "rebuild" and win some games!!!

That's why I don't like using the term. It's been over-used as an excuse for delays and failure. When a genuine chance for a rebuild comes along, people react with "not agaaaain..." *groan*. Just looking at the record after four games looks like "same old Browns". I blame no one for feeling that way. Nor will I try talking anyone out of feeling that way. If this indeed is a chance for real rebuild and Hue & company don't blow it, the team will convince the fans themselves on the field over the next twelve games.

Collins is a stud... when he wants to be. He gives up on plays all of the time and I dont know how William's let's that slide.

Peppers is the worst player we are giving significant minutes to. Hes not good at anything.

We should really look at bringing in R. Matthews. He gets open and catches the ball and that's what we need. Callaway should have his reps cut until he figures out how to catch.

Bottom line we put up 40 points with Baker and we are a young team. Things are going to get better. P.s. I really do think there is a conspiracy against the browns. These refs are ridiculous. You dont see this happening to any other team

There is a whole lot to like about this team going forward this season.    We still have some holes and it's still a really young team that's going to make mistakes.   They will win some games and i'm sure lose games that should be won (like yesterday) but overall, I think we are finally in the right direction of having a good team.

@flyingfooldoug said:

You're right. I was just thinking of the other play. I still sneak or give it to a back. Play to win.

Ya.... I might have too. But if you miss and they score.... ugh....

After watching Haley the last few weeks in short yardage situations though...... he would have ran a quadruple fake jet sweep flea flicker hook and ladder and lost 20 yards..... 

@hx214 said:

19 yard line is midfield?

You're right. I was just thinking of the ot  play. I still sneak or give it to a back. Play to win.

@flyingfooldoug said:

Could played to win too. Fourth and a foot midfield to win. Punt to not.

With a totally gassed defense I would not have faulted him at all going for it 4th and inches after the "new" spot closer to our goalline if he used a jumbo package with Hyde and our biggest TE blasting together behind Baker to push him forward on a sneak. They could have picked him up and carried him that short distance. The outcome was obviously going to be the same as punting even if we didn't make it. Got to have a pair if you want to win one of those kinds of games.

@flyingfooldoug said:

Could played to win too. Fourth and a foot midfield to win. Punt to not.

19 yard line is midfield?

@texasag1969 said:

I agree but with one proviso.................has our gameday coach learned anything about proper use of the clock, TO's, when to go for two vs one or whether he has a gassed defense or not? Evidence seems to indicate the answer into year 3 is still little to none.

Could played to win too. Fourth and a foot midfield to win. Punt to not.

@mddawg said:

I shouted penalty as soon as  Marshawn Lynch kicked that ball especially egregious that it wasn't called as the Raiders scored later on that drive. The refs were terrible but  unfortunately we're still not good enough to overcome that yet .

I could be wrong but l think Lynch whiffed when teying the kick the ball. Had he actually kicked it l think it would have been a penalty, but since he missed...

@tinythinker said:

Quick add:

This is what a genuine rebuilding year looks like:

• Exciting young players demonstrating their potential by actually making plays on the field, not just giving hints of what they might do here and there
• Keeping it close/staying in it game after game with a genuine chance to win. All those games they "coulda, shoulda" won -- not because a fan wishes it so through rose colored glasses or beer goggles but because it's really true
• Other teams having to play much better when facing the Browns rather than phoning it in

Lots of previous seasons over the past many years billed as "rebuilding" were just called that because otherwise is admitting the team just sucks... again.

Sure fans want more wins faster. Nothing wrong with that. A better kicker to start the season and few calls going the other way could have the Browns anywhere from 4-0 to 2-1-1. Yell at Hue and the coaching staff. Yell at the refs and play review team. Yell at other forum posters. This team has genuine potential. Not a guarantee, not a lock on any number of wins, but real and true potential.

Can they learn and adjust from what has and hasn't worked so far? What is their realistic cap for improvement this year in terms of gameplay and win-loss record? Who knows. There is always a (slim) chance the team will become self-defeating and be blown up again, but that would be a shame.

There are posts every now and then that I wish I'd written...

This is one of them.

Pretty big thoughts for a tinythinker...

@flyingfooldoug said:

I think he had 3 total runs. And over 100 yards. Just a simple coaching mistake.

My thoughts exactly.  He's obviously feeling it.... Feed him the damn ball more 

@tinythinker said:

Quick add:

This is what a genuine rebuilding year looks like:

• Exciting young players demonstrating their potential by actually making plays on the field, not just giving hints of what they might do here and there
• Keeping it close/staying in it game after game with a genuine chance to win. All those games they "coulda, shoulda" won -- not because a fan wishes it so through rose colored glasses or beer goggles but because it's really true
• Other teams having to play much better when facing the Browns rather than phoning it in

Lots of previous seasons over the past many years billed as "rebuilding" were just called that because otherwise is admitting the team just sucks... again.

Sure fans want more wins faster. Nothing wrong with that. A better kicker to start the season and few calls going the other way could have the Browns anywhere from 4-0 to 2-1-1. Yell at Hue and the coaching staff. Yell at the refs and play review team. Yell at other forum posters. This team has genuine potential. Not a guarantee, not a lock on any number of wins, but real and true potential.

Can they learn and adjust from what has and hasn't worked so far? What is their realistic cap for improvement this year in terms of gameplay and win-loss record? Who knows. There is always a (slim) chance the team will become self-defeating and be blown up again, but that would be a shame.

Sick of "rebuilding" we've been doing this rebuilding Sheet since '99...

Finish the "rebuild" and win some games!!!

This is what a genuine rebuilding year looks like:

• Exciting young players demonstrating their potential by actually making plays on the field, not just giving hints of what they might do here and there
• Keeping it close/staying in it game after game with a genuine chance to win. All those games they "coulda, shoulda" won -- not because a fan wishes it so through rose colored glasses or beer goggles but because it's really true
• Other teams having to play much better when facing the Browns rather than phoning it in

Lots of previous seasons over the past many years billed as "rebuilding" were just called that because otherwise is admitting the team just sucks... again.

Sure fans want more wins faster. Nothing wrong with that. A better kicker to start the season and few calls going the other way could have the Browns anywhere from 4-0 to 2-1-1. Yell at Hue and the coaching staff. Yell at the refs and play review team. Yell at other forum posters. This team has genuine potential. Not a guarantee, not a lock on any number of wins, but real and true potential.

Can they learn and adjust from what has and hasn't worked so far? What is their realistic cap for improvement this year in terms of gameplay and win-loss record? Who knows. There is always a (slim) chance the team will become self-defeating and be blown up again, but that would be a shame.