And as I posited, Vag is full of it if he thinks a high pick is in play for Brown... NFL.com agrees with me.... distressed goods with a lot of baggage... http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001018427/article/steelers-gm-antonio-brown-trade-must-benefit-team

@tour2ma said:

Hmmmm... yet this is just the scenario, i.e. tag and trade, that the folks on NFL Live talked about all week...

Personally, if it is allowed, I could see some sharp GM signing Bell and then not trading for him. That'd be ROFLMFAO material there...

If you want to read through the legal mumbo-jumbo, here it is in toto.    

https://www.thefootballeducator.com/nfl-cba-article-10-franchise-transition-players/

However- if the above is what you were getting at- another team's GM could offer Bell a front loaded contract- (that Le'veon signs) and see if the Steelers would dare to match...  And if they did- tell Colbert, naw, we really didn't want him after all....  Welcome to cap hell.... 

Another thing in Article 10 that I'll take responsibility for spreading false information-  if Bell never signs a transition tag- his rights would stay with Pittsburgh, and they could repeat the Transition tag in the 2020 league year. So if Bell wants to get out of Dodge, he's going to have to sign something this year- before his value to other teams goes in the toilet....  

"When the Transition Player negotiates such an offer with a New Club, which the player desires to accept, he shall give to the Prior Club a completed Offer Sheet, signed by the player and the New Club, which shall contain the Principal Terms (as defined in Article 9) of the New Club’s offer. The Prior Club, within five (5) days from the date it receives the Offer Sheet, may exercise or not exercise its Right of First Refusal, which shall have the consequences set forth in Sections 3(b)–(h), 4 and 6 of Article 9 above, except that no Draft Choice Compensation shall be made with respect to such player, and, for the purposes of those provisions, the player and each Club shall otherwise have the same rights and obligations as for a Restricted Free Agent."

We'll have to let Gipper decipher this one...  The bold stuff sounds contradictory to me...   No compensation, or RFA rights? Does not compute...  

@tour2ma said:

While I would celebrate blowouts over doormats, there's simply not the same level of satisfaction as ripping out hearts in 4th-Qtr, game-winning drives after hard fought battles

You had me at doormats! 

@flugel said:

While beating a division rival in the closing seconds is an absolute thrill; Karma reminds us there's 2 AFC North teams outside of Ohio that need some serious payback. You're buddy Flugel would LOVE to see it happen in the form of a blow out or 2 or 3.... 

While I would celebrate blowouts over doormats, there's simply not the same level of satisfaction as ripping out hearts in 4th-Qtr, game-winning drives after hard fought battles

@hoorta said:

"The transition tag gives Bell more flexibility. That's why he would welcome it. But one option that would not be possible under the transition tag: a sign and trade. The CBA does not allow that.

Hmmmm... yet this is just the scenario, i.e. tag and trade, that the folks on NFL Live talked about all week...

Personally, if it is allowed, I could see some sharp GM signing Bell and then not trading for him. That'd be ROFLMFAO material there...

@gumby73 said:

Not wishing this guy a Happy 83rd Birthday!!    Happy Birthday ?..      

hell man this deserved it's own thread that could be brought up every year

For the next 15 years.

?

WSS

@flugel said:

While beating a division rival in the closing seconds is an absolute thrill; Karma reminds us there's 2 AFC North teams outside of Ohio that need some serious payback. You're buddy Flugel would LOVE to see it happen in the form of a blow out or 2 or 3.... 

...or 4 + 2 IN state!

Mike

@alkid3 said:

Conner is nowhere near as good as Bell. And nobody knows how well the Bengals coach will do. 

Connor may not be as good as Bell, but he's good enough. Regarding the Bengals, we'll see about the new coach. MHO is their nose dive last year can be attributed to the sheer number of injuries they had. We knocked Dalton out, and AJ Green missed over half the season with a bum toe. 12 guys on IR, and a fair number of  them starters.

@tour2ma said:

Just as we are on the verge of being very, very good if not great... the rest of the AFCN is swirling around the bowl.

I was really looking forward to some hard fought Divisional games, but that possibility is looking very flushable...

While beating a division rival in the closing seconds is an absolute thrill; Karma reminds us there's 2 AFC North teams outside of Ohio that need some serious payback. You're buddy Flugel would LOVE to see it happen in the form of a blow out or 2 or 3.... 

@the-gipper said:

See the list of all the other teams players. Seems close to the middle of the  pack  to me. 

I can tell you already that three Pro Bowlers is higher than 16th.

Z

Zombo said:

HOF QB,  Pro Bowl 1,400 yard receiver and and Pro Bowl running back who was on pace for over 1.300 yards and had 12 TDs is "middle of the pack"? Some pack.

Zombo

See the list of all the other teams players. Seems close to the middle of the  pack  to me. 

@tour2ma said:

Just as we are on the verge of being very, very good if not great... the rest of the AFCN is swirling around the bowl.

• Bengals look to have made a good HC hire in Zac Taylor, but they've fallen far and Andy ain't leading 'em back.
• Raven's need a run threat so badly that they will end up getting Jackson killed and while good their D is not good enough to carry the team.
• Then there's the Steelers... they can overcome a lot... never thought they'd replace Bell's production... if AB moves on, I think they'll replace him as well... but Ben is old, as in O-L-D and there's a big old hole in the middle of their D.

I was really looking forward to some hard fought Divisional games, but that possibility is looking very flushable...

I don't know.  I would welcome some laughers for about 10 years.

@the-gipper said:

No. I don't think so.  I think that if you looked at each and every other team in the league....at their QB, top RB, top WR....you would see that they are middle of the pack. 

HOF QB,  Pro Bowl 1,400 yard receiver and and Pro Bowl running back who was on pace for over 1.300 yards and had 12 TDs is "middle of the pack"? Some pack.

Zombo

@choco said:

as per CBA, he can only be traded after the tag if he agrees to it.  thats a crapshoot, but he may agree.

possible to get a comp pick, sure.  can't sign many FA's, or it pushes down that pick value.  which means little immediate help for that team next year.    

Found that out doing more research... 

"The transition tag gives Bell more flexibility. That's why he would welcome it. But one option that would not be possible under the transition tag: a sign and trade. The CBA does not allow that.

What was Bell’s transition tag number supposed to be originally?

Around $17.4 million, or 120 percent of his previous salary."

ESPN article- from last year, though the part about 2019 still applies... 

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/29206/leveon-bell-saga-how-he-gets-to-free-agency-tag-implications-more

And in answer to Gippers question- if Bell never signs an offer sheet, he could sit out another year (he won't) and become a UFA...  But looking at Spotrac, assuming another team offers Bell a front loaded contract, the Steelers aren't going to be in a position to match, they're 6th from the bottom in cap room... 

@hoorta said:

Reading the article, the only conceivable way that happens is if Bell signs a tender offer, the Steelers match, and THEN try to trade him. Fat chance there. Way at the bottom of the article, Vag isn't totally wrong. Just letting Bell walk, instead of screwing him over with the transition tag will net them a compensatory pick in the 2020 draft.

as per CBA, he can only be traded after the tag if he agrees to it.  thats a crapshoot, but he may agree.

possible to get a comp pick, sure.  can't sign many FA's, or it pushes down that pick value.  which means little immediate help for that team next year.    

@the-gipper said:

What if they did that, but Bell never signs the tender?  Does he become a UFA?

RE: they can't match unless Bell signs a tender offer in the first place. Let's assume he does sign one. Would the Steelers be big enough a-holes to match? Bad, bad PR move in my book. 

I have no idea what would happen if he never signs any offer. I'll research it. Probably become a UFA - eventually.

@hoorta said:

Reading the article, the only conceivable way that happens is if Bell signs a tender offer, the Steelers match, and THEN try to trade him. Fat chance there. Way at the bottom of the article, Vag isn't totally wrong. Just letting Bell walk, instead of screwing him over with the transition tag will net them a compensatory pick in the 2020 draft.

What if they did that, but Bell never signs the tender?  Does he become a UFA?  That article does not imply that. Or...when you say "tender offer"   you mean that the Steelers just slap that on him....he does  signs nothing with them....but he is still free to negotiate a contract with another team....and the Steelers have the right to match that deal?

@choco said:

Ah yes, just another example of vag having no clue clue what he's on about. There's no draft pick compensation with the transition tag...it's only right of first refusal. 

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2019/02/14/le-veon-bell-transition-tag-steelers-news-nfl/stories/201902140185

He's quite literally a clueless idiot.

Reading the article, the only conceivable way that happens is if Bell signs a tender offer, the Steelers match, and THEN try to trade him. Fat chance there. Way at the bottom of the article, Vag isn't totally wrong. Just letting Bell walk, instead of screwing him over with the transition tag will net them a compensatory pick in the 2020 draft.

EDIT:  choco's right, the Steelers can't sign a transition player and then try and trade him... 

@hoorta said:

Wishin' and a hopein' and a dreamin' for a potential draft pick.

Ah yes, just another example of vag having no clue clue what he's on about. There's no draft pick compensation with the transition tag...it's only right of first refusal. 

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2019/02/14/le-veon-bell-transition-tag-steelers-news-nfl/stories/201902140185

He's quite literally a clueless idiot.

@vagitron said:

The transition tag gives the steelers leverage and the ability to potentially trade bell. If it jets a 4th it's still a 4th they didn't have before. 

Brown is under contract for two or three more seasons. The situation is completely different than bell.

LOL what kind of leverage do you think you have if the Steelers slap a transition tag on Bell?  Wishin' and a hopein' and a dreamin' for a potential draft pick.  Obviously, GMs of other teams are as dumb as the average Steeler fan- if that's what you think. It's free agency- by another name. Teams will bid on his services, and as in any auction- the bidding will start low. And if Bell doesn't like the lowball offer- he's under no obligation to sign it, and that includes going back to the Steelers... Teams aren't going to start offering draft picks for Bell- unless they have to...   

Regarding Brown- as Gipper said- not really. You may control his contract- but you don't control him. He's already banked around $20 million or so- I'm not going to bother totaling up the exact number. Plenty enough loot to flip the Steelers the bird and sit out as long as necessary if they dick around with him. 

@the-gipper said:

 B. I never commented on Brown's contract situation...other than to say that he will not be with the Steelers next year...and I am only quoting what he is saying...and everyone else.  

Is he the best in the league?  His own teammates did not consider him to be the best on his own team.  Will he put up big numbers?  That remains to be seen...and it could all depend on which QB is throwing to him.  Will teams deal with a diva?  Sure, likely they will try.  But they will NOT pay a high price for a diva.  And sometimes they just get fed up and don't deal with them.   Can you say Terrell Owens?

Brown's teammates considered him to be a primadonna dick-  probably the reason Ju-Ju got team MVP. And as I pointed out, teams with playoff aspirations aren't going to bid high- if he can't coexist with Ju-Ju, you think the Colts (Ty Hilton) or Houston (Deandre Hopkins) are gonna want to deal with a head case who sits out games with phantom injuries and wants to be the top dog? Wake up Vag- talent aside, Antonio's antics definitely have torpedoed his trade value.   

@hoorta said:

Guy is at the end of the line.. will be 41 in May....  

Not gonna be missed, outside of Pittsburgh. Almost single handedly responsible for the NFL instituting the helmet to helmet and leading with the helmet penalties...  

And you both whiffed on the point. HGH was brought back because he was the man...so he was told. Gave the hometown discount for a guy that won them a superb owl. Learned during the season the shit Tomlin fed him was a reduced role...he checked out.

Everyone in that lockerrom saw how HGH did it...am I to believe it's a coincidence it's happened twice since in a calendar year?