@atom said:

well then you may want to include Nick Launey he has produced Public Image, Nick Cave,Black  Rebel Motorcycle Club. Arcade Fire Kate Bush,Talking Heads,INXS,Supergrass,Lou Reed,The Slits ,silverchair and Midnight oil among others he is all about capturing the mood in the studio and raw sound which i enjoy more than the polished sound of mutt

Theres no real right or wrong way to Mecca these days...

@nickers said:

Yeah.. I only meant from the standpoint.. He pushed them over the top..AC/DC's success started in the mid-late 70's.. I was in My early teens then.... Everything Mutt touches turns to gold pretty much.. Very few producers have that kind of versatility.. It's a great indicator he's listening to more than one genre of music..,, Which for me.. I was pretty lucky as a kid to be exposed to so many forms of music.. Both my Mom and Dad had/has pretty eclectic tastes.. I cite them .. My parents as big an influence as any I had as a musician.. It all started with them... And since I understood what tones were at a very young age.. I really paid attention to the way records are made... I really paid attention to format and arrangements.. Dynamics... Today.. It's so hard to be original.. Just about everything has been written in every way conceivable.. Having a great sense of melody and understanding harmonic voicings loom large in ones development.. Those basic fundamental keys will take you a long way...

well then you may want to include Nick Launey he has produced Public Image, Nick Cave,Black  Rebel Motorcycle Club. Arcade Fire Kate Bush,Talking Heads,INXS,Supergrass,Lou Reed,The Slits ,silverchair and Midnight oil among others he is all about capturing the mood in the studio and raw sound which i enjoy more than the polished sound of mutt

@atom said:

not saying mutt sucked he has been around awhile and knows his shit but he was more instrumental with def's success than AC/DC(they were on the rise before mutt and moved on nicely after mutt) oh u forgot to mention The Cars Heartbeat City which mutt produced 

Yeah.. I only meant from the standpoint.. He pushed them over the top..AC/DC's success started in the mid-late 70's.. I was in My early teens then.... Everything Mutt touches turns to gold pretty much.. Very few producers have that kind of versatility.. It's a great indicator he's listening to more than one genre of music..,, Which for me.. I was pretty lucky as a kid to be exposed to so many forms of music.. Both my Mom and Dad had/has pretty eclectic tastes.. I cite them .. My parents as big an influence as any I had as a musician.. It all started with them... And since I understood what tones were at a very young age.. I really paid attention to the way records are made... I really paid attention to format and arrangements.. Dynamics... Today.. It's so hard to be original.. Just about everything has been written in every way conceivable.. Having a great sense of melody and understanding harmonic voicings loom large in ones development.. Those basic fundamental keys will take you a long way...

@nickers said:

They were the two biggest selling albums they had (AC/DC) So I would say he had a very large hand in they're success and good fortunes...... Don't forget.. He produced and directed Shania Twains career,,, although She was country.. her success crossed over into the main stream... I'd say Mutt is a goddamn genius!''

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/8039464/acdcs-top-10-albums-back-in-black-highway-to-hell-more

not saying mutt sucked he has been around awhile and knows his shit but he was more instrumental with def's success than AC/DC(they were on the rise before mutt and moved on nicely after mutt) oh u forgot to mention The Cars Heartbeat City which mutt produced 

@atom said:

I wouldnt say he made AC/DC into stars he only produced 2 of there lp's of course they were very good one's in HIGHWAY TO HELL and BACK IN BLACK  he had a huge impact on def leaperds career tho

They were the two biggest selling albums they had (AC/DC) So I would say he had a very large hand in they're success and good fortunes...... Don't forget.. He produced and directed Shania Twains career,,, although She was country.. her success crossed over into the main stream... I'd say Mutt is a goddamn genius!''

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/8039464/acdcs-top-10-albums-back-in-black-highway-to-hell-more

@nickers said:

It's the "Jan Wenner HOF".. Janet Jackson has 0 business being in.. She has nothing R&R about her,,,, And Mutt Lang definitely deserves to be in. He made AC/DC stars too..... I'll go as far as saying Seymour Duncan and Larry DiMarzio deserve to be in more than Janet fucking Jackson.. They actually have influenced the sound of Rock music and rock guitar for almost 50 years.. Jan Wenner.. I hope he chokes on a fucking ham sandwich and croaks!

I wouldnt say he made AC/DC into stars he only produced 2 of there lp's of course they were very good one's in HIGHWAY TO HELL and BACK IN BLACK  he had a huge impact on def leaperds career tho

@the-gipper said:

Opinions are like assholes everyone has one and so do you.

Thank God.. Holding all that shit in can be dangerous!!

@axe said:

Ok, let's call it "The Twelve Note HOF"

I understand where you're coming from but would you consider all those people I listed rock and roll bands? There's got to be something that separates rock and roll from something else right? Part of it was Rebellion back in the 50s. And that holds true through the punk movement at even through the Disco movement has the Young Generation rebelled against their hippie older siblings who rebelled against the Frankie Avalon watch who rebelled against Elvis and on and on and on. Then the new Romantics then the 80s dance-pop  the hippity hop bunch...

WSS

@axe said:

I'm with nickers.. If you want to call it the music HOF, then do it. But don't call it the R&R HOF anymore. It's not..

Hard to say my friend. If you want to be a purist only Bill Haley & the Comets are actual rock and roll. The door swings open when you classify Jethro Tull or yes or Metallica or Queensryche or credence or The Moody Blues or Toto or Steely Dan or Procol Harum. Somebody could probably make it case one way or the other for any of them.

WSS

@nickers said:

They're wrong and you know it..  Do you always give enablers to idiots?

Opinions are like assholes everyone has one and so do you.

@the-gipper said:

Wrong is merely an opinion in this case maybe they think they’re right and that you were wrong.

They're wrong and you know it..  Do you always give enablers to idiots?

@nickers said:

Hey sue me for being passionate about something I strongly believe in.... I didn't get into music to get rich quick or obtain anything in life except my own pure satisfaction of creating and playing music.. When I see a fraud taking place.. I don't mind airing my views about it.. They may not care.. or change just because I said something.. But the end result is its wrong and fraudulent.. I guess assholes like Jan Wenner don't have any trouble sleeping at night.. I pity him...

Wrong is merely an opinion in this case maybe they think they’re right and that you were wrong.

@the-gipper said:

Hey sue me for being passionate about something I strongly believe in.... I didn't get into music to get rich quick or obtain anything in life except my own pure satisfaction of creating and playing music.. When I see a fraud taking place.. I don't mind airing my views about it.. They may not care.. or change just because I said something.. But the end result is its wrong and fraudulent.. I guess assholes like Jan Wenner don't have any trouble sleeping at night.. I pity him...

@nickers said:

Well here's a clue for you.. No one gives a shit what you think.. So.. There's that

I know that....but I am not complaining about it...like you are.

... I at least I understand what is Rock.. And what is NOT Rock . I'm also a fan of music of all kinds.. They're criteria is garbage...If they're gonna induct Rap and Pop artists , Then the reality is it really is NOT the RRHOF.

Well...maybe they have a different definition than you do.  Maybe I have a different definition than you do. So, the fact is, none of "them" are going to listen to what either you or I would have to say.  I just don't get as bent out of shape about it as you do.

. I mean there are exceptions like Leo Fender and Les Paul.. They brought the guitar to the modern age and influenced 50+ years worth of rock music.... Without Electric Guitars.. There ain't no Rock and Roll.. I also stated.. They should put Seymour Duncan and Larry DiMarzio in the Rock hall respectively.. These men are every bit as influential as Les Paul and Leo Fender.. These men are the leading manufacturers of Electric guitar pickups which for the last 50 some years has influenced the sound of Rock guitar and also a number of different genres.. These men are Rock legends IMHO.... And yes.. I'm not in anyway underscoring songwriters like John Prine or someone like Glenn Ballard.. But if they're gonna keep passing on rock genius like Todd Rundgren or Steve Lukather.. Then the RRHOF is a complete fraud and should be blown up...

Again....notwithstanding the potential validity of your points.....I will just say that I will appreciate what they have done, not what they haven't....and hopefully.....to quote Todd Rundgren  they will "See the Light" someday.

@the-gipper said:

Well here's a clue for you.. No one gives a shit what you think.. So.. There's that... I at least I understand what is Rock.. And what is NOT Rock . I'm also a fan of music of all kinds.. They're criteria is garbage...If they're gonna induct Rap and Pop artists , Then the reality is it really is NOT the RRHOF.. I mean there are exceptions like Leo Fender and Les Paul.. They brought the guitar to the modern age and influenced 50+ years worth of rock music.... Without Electric Guitars.. There ain't no Rock and Roll.. I also stated.. They should put Seymour Duncan and Larry DiMarzio in the Rock hall respectively.. These men are every bit as influential as Les Paul and Leo Fender.. These men are the leading manufacturers of Electric guitar pickups which for the last 50 some years has influenced the sound of Rock guitar and also a number of different genres.. These men are Rock legends IMHO.... And yes.. I'm not in anyway underscoring songwriters like John Prine or someone like Glenn Ballard.. But if they're gonna keep passing on rock genius like Todd Rundgren or Steve Lukather.. Then the RRHOF is a complete fraud and should be blown up...

@nickers said:

Well I'm not looking at it from the eyes of the average fan (consumer).. I'm looking at it from the eyes of a seasoned Musician whose been at it most of my life (40+ years).

Well...here is a clue for  you: nobody cares about that. Particularly the people that run this institution.  This is a museum/hof meant for the consumption by the public....and NOT for the esoteric long time musician. So, like I said, nobody gives  shit about what you give a shit about.

Toto deserves to be in and One of Totos' founders Steve Lukather (Guitarist,Musician) deserves to be in by himself .. He's helped written some of the biggest hits in Rock.. and not only rock but Music in general.. him and former Toto drummer , the late Jeff Porcaro and other members of Toto pretty muck made MJ's Thriller all by themselves.. There were a couple of Rock hits off that record.. One being a song called "Beat it" which was composed by Lukather (Music) Guitar solo performed by Eddie Van Halen.. Not to mention Luke has been in on countless sessions with the likes of Chicago, The tubes and over a thousand songs from other artists, throughout the late 70's through the 90's.. Adding his guitar parts and such.. So when I see people like Mariah Carey and Janet Jackson getting in.. it pisses me off because they do NOT meet the criteria as far as I'm concerned..

Except, of course, likely that they did meet the criteria  Why?  Because YOUR criteria is NOT THE criteria.......no matter how artistically valid your arguments may be. I believe that they Do have a songwriter section...and a sideman category

@the-gipper said:

Everybody has a fucking different idea of what is or is not R&R...and what kind of genre should or should not be in the RRHOF.  They have put one hit wonders in there...yet have left out some people who have had numerous #1 hits.

Well I'm not looking at it from the eyes of the average fan (consumer).. I'm looking at it from the eyes of a seasoned Musician whose been at it most of my life (40+ years). Toto deserves to be in and One of Totos' founders Steve Lukather (Guitarist,Musician) deserves to be in by himself .. He's helped written some of the biggest hits in Rock.. and not only rock but Music in general.. him and former Toto drummer , the late Jeff Porcaro and other members of Toto pretty muck made MJ's Thriller all by themselves.. There were a couple of Rock hits off that record.. One being a song called "Beat it" which was composed by Lukather (Music) Guitar solo performed by Eddie Van Halen.. Not to mention Luke has been in on countless sessions with the likes of Chicago, The tubes and over a thousand songs from other artists, throughout the late 70's through the 90's.. Adding his guitar parts and such.. So when I see people like Mariah Carey and Janet Jackson getting in.. it pisses me off because they do NOT meet the criteria as far as I'm concerned..

@nickers said:

It's the "Jan Wenner HOF".. Janet Jackson has 0 business being in.. She has nothing R&R about her,,,, And Mutt Lang definitely deserves to be in. He made AC/DC stars too..... I'll go as far as saying Seymour Duncan and Larry DiMarzio deserve to be in more than Janet fucking Jackson.. They actually have influenced the sound of Rock music and rock guitar for almost 50 years.. Jan Wenner.. I hope he chokes on a fucking ham sandwich and croaks!

Everybody has a fucking different idea of what is or is not R&R...and what kind of genre should or should not be in the RRHOF.  They have put one hit wonders in there...yet have left out some people who have had numerous #1 hits.

@axe said:

Def Leppard has sold more than 100 million albums world wide.. Hell yes they deserve to be in!  But, they need to take Mutt Lange in with them..

The rest are a joke, with the exception of The Cure..

If you want to call it the Music Hall of Fame then do it!!!  Quit calling it the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame!!!

It's the "Jan Wenner HOF".. Janet Jackson has 0 business being in.. She has nothing R&R about her,,,, And Mutt Lang definitely deserves to be in. He made AC/DC stars too..... I'll go as far as saying Seymour Duncan and Larry DiMarzio deserve to be in more than Janet fucking Jackson.. They actually have influenced the sound of Rock music and rock guitar for almost 50 years.. Jan Wenner.. I hope he chokes on a fucking ham sandwich and croaks!

@diehardbrownsfan said:

STFU Atom ant.  

fuck off you racist The MC5 kicks ass

IMO  Def leppard sucks

@browns149 said:

I have no idea of how many albums ANYONE sold. But I would think Janet Jackson sold more. Or Whitney Houston sold more than ALL OF THEM

Whitney Houston sold more than either of them.   Janet Jackson and Def Leppard have sold about the same number.

Rihanna has sold more than any of the ones mentioned, but she is not eligible for the RRHOF until 2030.

There are some BIG sellers who are eligible...but who have not been voted in:   Mariah Carey, Whitney, Celine Dion

But, I guess they are not considered Rock n Roll....so have not been inducted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists

Others not inducted:   Frank Sinatra;   Barbara Streisand. Garth Brooks