@logicisforsquares said:

Jesus was fine in terms of being a human being. No doubt seemed like a nice enough guy. I just don't believe in the elements of the story where he is a super wizard zombie.

Yet if He didn't rise from death then what was His life all about? Jesus made clear He was God who spoke to Moses.  Moses asked whom should he say is sending him to speak with Pharaoh and God said say "I am that I am". In the gospel of John, Jesus  declares Himself to be the "I am" repeatedly.  The Jews knew exactly what He meant when He said that and wanted to kill him for saying such blasphemy. 

The bible is a living word. I have studied it for decades and am still learning new things. There is no other book like it. For example I have read the passage of scripture many times when they looked into the empty tomb and saw two angels, one sitting at the feet and one was sitting at the head of where Jesus laid.  I never saw any significance to it then recently I "saw " it. I remembered the lid of the ark and the two angels gazing down at the ark of the covenant. 

New International Version John 20:12
"and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot."

@calfoxwc said:

this is true. Way back in my church days, there are these judgers and power verse users in the church we all went to. It went through 3 freaking dramatic hateful church split controversies.

    Early on, I was fond of telling our Bible Study group that "church is a great place to visit unless there are people there".

And I hope you get back to church someday but even if not you know the bible well enough to know that church membership alone never saves anyone. 

@oldbrownsfan said:

Are there some shysters today making money off the gospel. Sure. But if I focused on these cons I would become as cynical as you. There is nothing new under the sun, they had those types in the days of the Apostle Paul too. I follow the Jesus of the bible. If He were only  out to deceive and profit for what He did then He failed miserably. NO it was all for us and it was all a gift that costs us nothing but the rewards are eternal. Finding fault with Christians is too easy (and many times we Christians make it too easy because we don't measure up). The real challenge for you is to find fault with Jesus.

Jesus was fine in terms of being a human being. No doubt seemed like a nice enough guy. I just don't believe in the elements of the story where he is a super wizard zombie.

@gorka said:

The word of God is not a concept...am I rite OBF?

Right. It is the word of God. Until one believes that then really they are just making up their own faith. On every issue it is not what we think about the issue that counts but what does the bible teach about it. And I will go with what the bible teaches every time. In these last days though what the bible teaches (truth) sounds like hate to many. 

@tiamat63 said:

Most anybody won't find fault with a rock solid person whose highest commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself.

Fault is found in Christians and other believers that have taken a beautiful concept, overly structured it, then damn others in Jesus' name.  Like they have any grasp on the extent of God's judgement.  Many simply wield the word of God as an extension of power over others.

This is where the fault is found.

The word of God is not a concept...am I rite OBF?

@tiamat63 said:

Most anybody won't find fault with a rock solid person whose highest commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself.

Fault is found in Christians and other believers that have taken a beautiful concept, overly structured it, then damn others in Jesus' name.  Like they have any grasp on the extent of God's judgement.  Many simply wield the word of God as an extension of power over others.

This is where the fault is found.

this is true. Way back in my church days, there are these judgers and power verse users in the church we all went to. It went through 3 freaking dramatic hateful church split controversies.

    Early on, I was fond of telling our Bible Study group that "church is a great place to visit unless there are people there".

@tiamat63 said:

Most anybody won't find fault with a rock solid person whose highest commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself.

Yes they will. The world hated Jesus and they will hate His followers. 

Fault is found in Christians and other believers that have taken a beautiful concept, overly structured it, then damn others in Jesus' name.  Like they have any grasp on the extent of God's judgement.  Many simply wield the word of God as an extension of power over others.

There is some truth to that but that is a good reason for people to read and study the bible for themselves and know what the bible teaches and not rely solely on what a church or minister teaches. 

This is where the fault is found.

And that is easy pickings many times but my argument with atheists is to find fault with Jesus. But it is important to know Jesus, the real Jesus and not a Jesus you imagine Him to be. The only way to do that is to believe what the bible says because there is only one way to know Jesus and that is through the bible. It is the only way.  Anything else is just using your own imagination in imagining what Jesus is like.  

@oldbrownsfan said:

Are there some shysters today making money off the gospel. Sure. But if I focused on these cons I would become as cynical as you. There is nothing new under the sun, they had those types in the days of the Apostle Paul too. I follow the Jesus of the bible. If He were only  out to deceive and profit for what He did then He failed miserably. NO it was all for us and it was all a gift that costs us nothing but the rewards are eternal. Finding fault with Christians is too easy (and many times we Christians make it too easy because we don't measure up). The real challenge for you is to find fault with Jesus.

Most anybody won't find fault with a rock solid person whose highest commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself.

Fault is found in Christians and other believers that have taken a beautiful concept, overly structured it, then damn others in Jesus' name.  Like they have any grasp on the extent of God's judgement.  Many simply wield the word of God as an extension of power over others.

This is where the fault is found.

@logicisforsquares said:

That seems like a good fail safe for a scam. "If they don't buy into the scam, they are fools and not spiritual." *keeps collecting mountains of dough off of scared people*

Are there some shysters today making money off the gospel. Sure. But if I focused on these cons I would become as cynical as you. There is nothing new under the sun, they had those types in the days of the Apostle Paul too. I follow the Jesus of the bible. If He were only  out to deceive and profit for what He did then He failed miserably. NO it was all for us and it was all a gift that costs us nothing but the rewards are eternal. Finding fault with Christians is too easy (and many times we Christians make it too easy because we don't measure up). The real challenge for you is to find fault with Jesus.

@oldbrownsfan said:

1 Corinthians 2:14 King James Version (KJV)

¹⁴ But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

That seems like a good fail safe for a scam. "If they don't buy into the scam, they are fools and not spiritual." *keeps collecting mountains of dough off of scared people*

@oldbrownsfan said:

Yep. Saw that. Spot on, right on the money.

I challenge anyone here to refute any of the points discussed....actually would be a good thread topic.

@logicisforsquares said:

I prefer my religion to have zombies, impossibly large boats, guys living in sea mammals, and a man who can produce an endless buffet via magic. 

1 Corinthians 2:14 King James Version (KJV)

¹⁴ But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

@oldbrownsfan said:

I prefer my religion to have zombies, impossibly large boats, guys living in sea mammals, and a man who can produce an endless buffet via magic. 

@gorka said:

Let me count the ways democrats screw things up for everyone else.

@canton-dawg said:

Let me count the ways democrats screw things up for everyone else.

@mld-woody said:

not sure how i feel about something i hold in higher esteem than the 10 commsndments being sacrileged as a tool to bludgeon someone. 

@mld-woody said:

Wait... You think the first one was? 

So screaming "fake news" or " MSM" is just an excuse to believe whatever the hell you want, huh? It's your tool of choice when you want to ignore facts. Cool.

Call it fake news, biased news, corrupted news whatever you want but it is usually not the fully truthful news. Sometimes they outright lie but most of the time it is what they leave out...like the other side of the story that doesn't fit their narratives.

@mld-woody said:

Wait... You think the first one was? 

So screaming "fake news" or " MSM" is just an excuse to believe whatever the hell you want, huh? It's your tool of choice when you want to ignore facts. Cool.

@mld-woody said:

Wait... You think the first one was? 

So screaming "fake news" or " MSM" is just an excuse to believe whatever the hell you want, huh? It's your tool of choice when you want to ignore facts. Cool.

Woody.  Rewind and repeat...........

So screaming "fake news" or " MSM" is just an excuse to believe whatever the hell you want, huh? It's your tool of choice when you want to ignore facts. Cool.

@mld-woody said:

And just before whatever the pre modern version of the Democrat Party was started demanding Rock control

WSS