@calfoxwc said:

speaking referee calls..;.

what in the hell was that quick whistle on Baker being grabbed by the shoulder?

what...in...the...hell.....was.....THAT ?>???

Baker pulled away just fine.

But when Baker got driven into the turf, banging his head on the turf...no call?

and another tackle...Baker was on the ground and another player hit him?

THEN you hear the whistle?

Something is wrong with the NFL referees. Some teams get screwed with questionable calls, and other....favorite teams laugh when their falgrant fouls are not called. It isn't just the Browns.

Its called 'in the grasp' another save the quarterback pussy rule.

@furious-styles said:

There was some chaos and disarray on the sidelines at times that may have carried over to the field. Staff needs to get that in order

Is Freddie over his head?

@tour2ma said:

True, but "in the grasp" is so seldom called these days what with all the other protections built into the rules.

It's called less, you are right. But it's still in the book. As long as it is, there will be some plays where the whistle is blown early, it will happen. The QB looks like he can't get away, but then does. 

@blitzz2 said:

Someone needs to install some discipline here, and it all starts with Kitchens. Can't be a players coach in this league. Maybe he needs to make an example of someone? Give the team a wake up call. Do it now, you set the example, do it later, your'e just reacting. Better to be proactive now, then reactive later. Should of ran the ball a whole lot more and early. Have a feeling we will probably be looking at the WW to see who is out there, or contacting other teams about some LT that is available. 

This. It's been my concern all along. I know Freddie is likeable, and is the basic opposite of jerk coaches, like Haley.  So, everyone is comfortable with Freddie around. But sometimes being "comfortable" isn't what is needed in the NFL. Do you remember Parcells' 1st year as the Giants' head coach? (I don't "remember" it, other than from the Documentaries, etc., that's been done on him). After he realized he was probably coaching his last season if he didn't win more, he told his assistant coaches, "the players aren't going to like me, but I have to coach my way moving forward and that's just the way it has to be." He went on to win 2 rings with that team, but was not fun for the players to be around, but most of them love him now, knowing he had to crack the whip to get the results he needed. Jimmy Johnson was the same way, players say they were terrified to be around him. Hoodie, the same. 

Phil Simms always says, in order to prepare for football, you have to be pushed to do things you wouldn't do on your own (with some rare exceptions). Does FK do that enough? Is there a reason he was never considered for any head coaching jobs prior to this, on any level? A buddy of mine went to camp this year and told me FK was running tougher camps than any prior coach he had seen. I don't know. All I know is the product they put on the field yesterday screams of a lack of discipline. 18 penalties, sloppiness. That falls on the head coach, does it not?

@icecube said:

I've seen that same call dozens of times, even almost 20 years ago (when I believe the first started trying to protect the QB with the "in the grasp" calls).

It was an early whistle, but once it is blown, you can't "re-start" the play.  You can't blow the whistle and then say, "No, wait, I shouldn't have blown it, keep playing."

True, but "in the grasp" is so seldom called these days what with all the other protections built into the rules.

@calfoxwc said:

speaking referee calls..;.

what in the hell was that quick whistle on Baker being grabbed by the shoulder?

what...in...the...hell.....was.....THAT ?>???

Baker pulled away just fine.

But when Baker got driven into the turf, banging his head on the turf...no call?

and another tackle...Baker was on the ground and another player hit him?

THEN you hear the whistle?

Something is wrong with the NFL referees. Some teams get screwed with questionable calls, and other....favorite teams laugh when their falgrant fouls are not called. It isn't just the Browns.

I've seen that same call dozens of times, even almost 20 years ago (when I believe the first started trying to protect the QB with the "in the grasp" calls).

It was an early whistle, but once it is blown, you can't "re-start" the play.  You can't blow the whistle and then say, "No, wait, I shouldn't have blown it, keep playing."

@jiggins7919 said:

Bwahaha. 

Honestly, the offense looked pretty decent for a while if the penalties weren't so prevalent. WTF was that illegal blind side block crap they called on Robinson? I mean, Jesus. We also had two drops BY Njoku, and both hurt. Drive killers. 

What a mess. 

No team is going to win a game committing 180+ yards of penalties.  Take  those out and the  stats were pretty even.  We were constantly  in first or second and a mile,  tough to  convert those. I'll  have a chance to  look at the game  replay today, but I'll say at the  game, the fans were about  ready to start throwing  bottles at the refs.

what in the hell was that quick whistle on Baker being grabbed by the shoulder?

what...in...the...hell.....was.....THAT ?>???

Baker pulled away just fine.

But when Baker got driven into the turf, banging his head on the turf...no call?

and another tackle...Baker was on the ground and another player hit him?

THEN you hear the whistle?

Something is wrong with the NFL referees. Some teams get screwed with questionable calls, and other....favorite teams laugh when their falgrant fouls are not called. It isn't just the Browns.

@jiggins7919 said:

That's an interesting point and not something I thought about.  I do know that many weren't exactly happy with our defense, specifically our tackling and problems against the run, and those issues as much as anything doomed Gregg IMO.  All I know is I feel physically SICK this morning.  Yes, I know it's a game and all that, but I was really excited for this game, and win or lose I would've been ok, but not like this.  

The real killer was the OL, and much of that can be traced back to Greg Robinson and Hubbard.  We had several plays with receivers running free deep, including one where OBJ was WIDE OPEN, but Baker couldn't step up and throw it.  Those are killers in the NFL because you just don't get those opportunities often, and you HAVE to take advantage of them.  

My own.simple term and it agrees with what you’re saying. We just keep shooting ourselves in the foot. I keep saying it’ll get better. But will it? Geeeze, does God really hate the Browns?

@hoorta said:

How about OBJ getting called for offensive PI ? Fans in the stands thought it was bogus. Ditto Baker down.

I thought it looked like OPI at full speed, but as the replay count rose not so much. Yes, OBJ extended his arms and that's what Officials look for, but the DB also stumbled prior to the arm extension. What I could not tell was whether OBJ pulled the DB to set him off balance.

@baconhound said:

The final concern is Kitchens.

My specific concern is that Kitch made a point of emphasizing penalties, and especially not fighting, the 2nd half of camp... and it obviously had no impact.

@flyingfooldoug said:

Can’t help but think what if we stuck with GW?  They looked pretty well coached and disciplined the second half last year. Especially for a interim FO. People worried too much about the HC misspeaking about jobs and forgot to look at his actions for the team.

Somebody said discipline and humility can’t be taught. Bullshit!!!! Ask any marine about learning discipline. Go hang out in a children’s hospital with terminally ill kids for a week. You’ll learn humility too.  So now the southern accent rules. I really hope Freddy catches on.  But so typical. Shitcan the proven winner and go with the unknown  

That's an interesting point and not something I thought about.  I do know that many weren't exactly happy with our defense, specifically our tackling and problems against the run, and those issues as much as anything doomed Gregg IMO.  All I know is I feel physically SICK this morning.  Yes, I know it's a game and all that, but I was really excited for this game, and win or lose I would've been ok, but not like this.  

The real killer was the OL, and much of that can be traced back to Greg Robinson and Hubbard.  We had several plays with receivers running free deep, including one where OBJ was WIDE OPEN, but Baker couldn't step up and throw it.  Those are killers in the NFL because you just don't get those opportunities often, and you HAVE to take advantage of them.  

@texasag1969 said:

We're gonna need that extra day to fix what's broken and learn how to play through some of the worst adversity this team will ever face. Win Monday and we can look yesterday in the rear view mirror. It CAN be done.

It needs to be done. 

Damn what a huge disappointment. Probably the most deflating opener I can remember since the Chargers killed us on a Monday night in 1981.

@jiggins7919 said:

It's one game, but in my wildest dreams I couldn't think of a worse start. Those players ought to be ashamed of the way they acted, played, and represented our franchise. Gonna be a LONG week, as we unfortunately play on Monday night. 

We're gonna need that extra day to fix what's broken and learn how to play through some of the worst adversity this team will ever face. Win Monday and we can look yesterday in the rear view mirror. It CAN be done.

@jiggins7919 said:

Bwahaha. 

Honestly, the offense looked pretty decent for a while if the penalties weren't so prevalent. WTF was that illegal blind side block crap they called on Robinson? I mean, Jesus. We also had two drops BY Njoku, and both hurt. Drive killers. 

What a mess. 

Can’t help but think what if we stuck with GW?  They looked pretty well coached and disciplined the second half last year. Especially for a interim FO. People worried too much about the HC misspeaking about jobs and forgot to look at his actions for the team.

Somebody said discipline and humility can’t be taught. Bullshit!!!! Ask any marine about learning discipline. Go hang out in a children’s hospital with terminally ill kids for a week. You’ll learn humility too.  So now the southern accent rules. I really hope Freddy catches on.  But so typical. Shitcan the proven winner and go with the unknown  

@flugel said:

The offense looked like a lost episode of HeeHaw while the defense was a huge disappointment.

Bwahaha. 

Honestly, the offense looked pretty decent for a while if the penalties weren't so prevalent. WTF was that illegal blind side block crap they called on Robinson? I mean, Jesus. We also had two drops BY Njoku, and both hurt. Drive killers. 

What a mess. 

@nero said:

The Browns suck, and they shouldn't be considered for the Playoffs. They're a joke, Baker sucks, Freddie sucks, the coaches suck and the kicker and secondary suck.

OK, now that we got all of that aside for all the downers, some points to be positive about. 

First, September has become preseason for many teams and bring many surprises. So a stinker sucks, but it's not definitive. We can turn this around.

Second, main problem today for me was the penalties on D. They had a TD drive on first half only thank to it. Fortunately, that can be solved. Mostly the STUPID roughing the passer penalties and punches/kicks. 

Third, in sports, there are some key moments in the game that one team gets momentum and the other one loses it all. 43-13 is a big upset, but we only needed a one catch 75 yard TD by Henry and an INT by Baker for collapsing. It's not ideal, but with all the penalties against and Baker going gunslinger it's no wonder we ended up losing. 

I think the defense did a nice job and still is one of our strengths. Tennessee has very big receivers and we missed some size in the secondary in my opinion. 

Chubb played really well despite having a suspectful Oline, and OBJ played well too. 

Seibert missed an extra point but I don't think we should execute him for that. I'm only wondering if not forcing touchbacks on kickoffs (maybe he did once) was intentional or not. 

Let's take this as a wake up call and on to the Jets next week. 

On kickoffs, more and more teams are putting air under the football and kicking it shy of the goal line so the opponent doesn't start at the 25.  When we did this, we stopped TN inside their 20 and TN even had some penalties in their return game which further played in our favor.

Also, the Scottish Hammer did a job of flipping field position and causing them to start inside their 20 a few times (once at their own 6 yard line).

All that said, losing 43-13 at home deserves some reaction and concern IMO.  When adversity appeared our team disappeared.  In this sport, teams are defined by what they do when adversity strikes.  As a fan, I've always wanted our problems to be just 1 guy because you can correct that. This team was SOFT yesterday.  They were NOT prepared at all despite hearing they had been preparing for TN the last few weeks.  Really?  They didn't play the Volunteers.  They played the Titans for at least a few minutes...

The offense looked like a lost episode of HeeHaw while the defense was a huge disappointment.  18 penalties isn't going to beat anybody but us. I'd be concerned if they didn't react.

There's a lot to clean up - but there is enough talent here to make it possible.  We'll see how they respond. 

@hoorta said:

How about OBJ getting called for offensive PI ? Fans in the stands thought it was bogus. Ditto Baker down.

That was the soul crusher, it really was. We're getting some rhythm, moving the ball through the air, and we're about to get a shot or two at the end zone...and boom. It was completely deflating and a microcosm of the entire game. The guy was holding OBJ the entire time down the field, but no call there. It's maddening for the players and the fans. Don't get me wrong, we screwed ourselves so many times. The late hits on Mariota were all valid. The penalty on Garrett? Robinson's ejection? Valid. I'm telling you, Robinson is in DEEP SHIT. You're the starting LT and you pull THAT crap? No way. Baker Mayfield really likes Greg, and he let his team down. Trent Williams might be getting traded because this was garbage today. 

It's one game, but in my wildest dreams I couldn't think of a worse start. Those players ought to be ashamed of the way they acted, played, and represented our franchise. Gonna be a LONG week, as we unfortunately play on Monday night. 

@flyingfooldoug said:

Coaches had too much Ice Mocha..... like ice mocha too much weed today. 

Did you sniff glue before writing this?

"Like ice mocha too much weed today"? ? 

Didnthe titans play better in the 2nd half? Yes. The browns still got owned by the refs today