@clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

Multiple formations is where it’s at. 

Our front 7 just isn’t that good/healthy right now. 

A lot of fans don’t like Kirksey, but let’s face it, our defense is a lot better with him AND Schobert. Right now there isn’t enough talent on defense to slow down a potent offense like Houston. 

Offseason defensive needs: Interior DL(free agency?), Physical Hybrid LB(great pursuit/tackling), corner.

We need a beast LDE that can carve down RT's outside shoulders. Get two DT's that can pressure consistently up the middle and we have a collapsing pocket. Honestly i think between avery, schobert  vallejo, kirksey and collins....we have one of the better lb'ing corps in all of football. 

If collins leaves/retires....i wouldnt be adverse to bringing in mstthews who if he's splitting reps with avery, those two could actually hold down the LDE/olb spot. Matthews has always been a guy who's lighter but still can power edge rush as good as anyone in football. 

Margus hunt is also a free agent, he would compliment Garrett very nicely. And he's a guy that can slide in and play 34 DE in our nickel packages

@clevfan4life said:

U spy the qb with another player. When u develop a front line that can generate pressure with 4 guys, u have a great luxury to.do other shitt. 

Multiple formations is where it’s at. 

Our front 7 just isn’t that good/healthy right now. 

A lot of fans don’t like Kirksey, but let’s face it, our defense is a lot better with him AND Schobert. Right now there isn’t enough talent on defense to slow down a potent offense like Houston. 

Offseason defensive needs: Interior DL(free agency?), Physical Hybrid LB(great pursuit/tackling), corner.

@clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

I don’t like 4 down lineman when they can’t even run with most NFL QBs. 

I think I’m just being a wishy washy browns fan, apologies. 

U spy the qb with another player. When u develop a front line that can generate pressure with 4 guys, u have a great luxury to.do other shitt. What we need to is develop a formidable 4 man front while using genard as a 43 lb'er or 34 olb'er in our nickel packages. 

You cant argue our def looked better last year. It was simpler. Guys didnt look as lost and out of place. 

I think I’m just being a wishy washy browns fan, apologies. 

@clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

The defense looks like a 3-4 right now when in nickel with Avery standing up on the edge and it looks so much better. 

Body Calhoun sack was negated by ticky tack holding. Finally stopped Houston in the nickel. 

This 4-3 is lacking against speed which half NFL quarterbacks possess. 

We look terrible in the 34. We're standing up players like smith and zettel  And honrstly garrett doesnt look so hot droppimg back. Its a look we dont have the right personnel for

Body Calhoun sack was negated by ticky tack holding. Finally stopped Houston in the nickel. 

This 4-3 is lacking against speed which half NFL quarterbacks possess. 

@tour2ma said:

One thing I do not think has been mentioned in this thread is that contrary to popular belief at its heart the 3-4 is a run defense... and as we all know this is no longer a run league.

True, everyone morphs these days to whatever extent their personnel allow them, or require them, to do so. However, teams do have a base D... a "go to" look.

i dont think the 3-4 stops the run better than a 4-3 anymore. I think players stop the run. I personally prefer 4-3 edges in run stopping because i think they are able to hold up at the point better against modern tackles that arent just ginormous but also athletically freakish....like that dallas LT. Smaller 3-4 olb'ers tend to get swallowed or obliterated by guys like that. Exceptions like Mack and Houston dually noted. 

@tour2ma said:

One thing I do not think has been mentioned in this thread is that contrary to popular belief at its heart the 3-4 is a run defense... and as we all know this is no longer a run league.

True, everyone morphs these days to whatever extent their personnel allow them, or require them, to do so. However, teams do have a base D... a "go to" look.

I have to disagree.  There is and will always be a place for the running game to take the drivers seat in this league.  Maybe not just for teams looking to emphasize it,  but for teams looking to control clock and close out games. 

Look at what the emergence of a running game has done for the Saints, Lions and just a few short years ago, San Fran and eventual champion Seahawks.   Even a great team like the Rams, the very foundation of their offensive philosophy is running the ball effectively and setting up play action vertical shots for Goff and his accuracy.  

You are right about the 34 being based in run stopping past.  'Twas the Oklahoma 52 at one point. 

@dick-mellon said:

Exactly; the old 3-4 / 4-3 is an archaic way to look at a defense.

True, everyone morphs these days to whatever extent their personnel allow them, or require them, to do so. However, teams do have a base D... a "go to" look.

@clevfan4life said:

If we went to a 34 and asked ogunjobi to be the NT....he could do it, but as the season wore on he'd break down fairly quickly. 

What about Coley on the inside?

How about Larry O as an end in the 3-4? 

@dick-mellon said:

Exactly; the old 3-4 / 4-3 is an archaic way to look at a defense.

The Patriots play a 4-3, but only about 15% of all snaps occur with 4 lineman. 

The only numbers that matter to me on defense are points per game allowed PPG.

The Browns are ranked 28th out of 32 teams, allowing 27.4 PPG.

That is shitty, even for a Greg Williams defense; his defenses are usually in the middle of the pack.

Basically agree points per game for defense are the most important stat and yeah Browns suck there. 

@tiamat63 said:

You realize just how many fronts you can and will run in any one game, right?   

Exactly; the old 3-4 / 4-3 is an archaic way to look at a defense.

The Patriots play a 4-3, but only about 15% of all snaps occur with 4 lineman. 

The only numbers that matter to me on defense are points per game allowed PPG.

The Browns are ranked 28th out of 32 teams, allowing 27.4 PPG.

That is shitty, even for a Greg Williams defense; his defenses are usually in the middle of the pack.

@tiamat63 said:

I look at that Dline similar to what Minnesota was trying there for a while with the Williams boys in the middle, Jared Allen and Ray Edwards. 

if we could clone larry, i guess....thise two williams boys were legit. i havent heard jobi's name called in weeks. Where the fuk are the guys we brought in a week before preaeason? Didnt we bring in a giant NT type from NO and also carl davis who is also NT size? we traded danny and meder for 2 identical players with demonstrably less talent. 

@clevfan4life said:

yeah i thought suggs was on there prior to 06. Its still blowing me mind they were a 43 in their best years. I could have swore in the goose and adams years they were a 34. I mean if u basically have two monster 2 gappers like that

I look at that Dline similar to what Minnesota was trying there for a while with the Williams boys in the middle, Jared Allen and Ray Edwards. 

@tiamat63 said:

You're thinking of Ngata... suggs was on the team for a few years before that. 

Oops... Yup, Suggs was drafted in '03.

@tiamat63 said:

You're thinking of Ngata... suggs was on the team for a few years before that. 

yeah i thought suggs was on there prior to 06. Its still blowing me mind they were a 43 in their best years. I could have swore in the goose and adams years they were a 34. I mean if u basically have two monster 2 gappers like that, find a good 5 tech and run a 3-4. Myles can easily be ur hybrid u only drop in zone coverage and genard "could" be the other olb'er if he can cover. 

The issue is, can either of those two guys tackle in space well enough? its a moot point tho since our DL is full of 1 gappers...

@tour2ma said:

McCrary and (former Brown) Rob Burnett...

'06 was Suggs rookie year... and they were a great D, #1 overall points and yards, but still a 4-3 and no Johnson.

You may be thinking of '08 and/or '09.

You're thinking of Ngata... suggs was on the team for a few years before that. 

@tiamat63 said:

2000.  And they were primarily a 4 man front.   Adams, Siragusa, Mcrey and... can't remember the other end...

McCrary and (former Brown) Rob Burnett...

@clevfan4life said:

whoch year am i tjinking of then when the had suggs and johnson as olb'ers? i thought that was the year they were one of the bestvever

'06 was Suggs rookie year... and they were a great D, #1 overall points and yards, but still a 4-3 and no Johnson.

You may be thinking of '08 and/or '09.

@clevfan4life said:

whoch year am i tjinking of then when the had suggs and johnson as olb'ers? i thought that was the year they were one of the bestvever

2012