What?  Me OVER-REACT? 

OOH, nice play on words there.

@clevfan4life said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-women-robert-kraft-received-massages-from-likely-not-trafficked/ar-BBU7ueO?li=BBnbfcL

The women he solicited were citizens....one was the spa manager. They both had valid state drivers liscrnses as well as massage liscenses. Just decent hardworking murican girls getting caught up in this bullshit, let em work i say !!!!

??

Yeah, Mother Teresa - eat your heart out!  God Bless ya Clevsies!  I don't know what I enjoyed more - the Spin Doctor Shakespeare or the return of Ghoolie's speel chekkker. 

I'm sure Robert Kraft's young girl friend is ecstatic they are employed.  This way she can just continue to be his hot little eye candy while the complete strangers in Florida can working girl out some real happily ever after on the viagra.

The fact that some possess a driver's license and 1 is a Manager of a place that services patrons with people that are being trafficked really warms and fuzzies this up... I can almost see why Kraft got all that guilt-free groinal warming.   It almost makes us forget the place is supposed to be a massage parlor instead of a prostitution ring for millionaires and billionaires. These above the law kind of guys can just plead not guilty while reminding us what they put on cameras and microphones can easily be dismissed as fake news.  It's a GREAT country when Sex Rings don't have to cloud up Six Rings. 

Phew!!!

@the-gipper said:

Yep. So then let's change Big Ben in the scenario to Jimmy G.

@gunz41 said:

Yep, that's why he popped in my head. 

@dutch-oven said:

So you now pick an Italian QB to be your hypothetical strip club owner? Is it because you think strip clubs are trashy, crime-ridden businesses so you naturally pick an Italian as someone who would own them? How dare you, sir. How dare you. 

?

I don't know about that I remember in the 70s, 80s (my college days) a really nice one owned and run by some YPD cops with uniformed YPD cops at the door checking IDs, super nice safe clean place.

The dancers were about 90% college girls working the Cleveland to Pittsburgh circuit. Great place to watch the show and buy the girls some way overpriced cocktails (generally Sprite). Those girls made WAY more than me in the mill.

The upstairs was nice too.....from what I heard, never went there.  

@the-gipper said:

It’s because Jimmy Garoppolo was dating that porn star. 

Yep, that's why he popped in my head. 

@dutch-oven said:

So you now pick an Italian QB to be your hypothetical strip club owner? Is it because you think strip clubs are trashy, crime-ridden businesses so you naturally pick an Italian as someone who would own them? How dare you, sir. How dare you. 

?

It’s because Jimmy Garoppolo was dating that porn star. 

@gunz41 said:

Well I don't know about that one way or another, I was just picking a QB out, and making sure it was a white one so it couldn't be said racially, and 1st thing that popped in my head. Use Jimmy G instead of Big Ben.

So you now pick an Italian QB to be your hypothetical strip club owner? Is it because you think strip clubs are trashy, crime-ridden businesses so you naturally pick an Italian as someone who would own them? How dare you, sir. How dare you. 

?

@dutch-oven said:

Ridiculous.

Ben found Jesus. Haven't you seen him pointing up towards the sky on the regular? 

Jesus ain't down with glitter-covered titties. 

Well I don't know about that one way or another, I was just picking a QB out, and making sure it was a white one so it couldn't be said racially, and 1st thing that popped in my head. Use Jimmy G instead of Big Ben.

@ballpeen said:

Heck, I can see Ben owning a chain of strip clubs.

Ridiculous.

Ben found Jesus. Haven't you seen him pointing up towards the sky on the regular? 

Jesus ain't down with glitter-covered titties. 

@choco said:

couldnt have missed the point anymore...when someone says, "i dont think kraft would have...." it typically means "i dont think I would have..." 

unless you have a billion dollars, how can you even fathom how one would act?  i dont know what i would do with that much money, but i dont have any problems being honest with myself.  maybe i'd grab a kilo, go bang high end girls, -buy a football team and enjoy the limelight.  perhaps, if i was inclined, maybe id want a constant supply of foreign girls that i can use at any time.  frankly, none of us know anything about kraft other than whats in the media, so how about refraining from "knowing" what another person would do?

Where did someone say they "know" what he would do? I went back and I didn't see it, but maybe I missed it.

But you make a great point, nobody here really knows him. But then why hasn't anyone said they would feel the exact same if it came out about someone else, i.e. Baker Mayfield, Joe Thomas, Lebron James? If anyone would feel differently with them, or someone else famous, that quickly or before everything comes out then that is either a bias or preconceived notion.

And although I see your point, I will have to disagree when someone thinks, "I find it hard to believe *insert name* would do that" is really thinking "I wouldn't do that." Its more of the I see their perceived history, what they have to lose, and seems out of character.

Use something less nefarious, I can't see Steph Curry being involved in brawl, but I can see DeMarcus Cousins in one. Or I cant see Tim Tebow going to a strip club, but I can see Ben Roethlisberger in one.

...??

The women he solicited were citizens....one was the spa manager. They both had valid state drivers liscrnses as well as massage liscenses. Just decent hardworking murican girls getting caught up in this bullshit, let em work i say !!!!

??

@atom said:

grabbing a kilo and banging girls would seem like the logical thing to do

Seriously, you got to spend it on something right?

WSS

@choco said:

couldnt have missed the point anymore...when someone says, "i dont think kraft would have...." it typically means "i dont think I would have..." 

unless you have a billion dollars, how can you even fathom how one would act?  i dont know what i would do with that much money, but i dont have any problems being honest with myself.  maybe i'd grab a kilo, go bang high end girls, -buy a football team and enjoy the limelight.  perhaps, if i was inclined, maybe id want a constant supply of foreign girls that i can use at any time.  frankly, none of us know anything about kraft other than whats in the media, so how about refraining from "knowing" what another person would do?

grabbing a kilo and banging girls would seem like the logical thing to do

@hoorta said:

When does it become "human trafficking" and not a prostitute\ pimp situation? Hmmm, the under cover guys slips the girls an extra hundred and tells them you didn't see me plant that camera?

Not saying this isn't what Flugels says it is, or human trafficking doesn't exist in the USA, but the way this was handled is mighty odd.

I think the basic thing is to say:  have they been brought in against their will?  Are they doing what they are doing essentially against their will?  Are they free to come and go (no pun intended)  as they choose?  Can they quit and go home...or go wherever they want at any time?  Lots of people have jobs they may not like or want to do...but keep them for the money they can make.  But they are not slaves to it.  The real question is:  are these girls/women slaves to it?

@the-gipper said:

Well...that is why I question the focus of the investigation.  It sounds almost like it is just being given superficial treatment.  They seem to have gone for the quick easy collars:    grab a few of the Johns.   The hard stuff....the important stuff...the stuff you delineate that needs to be done in this investigation into human trafficking seems perhaps to have been given short shrift.  With some high profile arrests of a few Johns....the actual traffickers will see that and close up and move out before the authorities are able to get after them. 

To use an analogy....it seems that they have busted a few guys for possession of a few meth tablets.....but have failed to go after the dealers/the manufacturers, the head of the cartel.   (But at least in that venue...they HAVE gone after the head of one cartel...El Chapo, it seems)  Do they have a bead on identifying and arresting the El Chapo of the sex traffic trade?  Seems, perhaps not.  (of course, we don't know....but it seems that way)

When does it become "human trafficking" and not a prostitute\ pimp situation? Hmmm, the under cover guys slips the girls an extra hundred and tells them you didn't see me plant that camera? Somebody had to know they were being watched.

Not saying this isn't what Flugels says it is, or human trafficking doesn't exist in the USA, but the way this was handled is mighty odd.

@flugel said:

Why wait?   Great question Larry; but it is Florida where the most recent state elections still necessitated recounts.

That said.  The place was being investigated for trafficking and prostitution.  Now there's a bunch of arrests for soliciting prostitution thanks in large to cameras helping to expedite proof of sexual activity. My guess is the suspected trafficking stuff takes longer to research fully and prove.  For example, some of the Asian Employees were sleeping/living there which seems like something pretty important to dig deeper on in investigations such as why? how long?  etc... Then, it's how did they get there and where are they from and even how old are they.  Also, what keeps them there?  I'm sure there's way more to research.

Busting 25 high profile Johns might not make you and others happy Larry - but it might open enough blind eyes to what and where human trafficking can go.  I KEEP hearing human trafficking is a huge problem and yet I've rarely read/heard about any arrests for it anywhere in this country for such a big alleged problem. Even in this case, the people that are getting arrested are getting arrested for solicitation of prostitution (not trafficking).  They have to peel off layers to get to the trafficking and who's responsible. 

Well...that is why I question the focus of the investigation.  It sounds almost like it is just being given superficial treatment.  They seem to have gone for the quick easy collars:    grab a few of the Johns.   The hard stuff....the important stuff...the stuff you delineate that needs to be done in this investigation into human trafficking seems perhaps to have been given short shrift.  With some high profile arrests of a few Johns....the actual traffickers will see that and close up and move out before the authorities are able to get after them. 

To use an analogy....it seems that they have busted a few guys for possession of a few meth tablets.....but have failed to go after the dealers/the manufacturers, the head of the cartel.   (But at least in that venue...they HAVE gone after the head of one cartel...El Chapo, it seems)  Do they have a bead on identifying and arresting the El Chapo of the sex traffic trade?  Seems, perhaps not.  (of course, we don't know....but it seems that way)

@hoorta said:

I'll wait until some of that research is verified Flugs...  

If there was suspected sex trafficking going on- why wait months, instead of shutting down the places immediately? So they could bust some high profile Johns? 

Why wait?   Great question Larry; but it is Florida where the most recent state elections still necessitated recounts.

That said.  The place was being investigated for trafficking and prostitution.  Now there's a bunch of arrests for soliciting prostitution thanks in large to cameras helping to expedite proof of sexual activity. My guess is the suspected trafficking stuff takes longer to research fully and prove.  For example, some of the Asian Employees were sleeping/living there which seems like something pretty important to dig deeper on in investigations such as why? how long?  etc... Then, it's how did they get there and where are they from and even how old are they.  Also, what keeps them there?  I'm sure there's way more to research.

Busting 25 high profile Johns might not make you and others happy Larry - but it might open enough blind eyes to what and where human trafficking can go.  I KEEP hearing human trafficking is a huge problem and yet I've rarely read/heard about any arrests for it anywhere in this country for such a big alleged problem. Even in this case, the people that are getting arrested are getting arrested for solicitation of prostitution (not trafficking).  They have to peel off layers to get to the trafficking and who's responsible. 

@westside-steve said:

And how long had this been going on under the full knowledge of the authorities and to what purpose? 

WSS

Even if a few hours it was to long.  Seems the attitude was "she has already licked one lollypop, what's another 20?"

@the-gipper said:

I have only been tangentially following this story......but....as a lawyer....I kind of have questions about the focus of this investigation. (and what I have to say has nothing to do with Robert Kraft....unless in fact he knew about and was involved in  the sex trafficking and essential "slavery" of the women involved):

Was the focus to  stop the "sex slave ring"?   Or merely to catch the Johns who were patronizing the place?

I heard that they arrested anywhere from 25 ot 200 hundred "patrons".

I also hear that they have video tape of these guys doing what they..and the women did?

So, I have to ask:  IF their target were the operators of the facility...and IF their goal was to "rescue" if you will the women being held against their will....then how the hell did they get videotape? 

It seems that the police almost would have have to had permission from the proprietors to do the filming....unless it was somehow done surreptitiously.  Should not the proprietors have been the main people they were after?

And if they were wanting to "free" the women.....why would they allow things to go on through hundreds of videos.....and why would the investigators allow these women to undergo hundreds of supposedly "forced or involuntary"  sex acts before they did something about it?

Why, upon having some indication that it was indeed a "sex slave" operation, would the police not have immediately gone in and  questioned the proprietors and questioned the women, and close the place down.....instead of allowing what I heard was about 200 people undertake the "services" being provided by this place. 

It reeks of something being rotten in Denmark.....It looks possibly that they were just trying to catch Johns....and not bust up an operation where these women were being held against their will.

These would be some of the questions that Kraft's lawyers could likely bring up (not that that would necessarily be a defense to paying for a hooker).

Without going into even more about Kraft, as I still think my point is correct (and that is even with saying he could be guilty), what you are saying is very interesting. If the agenda was to stop trafficking, then the months long sting just doesn't look good. 

From an article I read (isnt it amazing guys, I can read), it sounds like it's been going on for months, and after allegedly having evidence they were allowed to use hidden cameras. I also read that they were interviewing patrons after they came out.

Even if all the reports are true, something just doesn't add up. It doesn't make sense that a criminal organization would be that oblivious and not have protection for themselves. And if what some have suggested (no not just on here) that just assumed that people going to this place had to be involved with illegal things, well then if everyone doing that then undercover agents would have participated as well. 

@hoorta said:

I'll wait until some of that research is verified Flugs...  

If there was suspected sex trafficking going on- why wait months, instead of shutting down the places immediately? So they could bust some high profile Johns? 

Again, precisely.