You keep harping on yards. You rightly noted that our Offense created pressure on the opposition to score.... but the opposition didn't... at least not to the extent they did in prior years.

Last year our turnovers gave short fields to the opponents regularly. We gave up cheap points early and often, and the lack of threat by our O gave opponents much of the 2nd-half off most Sundays. If you don't have far to go or need points, then you don't rack up yards.

Of your top ten run Ds... five are paired with top ten scoring Offenses (#3 NO; #5 IND; #6 LAC; #8 PTG and #9 CHI) and two more are added if we look at the top 13 (#11 HOU and #13 BLT). We all know that opposing teams abandon the run when they are down.

The other three are: #18 PHI, #22 DAL and #25 DET... two wild cards and an also ran.

Bottom line... you need proficiency on both sides of the ball to succeed and while we are not there yet, we made huge strides on both sides in 2018... in lockstep.

Simple truth though is that I'm unsure why anyone wouldn't blindly follow the lead of what Dorsey thinks is best. The only guy I'd truly not understand is Jim Caldwell, but that may have been a Rooney Rule interview.

@texasag1969 said:

https://www.sbnation.com/2019/1/2/18163069/nfl-coaching-carousel-2019-dos-and-donts-browns-packers-dolphins-bengals

From the article for the Bengals:

Don’t: Hire Hue Jackson by any means.

Jackson was 3-36-1 in 2.5 seasons with the Browns. That wasn’t enough to stop Lewis from hiring his former offensive coordinator back to his staff this fall, where he was

That would be a bad idea.

It would be a great idea- from an AFC North & Browns standpoint. At least until Hue gets fired again.

@darren15 said:

The Bengals don't do 

Yes, I edited that in as you were typing. LOL!?

@texasag1969 said:

https://www.sbnation.com/2019/1/2/18163069/nfl-coaching-carousel-2019-dos-and-donts-browns-packers-dolphins-bengals

The Bengals don't do 

From the article for the Bengals:

Don’t: Hire Hue Jackson by any means.

Jackson was 3-36-1 in 2.5 seasons with the Browns. That wasn’t enough to stop Lewis from hiring his former offensive coordinator back to his staff this fall, where he was

That would be a bad idea.

@hoorta said:

Not so certain we've seen the last of Williams- and certainly not Kitchens. But it was telling when they played a sound byte of Dorsey tonight on Red Zone on what he was looking for in a head coach. First thing out of his mouth was "high character guy". Could well be the foot dragging on Williams is Dorsey doesn't view him as such.   

While true, this is from a Canton paper.

On if Williams' past NFL suspension is a strike against him as it relates to considering character for the position:

"I think he has paid his penalty for that."

@clevfan4life said:

talent wise im happy with that entire D except for two positions, interior DL and LDE. 

What about depth? We’re still lacking terribly

@orion said:

Apparently, Dorsey interviewed Williams yesterday.  He got that out-of-the-way.  And I guess Kitchens will get an interview too.

Although I too liked what these two guys did for our team when H&H were shown the door, I feel that we've seen the last of them on our home sidelines.  (and I've said pretty much that since Hue was fired)

Dorsey will hire a new HC.  This new HC will hire his coordinators.  (that's just how these things are 'supposed to' work)  This new HC will not know Kitchens from a bath room  .   (tongue in cheek.  he will know what happened to the Browns over this past year)

Now, Dorsey may tell this new HC that he should probably interview Kitchens...and explain what a great job he did with Haley's offense, Baker, and the rest of the offensive players....but ultimately the new HC will hire who he wants.

Not so certain we've seen the last of Williams- and certainly not Kitchens. But it was telling when they played a sound byte of Dorsey tonight on Red Zone on what he was looking for in a head coach. First thing out of his mouth was "high character guy". Could well be the foot dragging on Williams is Dorsey doesn't view him as such.   

@clevfan4life said:

if you guys are ok with the 30th ranked defense in the league 

We moved up a spot eh?  We were ranked 31st most of the time that I was lookin'.

Apparently, Dorsey interviewed Williams yesterday.  He got that out-of-the-way.  And I guess Kitchens will get an interview too.

Although I too liked what these two guys did for our team when H&H were shown the door, I feel that we've seen the last of them on our home sidelines.  (and I've said pretty much that since Hue was fired)

Dorsey will hire a new HC.  This new HC will hire his coordinators.  (that's just how these things are 'supposed to' work)  This new HC will not know Kitchens from a bath room  .   (tongue in cheek.  he will know what happened to the Browns over this past year)

Now, Dorsey may tell this new HC that he should probably interview Kitchens...and explain what a great job he did with Haley's offense, Baker, and the rest of the offensive players....but ultimately the new HC will hire who he wants.

@the-gipper said:

Duh.....because they went from  -0- wins to 7?   Also.....you are looking at the wrong stat.

How do they compare from 2017 to 2018 in points given up per game?

product of being on the field less. Offense scoring points forces the opposing offenses to change game plans. That being said I "FULLY" acknowledge that this defense came up huge at certain crucial points in the season. The talent is there to be a top 5 defense. It's the scheme that I started to take issue with about midway through the season. I started to see shit that made no sense. But we were winning, so what right? Well we could have been in the playoffs if that defense was more settled "imo". I just wonder if firing Hue made WIlliams lose a little contact with the defense. Maybe another interim HC should have come in? I dunno. But that defense is why we're not playing next Sunday. 

@clevfan4life said:

how more people aren't miffed about dropping 16 spots on the total team defense is beyond me. 

Duh.....because they went from  -0- wins to 7?   Also.....you are looking at the wrong stat.

How do they compare from 2017 to 2018 in points given up per game?

@flyingfooldoug said:

One thing on the D. We didn’t give up a ton of points. Injuries in the secondary didn’t help either. I figure a little more, better talent will do wonders next year. Blake was the one calling D plays after the hue flu too

talent wise im happy with that entire D except for two positions, interior DL and LDE. 

@clevfan4life said:

if you guys are ok with the 30th ranked defense in the league going into next year when it's very conceivable we can step on the entire AFC north's neck....

I don't think anyone is happy being ranked 30th in defense. LOL, guess who's 31st? The Chiefs.  

For the record, the other playoff teams are:  Eagles #23, Patriots #21, Rams #19, Seahawks #16, Saints #14, Texans #12, Colts #11, Chargers #9, Cowboys #7, Bears #3, Ravens #1.  PS the Jaguars were 5th in total defense, and sucked because their quarterback situation sucked.

I don't think anyone has the Ravens or Bears as odds on favorites to win the Super Bowl, even with their great defenses. Sure, we have to improve the defense, especially the run defense. It won't take much incremental improvement to drastically improve in that respect though. FWIW the difference between the Browns defense and the Rams is 35 yards\game, and the Rams only gave up 8 fewer points than the Browns over an entire season- less than one per game. Plus that yardage might be skewed because Cleveland played in four overtime games, some which went the full 10 minutes.  

@clevfan4life said:

well yeah, we won more cause we went from 24th to 13th in offense in essentially not a complete season because until Hue and Haley were fired, even with Baker the offense was so so. If that offense we saw the last 6 or so games had been there from the start, or at least from a 2-3 games in...we'd be in the playoffs. 

One thing on the D. We didn’t give up a ton of points. Injuries in the secondary didn’t help either. I figure a little more, better talent will do wonders next year. Blake was the one calling D plays after the hue flu too

@flyingfooldoug said:

But we won more. I think the Texans game skewed the numbers some. And another example where you can’t get the whole story on a stat line

well yeah, we won more cause we went from 24th to 13th in offense in essentially not a complete season because until Hue and Haley were fired, even with Baker the offense was so so. If that offense we saw the last 6 or so games had been there from the start, or at least from a 2-3 games in...we'd be in the playoffs. 

@clevfan4life said:

how more people aren't miffed about dropping 16 spots on the total team defense is beyond me. 

But we won more. I think the Texans game skewed the numbers some. And another example where you can’t get the whole story on a stat line

@tacosman said:

nonsense...there is a whole thread where several posters pontificate on how we may just be interviewing all these others to 'make it look right' and dorsey and williams are going to 

have a sit down where they hash it all out and get it done.  Pure fantasy.  

1) The farther bounty hunter gets from this organization the better.  Im not at all convinced though that there isnt still a small chance he won't be retained as DC.  He exhibits such delusional and grandiose thought content("I could have 6 HC jobs without even showing up for the interview") that he may actually feel another organization would want him as a head coach(they don't) and it's not a sure thing that with his history he could even latch on as a DC.....so coming back here as DC, if offered, would probably be better for him than being unemployed or a position coach...but who knows.

2) I'm all for a complete overhaul though

1) Bountygate was six years ago. Williams paid his dues for conspiring in that scheme. So you're trying to tell me people can't change. FWIW, if the Browns don't retain Williams, he's certain to get at least a couple Head Coaching interviews from other teams based on his 5-2 interim record with the Browns. 

2) Sure, we've had more complete overhauls and blow up of the coaching staff and Front Office than I can count. I had to look it up, since 1999, the Browns have gone through 10 head coaches, rivaling the number of names on that Quarterback jersey, one every two years on the average. So we're finally are seeing some inkling of progress and you want to "blow it all up again?" Those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it. Sean McVays don't grow on trees, and you have to be damn lucky to guess right on an up and comer. Ask the Broncos how Josh McDaniels worked out. Williams just might be one of the coaches who works out the second time around. Belichick and Carroll sure did. 

If you're interested, you'll have to go back to 1947 to find ten coaches the Steelers have had since.