@tour2ma said:

Point taken... but depending upon who the new HC is... and more specifically how old he is... it could be hard to remain an HC in waiting.

No Doubt. And there's always going to be that choice of being a servant in heaven or a prince in hell. 

That's why I think Bruce Arians would be a good choice if they have to make a change.

AFC Championship 2019 Super Bowl 2020 he can retire then.

?

WSS

I get the money and ego things...and yes, those are factors. But hardware speaks loudest in the league, and he could command an offense set to break records on the way to the most elusive prize for the browns ... A Lombardi trophy. 

If Freddie does like it here, he's not going to just jump ship at the first opportunity to make more money in a job he necessarily won't enjoy as much.  The rookie fqb senario is rare, and I hope he's smart enough to this opportunity before him.

@westside-steve said:

Keep in mind that if the Browns run roughshod over the AFC North next season Freddy might start thinking like McDaniels. Not wanting to jump off a ship that's not sinking. 

Point taken... but depending upon who the new HC is... and more specifically how old he is... it could be hard to remain an HC in waiting.

@tour2ma said:

Been mentioned here before... and less than fully embraced.

One twist might be to make Freddy the HC and hire Bruce as a "Bench Coach" as most MLB clubs now have.

Arians could mentor a season or two with minimal pressure on his health and later move to the FO in an advisory role.

Possible? Maybe, but other teams are going to be looking at Bruce for their HC slot.

I haven't seen Bruce Arians on too many lists recently oh, there must be a reason for that. Either Dorsey doesn't want him or it's a Smokescreen.

Keep in mind that if the Browns run roughshod over the AFC North next season Freddy might start thinking like McDaniels. Not wanting to jump off a ship that's not sinking. 

WSS

@tour2ma said:

"Happy" is my general takeaway from the little I've heard/read. And that's fine as long as it doesn't extend to a need to be "liked". The last "happy HC" we had was Romeo and we know he had decision issues and a soft center.

What's your take on Kitch's "spine"? Does he have the stuff to be the disciplinarian that HCs sometimes have to be? Is he capable of making tough decisions?

To me he’s a football kind of guy. Old school. He’s good because he lets himself have fun with the game. Plus he’s clicked with Mayfield. Great communication between those two. And to the point of annoying some with a fine. He’s going to be here next season for sure. 

@flyingfooldoug said:

It’s really been a variety of different reports, interviews etc.  The guy is always happy. I know some was on STOs Redzone show. Cleveland.com is good too. Obr too. Him and Baker have hit it off well and seem to have some good chemistry going. I doubt it will be hard at all to keep him

"Happy" is my general takeaway from the little I've heard/read. And that's fine as long as it doesn't extend to a need to be "liked". The last "happy HC" we had was Romeo and we know he had decision issues and a soft center.

What's your take on Kitch's "spine"? Does he have the stuff to be the disciplinarian that HCs sometimes have to be? Is he capable of making tough decisions?

@tour2ma said:

Links?

Check in with fansided too. 

@tour2ma said:

OK.... for clarity I wasn't questioning your word, just wanted to listen to Kitch a bit.... thanks.

I did not know he was that "locked in".

Seems he could still experience what he wants in a bench coach style role.

It’s really been a variety of different reports, interviews etc.  The guy is always happy. I know some was on STOs Redzone show. Cleveland.com is good too. Obr too. Him and Baker have hit it off well and seem to have some good chemistry going. I doubt it will be hard at all to keep him

@flyingfooldoug said:

I base that on half a seasons worth of listening local. I’ve seen interviews on tv where’s he’s having fun playing football with Baker. All the grumbling in Berea went south in Oct. 

OK.... for clarity I wasn't questioning your word, just wanted to listen to Kitch a bit.... thanks.

@bjh2130 said:

Other teams might be looking at Arians but if you believed him when he was doing broadcast and such he stated he would only come back for the Cleveland Browns. But he said he would only come back to be the head coach of the Cleveland Browns I don't know if you would be willing to do the equivalent of a bench coach to the MLB. But that is a great idea if he would be willing.

From NFL.com

In an interview with NFL.com, Arians was asked about his coaching future and if a return to the sidelines was possible.

"I would listen to the Browns," Arians said. "And only them.

He cited the atmosphere in Cleveland when you have playoff-caliber football as one of the main reasons.

I did not know he was that "locked in".

Seems he could still experience what he wants in a bench coach style role.

@tour2ma said:

Links?

I base that on half a seasons worth of listening local. I’ve seen interviews on tv where’s he’s having fun playing football with Baker. All the grumbling in Berea went south in Oct. 

@tour2ma said:

Been mentioned here before... and less than fully embraced.

One twist might be to make Freddy the HC and hire Bruce as a "Bench Coach" as most MLB clubs now have.

Arians could mentor a season or two with minimal pressure on his health and later move to the FO in an advisory role.

Possible? Maybe, but other teams are going to be looking at Bruce for their HC slot.

Other teams might be looking at Arians but if you believed him when he was doing broadcast and such he stated he would only come back for the Cleveland Browns. But he said he would only come back to be the head coach of the Cleveland Browns I don't know if you would be willing to do the equivalent of a bench coach to the MLB. But that is a great idea if he would be willing.

From NFL.com

In an interview with NFL.com, Arians was asked about his coaching future and if a return to the sidelines was possible.

"I would listen to the Browns," Arians said. "And only them.

He cited the atmosphere in Cleveland when you have playoff-caliber football as one of the main reasons.

@flyingfooldoug said:

As far as Freddie goes.....he likes it here. Seriously, if you listen to and read his words, he’s a happy camper and likes the situation he’s in. He does have thoughts of becoming a HC too but that’s the future. He’s not going anywhere for at least another year and nothing says keeping him here will be hard. 

Links?

@bjh2130 said:

One way to keep Freddy past 2019 if our offense flourishes again while giving him the associate head coach tag would be to hire Bruce Arians as the head coach.

Been mentioned here before... and less than fully embraced.

One twist might be to make Freddy the HC and hire Bruce as a "Bench Coach" as most MLB clubs now have.

Arians could mentor a season or two with minimal pressure on his health and later move to the FO in an advisory role.

Possible? Maybe, but other teams are going to be looking at Bruce for their HC slot.

@tour2ma said:

When is the last time you liked our STs?

First, it's Dave Toub.... I mentioned him a while ago as one prospect Dorsey knows first hand.

Wouldn't be the first guy to rise to HC from the ST Coord role in the NFL. Most do have other coaching experience at the collegiate level. BLT's John Harbaugh is the lone example among active HCs plus...

As for keeping Freddy beyond 2019 should our O flourish... tough to do. Asst HC tags won't help unless he's promised the full promotion in the near term... and that requires a willing transitional HC be hired now.

Someone will see through his "bumpkin" facade (probably a southern team) ala the Oilers once upon a time with Bum Phillips.

One way to keep Freddy past 2019 if our offense flourishes again while giving him the associate head coach tag would be to hire Bruce Arians as the head coach. they've obviously worked together before in Arizona with kitchens as the quarterback coach for Carson Palmer and Bruce maybe only has two to three years left of head coaching. That would let Freddy know that there is an end in sight for the current head coach, give him some comfortability/ familiarity with the head coach, and gives him some time to get seasoned and experience. This is the best way I see if they really want to keep kitchens past 2019 but don't want to make him a head coach this coming year. However it remains to be seen if Arians is a willing transitional head coach like you said. Even then you would still have to Pony up to keep kitchens in my mind

@hoorta said:

Only thing I worry about promoting Freddie all the way to HC is it too much too fast? And if he does become the HC, how much time would he be able to spend running the offense?  

Same way McAvy does for LAR...

Sit by your QB when your D is on the field and leave the game to your DC. It's the one thing... well, one of many things... Hue did wrong his first two years.

McVay has Wade Phillips.... Kitch could still have GW.

Can even add a "bench coach" to help manage TOs, Challenges, etc...

There are questions that need answering to be sure Kitch can organize well enough to be an HC, but those are M-Sat questions... Sunday is easy.

@tour2ma said:

When is the last time you liked our STs?

First, it's Dave Toub.... I mentioned him a while ago as one prospect Dorsey knows first hand.

Wouldn't be the first guy to rise to HC from the ST Coord role in the NFL. Most do have other coaching experience at the collegiate level. BLT's John Harbaugh is the lone example among active HCs plus...

As for keeping Freddy beyond 2019 should our O flourish... tough to do. Asst HC tags won't help unless he's promised the full promotion in the near term... and that requires a willing transitional HC be hired now.

Someone will see through his "bumpkin" facade (probably a southern team) ala the Oilers once upon a time with Bum Phillips.

Only thing I worry about promoting Freddie all the way to HC is it too much too fast? And if he does become the HC, how much time would he be able to spend running the offense?  

@jiggins7919 said:

At the beginning of the season, you would’ve been laughed at if you said Freddie could be our next head coach.  Now, I’m not so sure he’s not the leading candidate.  Why?  Well, it’s simple really.  Reports are out stating the Browns are blocking Kitchens from interviewing with other teams for vacant OC positions.  It’s easy to see why teams would want him, and if you’re a team that invested heavily in the QB position by drafting one in the first round, you’d be insane not to try and sign Kitchens as your OC.  So what’s the problem with bringing Freddie back as OUR OC?  It’s simple, really.  If Kitchens returns as our OC in 2019 and our offense once again performs very well, SOMEBODY is going to offer him a head coaching position in 2020, it’s just the nature of the league. 

How do we guard against Freddie leaving after 2019?  I have no clue, but I guess one way to create loyalty is to make him one of the highest coordinators in the league, and I’d have ZERO problems doing that.  I know one of the names I’ve been hearing is Dave Taub (sp?), the special teams coach from the Chiefs, and this is actually a hire I’d be ok with because it’s unlikely Taub would interfere with the offense...

When is the last time you liked our STs?

First, it's Dave Toub.... I mentioned him a while ago as one prospect Dorsey knows first hand.

Wouldn't be the first guy to rise to HC from the ST Coord role in the NFL. Most do have other coaching experience at the collegiate level. BLT's John Harbaugh is the lone example among active HCs plus...

The same can be said of five other legendary head coaches who cut their teeth on special teams for an extended period of time: Marv Levy, Dick Vermeil, Mike Ditka, Bill Cowher and Bill Belichick.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-head-coaching-openings-special-teams-dick-vermeil-john-harbaugh-bill-cowher-mike-ditka-121615

As for keeping Freddy beyond 2019 should our O flourish... tough to do. Asst HC tags won't help unless he's promised the full promotion in the near term... and that requires a willing transitional HC be hired now.

Someone will see through his "bumpkin" facade (probably a southern team) ala the Oilers once upon a time with Bum Phillips.

@jiggins7919 said:

The more I think about this coaching search, the more I realize just how difficult it really is to get the right fit.  From the polls I’ve seen, many would like to see both Gregg Williams and Freddie Kitchens return, but not everyone is completely sold on Williams.  Conversely, virtually EVERYONE I’ve heard in the media, on talk shows, and chatrooms said that Freddie Kitchens MUST return. 

At the beginning of the season, you would’ve been laughed at if you said Freddie could be our next head coach.  Now, I’m not so sure he’s not the leading candidate.  Why?  Well, it’s simple really.  Reports are out stating the Browns are blocking Kitchens from interviewing with other teams for vacant OC positions.  It’s easy to see why teams would want him, and if you’re a team that invested heavily in the QB position by drafting one in the first round, you’d be insane not to try and sign Kitchens as your OC.  So what’s the problem with bringing Freddie back as OUR OC?  It’s simple, really.  If Kitchens returns as our OC in 2019 and our offense once again performs very well, SOMEBODY is going to offer him a head coaching position in 2020, it’s just the nature of the league. 

How do we guard against Freddie leaving after 2019?  I have no clue, but I guess one way to create loyalty is to make him one of the highest coordinators in the league, and I’d have ZERO problems doing that.  I know one of the names I’ve been hearing is Dave Taub (sp?), the special teams coach from the Chiefs, and this is actually a hire I’d be ok with because it’s unlikely Taub would interfere with the offense, and I currently HATE OUR SPECIAL TEAMS.  I don’t want to overstate this, but I don’t think it’s a reach to say that special teams cost us a playoff birth, and if we had GOOD special teams, we’re probably the freaking TWO SEED in the AFC.  Let’s go back and look at the games that special teams cost us, shall we? 

Week 1 – Steelers.  Had a chance to win, kick was blocked. 

Week 2 – Saints.  Our kicker missed two FG’s (including kick to tie at the end) and two XP’s.  We lost by 3. 

Week 4 – Raiders.  Didn’t we give up a big punt return after the refs screwed us and we were up 8?  I could be mistaken, but I doubt it.

Week 7 – Bucs.  We fumbled a punt return in OT.  Conversely, THEIR special teams connected on a freaking 59 yarder to win the game.  That…hurts. 

Week 17 – Ravens.  Our kicker misses a 45 yarder before the half, and we don’t have the confidence that he can kick a 56 yarder at the end to win it.  Conversely, Ravens’ kicker (probably hall of fame) was 4-4.

That’s a minimum of FIVE GAMES our special teams COULD HAVE WON for us.  Now, I know it’s not totally fair to completely blame them, I know it’s a team game, but still.  I don’t like our special teams, and if we’re bringing in a new coach, I’d love for it to be a special teams guy. 

And Under The Heading of "If the cat hadn't stopped to shit it would have caught the mouse" consider if these guys would have made the coaching change early and started Mayfield game number one. You think those games wouldn't have had to come down to the wire in the first place?

WSS

At the beginning of the season, you would’ve been laughed at if you said Freddie could be our next head coach.  Now, I’m not so sure he’s not the leading candidate.  Why?  Well, it’s simple really.  Reports are out stating the Browns are blocking Kitchens from interviewing with other teams for vacant OC positions.  It’s easy to see why teams would want him, and if you’re a team that invested heavily in the QB position by drafting one in the first round, you’d be insane not to try and sign Kitchens as your OC.  So what’s the problem with bringing Freddie back as OUR OC?  It’s simple, really.  If Kitchens returns as our OC in 2019 and our offense once again performs very well, SOMEBODY is going to offer him a head coaching position in 2020, it’s just the nature of the league. 

How do we guard against Freddie leaving after 2019?  I have no clue, but I guess one way to create loyalty is to make him one of the highest coordinators in the league, and I’d have ZERO problems doing that.  I know one of the names I’ve been hearing is Dave Taub (sp?), the special teams coach from the Chiefs, and this is actually a hire I’d be ok with because it’s unlikely Taub would interfere with the offense, and I currently HATE OUR SPECIAL TEAMS.  I don’t want to overstate this, but I don’t think it’s a reach to say that special teams cost us a playoff birth, and if we had GOOD special teams, we’re probably the freaking TWO SEED in the AFC.  Let’s go back and look at the games that special teams cost us, shall we? 

Week 1 – Steelers.  Had a chance to win, kick was blocked. 

Week 2 – Saints.  Our kicker missed two FG’s (including kick to tie at the end) and two XP’s.  We lost by 3. 

Week 4 – Raiders.  Didn’t we give up a big punt return after the refs screwed us and we were up 8?  I could be mistaken, but I doubt it.

Week 7 – Bucs.  We fumbled a punt return in OT.  Conversely, THEIR special teams connected on a freaking 59 yarder to win the game.  That…hurts. 

Week 17 – Ravens.  Our kicker misses a 45 yarder before the half, and we don’t have the confidence that he can kick a 56 yarder at the end to win it.  Conversely, Ravens’ kicker (probably hall of fame) was 4-4.

That’s a minimum of FIVE GAMES our special teams COULD HAVE WON for us.  Now, I know it’s not totally fair to completely blame them, I know it’s a team game, but still.  I don’t like our special teams, and if we’re bringing in a new coach, I’d love for it to be a special teams guy. 

@clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

Haley’s playcalling was so bad at times... that I believe it

But think about it if you get fucked in the ass publicly what are you going to tell everybody? Hey if Haley really was Jackson's idea it seems he would have known him better right? And been on the same page? It seems like Haley hated Jackson's cuts from the get-go and treated him with as little respect as you could treat a head coach.

WSS

@bjh2130 said:

I don't have some constant need to prove to everybody how intelligent I am regarding subjects.

90% of this thread is you.. trying to prove to everybody how intelligent you are. 5% is other people pointing this out, and the other 5% is tangentially relevant to this forum.

If there is a god, someone will lock this thread regardless of any more replies.  McCarthy is a troglodite and I despair if he is hired.

@beare said:

why was mccarthy interview date changed?

Easy HC job with jets?