@tour2ma said:

I thought maybe you had some examples you might like to share...

You mean like running back? I kinda thought it was obvious to most. At least around Cleveland we know we have more depth. Too deep?

@flyingfooldoug said:

Yes, that’s what I wrote. 

I thought maybe you had some examples you might like to share...

@tour2ma said:

We do?

Yes, that’s what I wrote. 

@texasag1969 said:

True but every year a team that should have gone deep in the playoffs does not because of too many key injuries and a team or two with none gets there despite the odds going in. I want us to be the latter.

I've pointed out before, not necessarily making the playoffs, but costing you a bunch of wins. Living in Bengal territory- I'll posit some of their poor record was due to the rash of injuries they had. Eifert was out nearly the entire year, Dalton and AJ Green essentially missed 1\2 the season. How would the Browns do if the same happened to Baker, Landry, and Njoku? 

Now some of the following stats are skewed with non-contributors on both teams sitting out the entire season so take it FWIW.  

Looking at pro football reference the Bengals had an astounding 250+ player\games missed either due to "out" or "IR".  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2018_injuries.htm

By comparison the Browns were around 200 https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2018_injuries.htm 

@flyingfooldoug said:

Now we have second teamers  that could be starters on other teams. 

We do?

@texasag1969 said:

True but every year a team that should have gone deep in the playoffs does not because of too many key injuries and a team or two with none gets there despite the odds going in. I want us to be the latter.

True but? Lol

@flyingfooldoug said:

Every year every team deals with injuries. If you have depth of talent, you’re in pretty good shape. Our team has been the model for otherwise

True but every year a team that should have gone deep in the playoffs does not because of too many key injuries and a team or two with none gets there despite the odds going in. I want us to be the latter.

@texasag1969 said:

Hopefully we don't have to find that out for certain this year. I prefer not to test your theory.??

Every year every team deals with injuries. If you have depth of talent, you’re in pretty good shape. Our team has been the model for otherwise

@flyingfooldoug said:

Dorsey has put together a team that has depth. Year in, year out, half decent starter gets hurt, no quality backup. Now we have second teamers  that could be starters on other teams. 

Hopefully we don't have to find that out for certain this year. I prefer not to test your theory.??

Zombo said:

I think the one thing I had wrong this offseason is Linebacker. I think they REALLY value Genard Avery, and I think Kirkseys leadership and ability registers higher than I thought.

I expected a bigger turnover/addition.

Z

I think your right..If were talking Chad Thomas/Smith/Avery getting more reps? Vernon has no issue lining up at linebacker either..Any of them.Giants did.The LB Dorse picked up from TB, ain't no joker either. Let's Move to Simmons..Only 2 teams with Pro Day & Private meeting equals Browns & Colts. Private only-TB(PICKS-#5 & 2.7)/KC(29)/Colts(26 &2.2)/Mia.(13 & 2.16)/Oak.(4-24-27 & 2.3)/Sea.(21)/Texans(23)/Vikings (18)..2 additional teams just showed at Pro Day/ Eagles(25) & Jags (7 & 2.6)..Combined teams keeping picks would have to pass on Simmons 17 times that had visits..before the Browns pick at #49..I just don't see that happening with Simmons on field talents..and Simmons may not even be the name on the card with Dorsey   

Zombo said:

I think the one thing I had wrong this offseason is Linebacker. I think they REALLY value Genard Avery, and I think Kirkseys leadership and ability registers higher than I thought.

I expected a bigger turnover/addition.

Z

If the DL does a far better job of keeping the OL off of the LB's you may end up being right. That said, I'd give up a lot to get Devin White right there in the middle. He's going to be a great one.

I expected a bigger turnover/addition.

Z

       Many good questions thrown at the Dorsey.Duke? LB? CB? Simmons? Trade UP? .Enjoy some Media card shuffling.. 

@gumby73 said:

Dorsey's pre draft presser is on the books for Thursday the 18th..Grossi is preparing for a big bag of rocks.. https://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland/post/_/id/6452/fact-checking-john-dorseys-final-pre-draft-comments-a-year-ago  have not seen time of presser..  

Grossi did not know then... and he does not know now...

@calfoxwc said:

   I don't see a trade that high up, too expensive. A) I can see a trade up to one of Oakland's picks - they have three - to a team that picks towards the bottom  of the first, B)top of the second....

A) trading up just to Rams #30 should cost #49 & #80,to the exact penny. to Oak another 80 points= our 4th #119 & 5th #170..B) getting to top of 2nd round with Zona taking #49 would cost pick #80 with Zona returning their top 6th round pick...Overall your losing next years 1st to Mia.& same 2nd & 3rd, with gaining the rights to the possible crop of...OT=Jonah Williams/Dillard..DT=Oliver or Simmons/LB-Devin Bush or White/CB=Greedy Williams or Byron Murphy/and a shoe-in TE in Hockenson..or stand as is? bottom line imo,Does Dorsey trust his magic words of "at pick #17 the 1st round talent value, comes into questions"..11 days away, a puzzle piece will either fit or maybe it won't..

@gumby73 said:

Good stuff Flug?..got a rumoriest down in Mia., to keep your eyes on....Edit-- If your a draft pick conservative, tight cap minded Browns fan? This may not be for you?    https://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/11/is-cleveland-a-possible-trade-back-partner-for-miami/    

   I don't see a trade that high up, too expensive. I can see a trade up to one of Oakland's picks - they have three - to a team that picks towards the bottom  of the first, top of the second....

@the-gipper said:

Flugs:   I agree, DQJ was always a guy I pointed to who had a lot of tackles....5 yards too late.  Though I am not sure that I recall seeing him improve later in his career.  Maybe he did and I did not notice.

Thanks for sharing that Gips.  The area I though he improved most at was where he was making the majority of his tackles (after we went to the 4-3).  Most of these were now at the point of attack/LOS rather than 10-20 yards downfield from pursuit angles (which wasn't always his fault).  His overall tackle volume decreased which can happen to a guy if his defense gets off the field quicker.  I don't know if you remember Shep (or if he left before you arrived); but he used to judge LBers by how many tackles they made. If an opponent throws to LB's hook zone 20 times and he makes the tackle every single time - he has to be an All Pro in his book rather than being seen as the opponent's opportunity to exploit in the game plan.  Then I'd ask - have you ever noticed a guy like Teddy Bruschi who prolly has half the foot speed Jackson has but come playoff time against the better competition - Bruschi seemed to a knack for intercepting a pass at the right time or batting it down rather than making the tackle after arriving late.  When we got to the 4-3.  I thought Jackson also improved at getting back to the depth of his zone quicker and defending passes in lieu of always having to make the tackle from getting there a second too late.  In my previous post - I talked about what led to a better instinct and quicker reaction from D'Qwell.  

@gumby73 said:

some team will pay Zach Brown about 6M to wreck the running game plan. why not us? I don't get why Zach gets bounced around year after year..He's from UNC, now 29, and i keep a eye on him..Tenn./Bills/Skins/who's next?

Interesting Gumbs!  He had very short tenures on his last 2 teams in Washington and Buffalo after he didn't get a 2nd contract in TN. While Zach Brown has good stop watch and good tackle volumes (especially in Buffalo) - I wonder if he lacks the 1st step instinct of a keeper. 

Sometimes guys make a lot of tackles because they're consistently the bullseyes of the opponents' game plans. That being the case, you have to ask are these tackles being made in Wali Rainer territory (too far downfield)?  Or, are they made at the point of attack via good 1st step instinct from the LBer?  Mike Johnson from Va Tech (and the USFL) was my favorite ILB here.  Not a big dude at all especially for an ILB; but his 1st step instinct often got him to ball carriers before the Big Uglies could exploit their size advantage.  He used to devour teams that liked to trap and pull their guards frequently. 

Having said all that, I remembered thinking D'Qwell Jackson was overrated via his tackle volume in the sense of where most of those occurred in relation to the point of attack.  He made a ton of tackles in pursuit downfield, which showed me an admirable quality of guy that never gave up on plays.  That said, I wanted an ILBer best known for smothering plays at the point of attack which ultimately helps the D get off the field.   When we switched to a 4-3 this was a game changer for Jackson IMO.   We also added veteran LB Scot Fujita around this time; and I remembered Jackson saying how helpful he was to him in the film room particularly at identifying pre snap keys and reads.  IMO, Jackson began making way more tackles at the LOS/point of attack which wasn't hard to appreciate at all.  He finally played at the level I expected from his foot speed.  No reason something like this can't happen for Zach Brown in the right scheme at the right price...