@tour2ma said:

Everyone knows that lawyers make the worst witnesses...

Possibly true....we are use to controlling the questioning.  But it is still a fact that that was a BS call.

As for the game and this thread...

• I'm shocked no one commented on Greedy's unwillingness to tackle. Marlon Mack came his way early on and Williams dove for his ankles... head down no less. Mack barely broke stride on his way to a nice gain, however, a worm suffered a season ending injury. Mitchell looks like the better CB opposite Ward to me. He's simply more complete. I'd use Greedy as the nickle although not necessarily as the slot cover.
• But on other plays he made so hard, tough nosed tackles...which we were all told he was unwilling to do.  So, with him it is perhaps a 50/50 deal on tackling
• Our OTs are not PassPro pros... but they are road-graders and that just may be enough combined with Bake's quick decisions to work. Comments were made about Hubbard (mental errors leading to penalties), but it was a Robinson brain-fart of epic proportions that almost got Gilbert killed. Greg had outside help in the form of a RB chip and yet allowed himself to be beaten cleanly inside by one of Indy's young DEs. That's Erving level stuff just can't happen.
• Our OL may be our weak link this year, yes.
• Higgins continues to impress me. Seems to "chemistry" with whomever is slingin' the rock.The kid has arrived. it would not shock me if he ended up leading our WR room in yardage in 2019.
• Loved seeing a real FB in a Browns uni blowing up LBs and DBs in the hole again. Kerridge may be a luxury we can't afford in the 53. Hopefully he adds enough value to STs to stick.
• Thanks for providing an opinion on him...where some refused to do so when requested.
• Still reserving opinion on the D. This week's 3rd Preseason game should yield much better data.

On Stanton... As I've posted before I believe Dorsey and company like him in the QB room with Baker... and Baker likes him there, too. That's enough to punch his ticket to the 53 even with Gilbert likely earning the #2 opening day. That doesn't mean that Stanton isn't the opening day backup, but... as I've also posted before... for a short-term stint as starter should Baker get nicked I can see Stanton. However, should Baker have to sit for any length on time I see Gilbert with his superior arm and legs getting the starts. If I am right then someone will dig up the old QB jersey....

Well...this brings up, again, the whole stupid "inactive status" issue.  That should be abolished.  NFL teams have a 53 man roster. ALL of them should be available to play...and particularly 3 QBs.

As for the game and this thread...

• I'm shocked no one commented on Greedy's unwillingness to tackle. Marlon Mack came his way early on and Williams dove for his ankles... head down no less. Mack barely broke stride on his way to a nice gain, however, a worm suffered a season ending injury. Mitchell looks like the better CB opposite Ward to me. He's simply more complete. I'd use Greedy as the nickle although not necessarily as the slot cover.
• Our OTs are not PassPro pros... but they are road-graders and that just may be enough combined with Bake's quick decisions to work. Comments were made about Hubbard (mental errors leading to penalties), but it was a Robinson brain-fart of epic proportions that almost got Gilbert killed. Greg had outside help in the form of a RB chip and yet allowed himself to be beaten cleanly inside by one of Indy's young DEs. That's Erving level stuff just can't happen.
• Higgins continues to impress me. Seems to "chemistry" with whomever is slingin' the rock.The kid has arrived. it would not shock me if he ended up leading our WR room in yardage in 2019.
• Loved seeing a real FB in a Browns uni blowing up LBs and DBs in the hole again. Kerridge may be a luxury we can't afford in the 53. Hopefully he adds enough value to STs to stick.
• Still reserving opinion on the D. This week's 3rd Preseason game should yield much better data.

On Stanton... As I've posted before I believe Dorsey and company like him in the QB room with Baker... and Baker likes him there, too. That's enough to punch his ticket to the 53 even with Gilbert likely earning the #2 opening day. That doesn't mean that Stanton isn't the opening day backup, but... as I've also posted before... for a short-term stint as starter should Baker get nicked I can see Stanton. However, should Baker have to sit for any length on time I see Gilbert with his superior arm and legs getting the starts. If I am right then someone will dig up the old QB jersey....

@texasag1969 said:

 "I love the level of commitment from the both of you."-Ibleedbrown

Except the ref standing right over it saw it my way. Gips "testimony" does not hold up in referee court.  LOLOLOL??

EDIT: BTW I've been living with a hard headed woman 50 years come this Valentine's Day. I can write a book on stubborn because a lot has rubbed off on me. Gip is my best competition on the football board. Cal holds the title on the polyboard. But I haven't raised a white flag yet,. Right cal?  LOLOLOL?️?

wait... I thought competition was supposed to bring out the BEST in people...eh.... LOL

Except the ref standing right over it saw it my way. Gips "testimony" does not hold up in referee court.  LOLOLOL??

EDIT: BTW I've been living with a hard headed woman 50 years come this Valentine's Day. I can write a book on stubborn because a lot has rubbed off on me. Gip is my best competition on the football board. Cal holds the title on the polyboard. But I haven't raised a white flag yet,. Right cal?  LOLOLOL?️?

@the-gipper said:

My cable company doesn’t carry the NFL network not sure why 

$$$ is why.  NFLN is probably asking too much to be carried by your cable company. I believe I may have mentioned elsewhere- around $8 bucks of my Directv bill is just for what the family of ESPN networks is able to extort out of them. It's the same reason Directv and Nexstar are having a war, D* thinks Nexstar is asking too much for broadcast rights, based on viewership. The NBC affiliate here in Dayton has been blacked out on satellite for over a month. Finally got so POed about it I pulled out the old rabbit ears (actually an amplified mini-dish) to get it OTA.

@the-gipper said:

Like I said, a tap and a graze. He tapped his head and he grazed his shoulder. Nothing egregious. Nothing that says "football".

Give it up already. Doesn't matter. Go wax nostalgic for 1960s officiating where a full weight from the top of the ropes WWF body slam wouldn't have been called. You can't so much as "tap" the QBs head anymore. The play was blown dead- they could have made it a late hit. 

@the-gipper said:

Like I said, a tap and a graze. He tapped his head and he grazed his shoulder. Nothing egregious. Nothing that says "football".

1. It's the only angle i can find for free..(it's not the right* angle to see back of head get hit though.from gamepass, straight behind Kelly it's easy to see more than a tap to head)..2.Kelly grabs the back of helmet at :21  seconds in this video, before grabbing face mask and at same time 2nd flag was launched. 3. How many times do we see a ref (save a QB) from contact not even being touched down? They blew the play dead as a runner down(no touch needed at that point and that's just rare)..4.Am not even sure? By the time Ray heard the 1st whistle his momentum could have stopped him? 5. Davis knew the rookie cost us 15 yards

@hoorta said:

I'll have to arbitrate this one, and at least on this Board, the Moderator's Decision is final....I pulled up that play and watched it in real time and slo-mo several times.  Sorry Gipper- Ag is right. It was more than "barely grazed him". I believe the rule is any contact with a QBs head even if incidental- is a penalty.  Would it have been hard for our guy to pull up? Probably. But as Ag said, he did roll over him with his chest even though it was hardly a 60s level body slam their QB would have gotten back then. But this is now, and they may as well treat QBs with Flag Football rules. You can't hit them high, or low anymore.  

Would that penalty have been called in a regular season game? Maybe, maybe not. You can bet the ranch if it was Tom Brady who had gotten rolled over, the flag would have been thrown. 

The penalty and rule sucks, but I don’t want anyone touching Bakers head or legs, so......

@gumby73 said:

let's end this.. 

      the play is at :17 seconds...the 1st words that came out of refs mouth on gamepass was " after the runner was blown as down"... personal foul..gamepass has play from behind QB..Wyatt Rays hands comes first, but the follow though brings the left chest pad to back of qb's head..  

Like I said, a tap and a graze. He tapped his head and he grazed his shoulder. Nothing egregious. Nothing that says "football".

      the play is at :17 seconds...the 1st words that came out of refs mouth on gamepass was " after the runner was blown as down"... personal foul..gamepass has play from behind QB..Wyatt Rays hands come first, but the follow through brings the left chest plate to back of qb's head..  

@hoorta said:

I already saw it about ten times, but go ahead, don't believe me....

Here's your chance Gipper Browns- Colts game replay 1PM Tuesday NFLN.  If you don't have it, that's your problem.    

My cable company doesn’t carry the NFL network not sure why 

@the-gipper said:

Need to see the video

I already saw it about ten times, but go ahead, don't believe me....

Here's your chance Gipper Browns- Colts game replay 1PM Tuesday NFLN.  If you don't have it, that's your problem.    

@hoorta said:

I'll have to arbitrate this one, and at least on this Board, the Moderator's Decision is final....I pulled up that play and watched it in real time and slo-mo several times.  Sorry Gipper- Ag is right. It was more than "barely grazed him". I believe the rule is any contact with a QBs head even if incidental- is a penalty.  Would it have been hard for our guy to pull up? Probably. But as Ag said, he did roll over him with his chest even though it was hardly a 60s level body slam their QB would have gotten back then. But this is now, and they may as well treat QBs with Flag Football rules. You can't hit them high, or low anymore.  

Would that penalty have been called in a regular season game? Maybe, maybe not. You can bet the ranch if it was Tom Brady who had gotten rolled over, the flag would have been thrown. 

Need to see the video

@the-gipper said:

He touched his head with his hand.  

I will go back to what a certain home boy from around here said about how QBs are being treated:   "Put  skirt on them, if you are going to calls plays like that a penalty."   (that was Jack Lambert...Mantua Crestwood/Kent State product)

@texasag1969 said:

I did not say he fell on him. I said his chest contacted the QB's helmet with his chest as he came over the top.

And you go find the video. You have been claiming it was not a foul, not me. That was your argument against my original post that it was a stupid thing to do, so find it and post it and then try to claim there was no contact chest to helmet as he comes over the top of the sitting QB. It's around the 14:00 min. time of the 4th. I no longer have it recorded.

@the-gipper said:

I saw it.  My testimony is all the proof required.   Whatever he touched him with...it was just that a touch that barely grazed him.  

I'll have to arbitrate this one, and at least on this Board, the Moderator's Decision is final....I pulled up that play and watched it in real time and slo-mo several times.  Sorry Gipper- Ag is right. It was more than "barely grazed him". I believe the rule is any contact with a QBs head even if incidental- is a penalty.  Would it have been hard for our guy to pull up? Probably. But as Ag said, he did roll over him with his chest even though it was hardly a 60s level body slam their QB would have gotten back then. But this is now, and they may as well treat QBs with Flag Football rules. You can't hit them high, or low anymore.  

Would that penalty have been called in a regular season game? Maybe, maybe not. You can bet the ranch if it was Tom Brady who had gotten rolled over, the flag would have been thrown. 

@texasag1969 said:

I did not say he fell on him. I said his chest contacted the QB's helmet with his chest as he came over the top.

And you go find the video. You have been claiming it was not a foul, not me. That was your argument against my original post that it was a stupid thing to do, so find it and post it and then try to claim there was no contact chest to helmet as he comes over the top of the sitting QB. It's around the 14:00 min. time of the 4th. I no longer have it recorded.

I saw it.  My testimony is all the proof required.   Whatever he touched him with...it was just that a touch that barely grazed him.  

@the-gipper said:

Prove it....show the video.  I must have missed something if you say the defender fell on him with his chest.

I did not say he fell on him. I said his chest contacted the QB's helmet with his chest as he came over the top.

And you go find the video. You have been claiming it was not a foul, not me. That was your argument against my original post that it was a stupid thing to do, so find it and post it and then try to claim there was no contact chest to helmet as he comes over the top of the sitting QB. It's around the 14:00 min. time of the 4th. I no longer have it recorded.

@texasag1969 said:

You are wrong. It started with the hand but as he came over the top he hits him with his chest as well. But no fear. As the QB got up he exclaimed..........................

Prove it....show the video.  I must have missed something if you say the defender fell on him with his chest.

@the-gipper said:

He touched his head with his hand.  

I will go back to what a certain home boy from around here said about how QBs are being treated:   "Put  skirt on them, if you are going to calls plays like that a penalty."   (that was Jack Lambert...Mantua Crestwood/Kent State product)

You are wrong. It started with the hand but as he came over the top he hits him with his chest as well. But no fear. As the QB got up he exclaimed..........................

@choco said:

I'll be waiting with baited breath when you start a thread complaining about baker getting hit. 

It is spelled "bated breath"....unless you are fishing for air.     And the key word in your sentence is "hit".   not touched, not tapped,  hit.

@texasag1969 said:

A tap with his chest. Yeah, that sounds about right.

He touched his head with his hand.  

I will go back to what a certain home boy from around here said about how QBs are being treated:   "Put  skirt on them, if you are going to calls plays like that a penalty."   (that was Jack Lambert...Mantua Crestwood/Kent State product)

@the-gipper said:

I Slo-moed it. you don’t have to interpret it for me. it was a tap 

A tap with his chest. Yeah, that sounds about right.