Justin_Gilbert2019 said:

No

  We shall see 

Justin_Gilbert2019 said:

The problem is Cleveland has been a complete poop stain of an excuse of a franchise and they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt or anything close to it 

But is that now going to change?

@bjh2130 said:

Sorry poor choice of wording. Yes reason to get upset that refs suck but no reason to bitch and claim a team would have been in playoffs if not for game changing calls.

It’s water over the dam. It doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Had the Steelers not lost to the broncos or the raiders it wouldn’t have mattered. However one fact remains the Steelers beat the chargers and the saints if not for horrible calls.

@vagitron said:

Look I don’t give a shit who the calls were against. They were bad calls all around, calls that shouldn’t happen. The end. No reason to get upset? Plenty of reasons to be upset.

Sorry poor choice of wording. Yes reason to get upset that refs suck but no reason to bitch and claim a team would have been in playoffs if not for game changing calls.

@bjh2130 said:

And the browns were on the wrong end of at least 3 flat out game changing calls. So still no reason to get upset.

Look I don’t give a shit who the calls were against. They were bad calls all around, calls that shouldn’t happen. The end. No reason to get upset? Plenty of reasons to be upset.

@vagitron said:

There are bad calls and there are flat out game changing calls. The saints fan base after we got screwed said "good teams overcome bad calls" until it happened to them in the playoffs and they were less than pleased. Nfl officiating is inconsistent, and down right bad far more often than it ever should be and it's something the league needs to acknowledge. 

And the browns were on the wrong end of at least 3 flat out game changing calls. So still no reason to get upset.

@vagitron said:

There are bad calls and there are flat out game changing calls. The saints fan base after we got screwed said "good teams overcome bad calls" until it happened to them in the playoffs and they were less than pleased. Nfl officiating is inconsistent, and down right bad far more often than it ever should be and it's something the league needs to acknowledge. 

Correct...and the Steelers throughout recent history (since merger) have gotten a disproportionate amount of the game changers in their favor....go back to that video I put up from the Siper era.  It has been that way ever since. Maybe that will not change. Maybe the Spermsuckers will not receive the benefit of the doubt, now that Dan Rooney has passed on.

@vagitron said:

Not to an extent, every team that wins has a bandwagon but the collapse of the steel industry happened and the economy in Pittsburgh collapsed for a period of time. People 100% had to move. I also hate the Americas team label and it was The chief that turned it down. I think it was sabol that asked and rooney said no, we aren't Americas team. We are the Pittsburgh steelers. Documented fact for ole nickers

We were not talking about the FRAKS that jumped on the Steelers bandwagon, we were talking about all the people from Pittsburgh and from Cleveland that had to move to the south and the west because of the economy  who still maintained their loyalties.

A fare share of the "take over the home team stadium" group were just those:  expatriot Pittsburgers or Clevelanders.  

I have no doubt though that some fair share of those people these days that attend Steeler away games are fucking FRAKs.  I doubt that there are many Browns FRAKs out there....because, after all, the Browns haven't won under the control of the likes of the later Modell, Randy Learner, Jimmy Haslam. 

Maybe, maybe, if they start winning big again,  we shall see if the Browns fans can dominate enemy territory like they once did.  That would have to be accomplished to a great extent by the long time (older?) loyalists...and I think that will happen to an extent.  But the Browns should not have the FRAK mob on their side. Not yet.  They haven't accomplished anything yet except giving of some good vibes and some hope for the future.  That alone does not win you football games however....as I believe you had pointed out.

@bjh2130 said:

The Ravens/Browns game the Oakland/Browns game the Tampa Bay/Browns game the Chargers/Browns game the Steelers/Browns game. Do not complain about bad calls, every team gets them. Just the Oakland game and the Tampa game, which those calls were on what would have been the last drive of the game if our field goal kicker hits a chip shot against Tampa Bay, would have had the Browns with the best record in the AFC North. However had the Browns won the Oakland game maybe Hue Jackson doesn't get fired when he does so maybe the season doesn't play out the same way. My point isn't to gripe and say Browns would have been in the playoffs if not for bad calls. My point is there bad calls all throughout the NFL so you shouldn't bitch.

There are bad calls and there are flat out game changing calls. The saints fan base after we got screwed said "good teams overcome bad calls" until it happened to them in the playoffs and they were less than pleased. Nfl officiating is inconsistent, and down right bad far more often than it ever should be and it's something the league needs to acknowledge. 

@the-gipper said:

Yes, to an extent.  The same was true for the Browns during the 80s. (manufacturing economy collapse..thanks Reagan).  Browns fan dominated many away games. But when you have 25 years of suck....that trailed off a bit.

If the Browns do get back to a position of dominance, it could be like nothing you have seen before.

And I always hated the whole America's Team label.  I never want to see that use with the Browns.

Not to an extent, every team that wins has a bandwagon but the collapse of the steel industry happened and the economy in Pittsburgh collapsed for a period of time. People 100% had to move. I also hate the Americas team label and it was The chief that turned it down. I think it was sabol that asked and rooney said no, we aren't Americas team. We are the Pittsburgh steelers. Documented fact for ole nickers

@hoorta said:

You won't even see them in the top 25. Cleveland all the way down to #52.  http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/

Kind crazy Cleveland was that large.  I suspect some of that is new suburbs popping up and making the city smaller.  

No wonder traffic is so good there.  At least compared to anywhere in Socal. 

@vagitron said:

Chargers and saints. The ravens/browns game was a shit show too.

The Ravens/Browns game the Oakland/Browns game the Tampa Bay/Browns game the Chargers/Browns game the Steelers/Browns game. Do not complain about bad calls, every team gets them. Just the Oakland game and the Tampa game, which those calls were on what would have been the last drive of the game if our field goal kicker hits a chip shot against Tampa Bay, would have had the Browns with the best record in the AFC North. However had the Browns won the Oakland game maybe Hue Jackson doesn't get fired when he does so maybe the season doesn't play out the same way. My point isn't to gripe and say Browns would have been in the playoffs if not for bad calls. My point is there bad calls all throughout the NFL so you shouldn't bitch.

@the-gipper said:

I guess you are not getting it.   There are/were a lot of Browns..and Steelers fans in a lot of other parts of this country because a lot of people had to move out of this area because all those so called "Rust Belt"  jobs dried up in these parts.  Maybe you are too young to remember things. 

Just in little old Barberton here alone,  PPG went from 1500 to  150 jobs.  Seiberling rubber shut down after having @1000 employees, same with Rockwell, same with Ohio Brass.  B&W underwent drastic cuts.    This all happened in the late 70s and early 80s.  

Why did it happen?  A.  The oil crisis   B. Companies wanting to fuck the unions and send the jobs to the south...or overseas where people would work dirt cheap and the fat cats could pocket more of the money (just look at the stats of how CEO compensation rose from like 25 times the average worker salary to 500 times)  C. Technology certainly.  And others

Steeler mills closed down.  Auto manufacturing closed down. etc. etc.  People had to go to Houston to find a job in the oil fields.  The sweat belt found the miracle of air conditioning. 

Here were the 10 most populous cities in the US in 1960:

You won't even see them in the top 25. Cleveland all the way down to #52.  http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/

@nickers said:

I really don't care.. I'm more concerned about what's in front of as a team and a season...

Maybe you don't care....but you have learned something.

@the-gipper said:

I guess you are not getting it.   There are/were a lot of Browns..and Steelers fans in a lot of other parts of this country because a lot of people had to move out of this area because all those so called "Rust Belt"  jobs dried up in these parts.  Maybe you are too young to remember things. 

Just in little old Barberton here alone,  PPG went from 1500 to  150 jobs.  Seiberling rubber shut down after having @1000 employees, same with Rockwell, same with Ohio Brass.  B&W underwent drastic cuts.    This all happened in the late 70s and early 80s.  

Why did it happen?  A.  The oil crisis   B. Companies wanting to fuck the unions and send the jobs to the south...or overseas where people would work dirt cheap and the fat cats could pocket more of the money (just look at the stats of how CEO compensation rose from like 25 times the average worker salary to 500 times)  C. Technology certainly.  And others

Steeler mills closed down.  Auto manufacturing closed down. etc. etc.  People had to go to Houston to find a job in the oil fields.  The sweat belt found the miracle of air conditioning. 

Here were the 10 most populous cities in the US in 1960:

I really don't care.. I'm more concerned about what's in front of as a team and a season...

@nickers said:

I don't see how families being displaced has any bearing on Fandom.. You're a fan.. Or you're not... Frak or no Frak..

I guess you are not getting it.   There are/were a lot of Browns..and Steelers fans in a lot of other parts of this country because a lot of people had to move out of this area because all those so called "Rust Belt"  jobs dried up in these parts.  Maybe you are too young to remember things. 

Just in little old Barberton here alone,  PPG went from 1500 to  150 jobs.  Seiberling rubber shut down after having @1000 employees, same with Rockwell, same with Ohio Brass.  B&W underwent drastic cuts.    This all happened in the late 70s and early 80s.  

Why did it happen?  A.  The oil crisis   B. Companies wanting to fuck the unions and send the jobs to the south...or overseas where people would work dirt cheap and the fat cats could pocket more of the money (just look at the stats of how CEO compensation rose from like 25 times the average worker salary to 500 times)  C. Technology certainly.  And others

Steeler mills closed down.  Auto manufacturing closed down. etc. etc.  People had to go to Houston to find a job in the oil fields.  The sweat belt found the miracle of air conditioning. 

Here were the 10 most populous cities in the US in 1960:

@the-gipper said:

No, he is right.  A lot of that did in fact happen....and as I said, the same with Cleveland are people being disbursed. 

The Steelers did get a lot more FRAKs to jump on board....because they won.   But they will likely quickly jump off if the Steelers go bad. And if the Browns go good there will certainly be a share of FRAKs on our bandwagon.

I don't see how families being displaced has any bearing on Fandom.. You're a fan.. Or you're not... Frak or no Frak..

@nickers said:

Whatevs.. More bullshit spewing from your mouth as usual..

No, he is right.  A lot of that did in fact happen....and as I said, the same with Cleveland are people being disbursed. 

The Steelers did get a lot more FRAKs to jump on board....because they won.   But they will likely quickly jump off if the Steelers go bad. And if the Browns go good there will certainly be a share of FRAKs on our bandwagon.

@vagitron said:

Actually the steelers turned down the whole america's team mantra and then it became  the Cowboys.

And you are going to hear about the steelers traveling well because when the steel industry collapsed families were displaced for work reasons and the steelers had just come off four super bowl wins. The Fandom went with those families all over the country.

Yes, to an extent.  The same was true for the Browns during the 80s. (manufacturing economy collapse..thanks Reagan).  Browns fan dominated many away games. But when you have 25 years of suck....that trailed off a bit.

If the Browns do get back to a position of dominance, it could be like nothing you have seen before.

And I always hated the whole America's Team label.  I never want to see that use with the Browns.

@vagitron said:

Actually the steelers turned down the whole america's team mantra and then it became  the Cowboys.

And you are going to hear about the steelers traveling well because when the steel industry collapsed families were displaced for work reasons and the steelers had just come off four super bowl wins. The Fandom went with those families all over the country.

Whatevs.. More bullshit spewing from your mouth as usual..

@nickers said:

It'll be interesting with all of the star power we have now , how the calls will shake out.. Especially now everyone acknowledges that were "Americas Team".. We always have been Americas team.. We just sucked for the last 1/4 century.... There is no other team with the world wide backers clubs like the Browns do.. And please.. I don't need some idiot saying.. "Steelers fans travel well".. My cousin darren was born here and raised in the dakotas and now lives in the seattle area.. Sadly.. He is a Stooler FRAK.. And I let him know it!

Actually the steelers turned down the whole america's team mantra and then it became  the Cowboys.

And you are going to hear about the steelers traveling well because when the steel industry collapsed families were displaced for work reasons and the steelers had just come off four super bowl wins. The Fandom went with those families all over the country.

@the-gipper said:

Two TDs overturned on phantom holding calls.  And the fumble in OT "blown dead"?   If ever a game was fixed.

It'll be interesting with all of the star power we have now , how the calls will shake out.. Especially now everyone acknowledges that were "Americas Team".. We always have been Americas team.. We just sucked for the last 1/4 century.... There is no other team with the world wide backers clubs like the Browns do.. And please.. I don't need some idiot saying.. "Steelers fans travel well".. My cousin darren was born here and raised in the dakotas and now lives in the seattle area.. Sadly.. He is a Stooler FRAK.. And I let him know it!

@nickers said:

I remember that game.. we had to play the fucking refs too.. Just watching this makes my blood boil...Everyone of those calls was completely fabricated and bogus... Good or bad teams can't overcome made up calls...

Two TDs overturned on phantom holding calls.  And the fumble in OT "blown dead"?   If ever a game was fixed.

@the-gipper said:

Again, no sympathy for you.  None whatsoever, going all the way back.

I remember that game.. we had to play the fucking refs too.. Just watching this makes my blood boil...Everyone of those calls was completely fabricated and bogus... Good or bad teams can't overcome made up calls...