@jiggins7919 said:

same formation AND the exact same play?

It was not the same play.  The first one (successful but whistle blew it dead) didn't have a pulling guard.  The 2nd one did.  Yes it was to the same side and maybe even same hole but it was not the same play because the blocking schemes were completely different. Not all tosses/sweeps are the same play just because they go to the same hole. The first one was an iso second one was a trap. 

@dutch-oven said:

The guy who calls a draw play on 4th and 9?

LOL. I walked into that one. 

Btw, I'm watching Chiefs game, and do they have three former Browns on the OL? Reiter, Erving, and Schwartz? 

@jiggins7919 said:

Who willingly gives the ball back to the hall of fame QB when you just played the best half of ball all year and you have the great chance at ending a half with no less than a 23-12 lead?

The guy who calls a draw play on 4th and 9?

@hoorta said:

The problem I have in the Seahawks game was Freddie doubling down and saying the ill advised pass to Landry that got picked off was absolutely the right call.... I won't belabor what everyone else pointed out, in that situation even if you do score, you don't want to give Wilson the ball again with plenty of time left in the half...  That's clock management 101 for most coaches. 

Well he did say the play call may have been wrong and the decision baker made on playcall may have been wrong but the time management was not wrong ??????

@hoorta said:

The problem I have in the Seahawks game was Freddie doubling down and saying the ill advised pass to Landry that got picked off was absolutely the right call.... I won't belabor what everyone else pointed out, in that situation even if you do score, you don't want to give Wilson the ball again with plenty of time left in the half...  That's clock management 101 for most coaches. 

The reason I got so angry after this game (well, ONE of the reasons) was just what you mentioned. Freddie, you arrogant, smug, no-clue having ass clown. He sounded EXACTLY like Hue Jackson. I immediately got PTSD and I almost couldn't believe what he said. And that's kind of my point in all my bemoaning...if WE know this, how does he not? And I get there's a head coaching learning curve, but I already know this, and I've never been a coach. At any level! How the heck does he not understand? I was waiting for him to say something like, "It would've been good if it had worked." 

Who willingly gives the ball back to the hall of fame QB when you just played the best half of ball all year and you have the great chance at ending a half with no less than a 23-12 lead? And applause at the half! Remember "applause"?! 

@jiggins7919 said:

Honestly, I HOPE to God you're right!  The last thing I want to even THINK about is a coaching change, ya know?  But I don't understand some of the mistakes he's made.  The draw on 4th and 9?  Not running it ONCE against the Rams when we needed to score and had plenty of time?  Running it twice in a row against the Seahawks with the same formation AND the exact same play?  Trying to leave time on the clock so the hall of fame QB goes 3 and out and you get the ball BACK before half?

My problem is that being a first year coach doesn't excuse any of that.  I've never been a coach of football at any level and I totally know that you don't do any of that.  I'd venture to say that all of our fans know this information as well.  So if we're not paid millions of dollars, and we know what to do, how in the world does a coach not know?  There isn't an excuse in the world that will make sense, and being a "first year coach" doesn't cut the mustard.  

A 4th and 9 draw play....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

The problem I have in the Seahawks game was Freddie doubling down and saying the ill advised pass to Landry that got picked off was absolutely the right call.... I won't belabor what everyone else pointed out, in that situation even if you do score, you don't want to give Wilson the ball again with plenty of time left in the half...  That's clock management 101 for most coaches. 

@calfoxwc said:

did the squealers/germans fire Chuck Noll his first year? his second or third year?

HELL NO !

Let me make my stance perfectly clear, not that it matters in the grand scheme of things, LOL.  I do NOT want a new coach, not right now.  I simply do not understand how someone could be so dense in very easy situations.  My point was that if Kitchens continues to make idiotic mistakes that a JV coach in Arkansas wouldn't make, he will be gone.  

@hoorta said:

You can rant all you want, but Freddie  will be  allowed to  play  out the  year, regardless.

Honestly, I HOPE to God you're right!  The last thing I want to even THINK about is a coaching change, ya know?  But I don't understand some of the mistakes he's made.  The draw on 4th and 9?  Not running it ONCE against the Rams when we needed to score and had plenty of time?  Running it twice in a row against the Seahawks with the same formation AND the exact same play?  Trying to leave time on the clock so the hall of fame QB goes 3 and out and you get the ball BACK before half?

My problem is that being a first year coach doesn't excuse any of that.  I've never been a coach of football at any level and I totally know that you don't do any of that.  I'd venture to say that all of our fans know this information as well.  So if we're not paid millions of dollars, and we know what to do, how in the world does a coach not know?  There isn't an excuse in the world that will make sense, and being a "first year coach" doesn't cut the mustard.  

A 4th and 9 draw play....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

HELL NO !

@jiggins7919 said:

This is what I keep saying, and it's terrifying because the LAST thing I wanna do is get another coach mid season, but if our coach doesn't understand simple game dynamics, what's going to happen when things AREN'T simple? I'm not talking about some upper level, graduate course knowledge here...I'm talking about maximizing points, reducing risk, and limiting oppositional opportunities. HOW THE EFF DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?! You fat, mayonnaise sandwich-eating, backwoods, squirrel hunting, dipshit of a coach!! 

Whew. I'm better now. 

You can rant all you want, but Freddie  will be  allowed to  play  out the  year, regardless.

@jiggins7919 said:

HOW THE EFF DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?! You fat, mayonnaise sandwich-eating, backwoods, squirrel hunting, dipshit of a coach!! 

squirrel hunting? mayonnaise? woods? that's just going too far.......!

@jiggins7919 said:

squirrel hunting

Whew. I'm better now. 

OK cal and I are in our usual rare agreement here. You've gone way too far over the top!??

@dutch-oven said:

But you are saying that you would have preferred to score either with, say 1:50 left on the clock and give the ball to the hottest QB in the NFL and take your chances of forcing a 3 and out, using all your timeouts, and trying to score with less than a minute than to just use as much time as possible, giving the Seahawks little to no chance to scoring, and going to the half up 23-12 or 27-12?

This is what I keep saying, and it's terrifying because the LAST thing I wanna do is get another coach mid season, but if our coach doesn't understand simple game dynamics, what's going to happen when things AREN'T simple? I'm not talking about some upper level, graduate course knowledge here...I'm talking about maximizing points, reducing risk, and limiting oppositional opportunities. HOW THE EFF DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?! You fat, mayonnaise sandwich-eating, backwoods, squirrel hunting, dipshit of a coach!! 

Whew. I'm better now. 

@dutch-oven said:

Absolutely. 

Freddie is doubling-down on his stupid decisions. 

I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that Gregg Williams had way more to do with the Browns success post-Hue than most of us gave him credit for. The Browns under him last season were disciplined. 

It's water under the bridge now but imo Greg Williams earned the right to be HC this year with what he accomplished last year. I saw it as a slap in the face when they bypassed him. I'm not giving up on Kitchens though and I cut him some slack as a new HC. He has the team playing at a high enough level to be competitive with some of the NFL's best but he has to get a few things cleaned up such as better clock management, play calling, mistakes etc...I think he will get it done, time will tell.

@hoorta said:

Well, it's the bye week and everything will get evaluated. Including the coaches and play calling. As they opined on Red Zone yesterday, I wouldn't be too surprized if Dorsey had a chat with Kitchens and ask him "what the hell were you thinking there"?  

Being aggressive I get- being over aggressive will lose you games.    

It almost seems like Freddie isn't being aggressive, more like he's being desperate. 

@dutch-oven said:

Absolutely. 

Freddie is doubling-down on his stupid decisions. 

I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that Gregg Williams had way more to do with the Browns success post-Hue than most of us gave him credit for. The Browns under him last season were disciplined. 

Well, it's the bye week and everything will get evaluated. Including the coaches and play calling. As they opined on Red Zone yesterday, I wouldn't be too surprized if Dorsey had a chat with Kitchens and ask him "what the hell were you thinking there"?  

Being aggressive I get- being over aggressive will lose you games.    

@jiggins7919 said:

Yeah, we'll beat the best team in the league at their house. Right after we learn to actually catch the ball, not turn it over in the red zone, not fumble, and learn how to tackle. These teams like Seattle and New England are GOOD teams. They've been good for a long time, and they expect to be great. They don't beat themselves and they don't complain about the refs after the game. 

Can we win? Yeah, we COULD, but you'd be a fool to expect it. We're 2-4 for Christ's sake. Our QB leads the free world in interceptions. We're playing the best defense in the league. Draw your own conclusions. 

WE WIN

Coaching and managing to win? ?‍️

If the Browns minimize their penalties...

If the Browns were better in the red zone...

If the Browns were not picked off 11 times...

If the Browns receivers didn't drop so many passes...

If the Browns defense could figure out offenses... 

If the Browns had an effective defensive backfield...

Two weeks of rest will not remedy these problems.  And look who the Browns will face after their "rest", Patriots.  That's an awesome team to welcome you back. I'm an incurable pessimist because I'm a Browns fan so I predict two more wins this season and talk like I've talked for season after season...wait till next year.   

@calfoxwc said:

The Chargers were worse than that bad. They played terrible. Their offensive line isn't rated THAT low, but it should be after that debacle.

Without their key OL playcaller Pouncy, they were shit until the 4th Q.

@lodilobo said:

Speaking of- has Pittsburgh got their mojo back or are the Chargers that bad? Man, they sucked the big one on Sunday night. 

The Chargers were worse than that bad. They played terrible. Their offensive line isn't rated THAT low, but it should be after that debacle.

@hoorta said:

It's trolls like this who give Ravens fans a bad name. I'm sure there's a few decent Baltimore fans out there, but I can honestly say I haven't seen one here on the Board yet. What should you expect though out of a fanbase that reveres #52- who saw a couple guys get killed, and can't remember exactly what happened? He's not here to talk football, just rag when the Browns lose. FWIW, that alone is reason enough to kick him off, but I'll wait until after the Seahawks game to send him into Internet oblivion. As to always being "great" I counted 11 seasons when the Ravens were .500 or lower. As recently as a few years ago when they were 5-11, then 8-8 a real powerhouse of a team, um not exactly. The Steelers fans should be laughing at them.

Speaking of- has Pittsburgh got their mojo back or are the Chargers that bad? Man, they sucked the big one on Sunday night.   

You're right about some decent Ravens fans. This guy is just an idiot no matter who he roots for. No reason to ban him. He obviously isn't intelligent enough to make any good points on any subject. He's kind of a distraction over here. He's harmless...way too stupid to have a conversation with.

And you have to take shots in dire situations. This team can't handle big score differences, so if you have to take 3 points take them. Mostly if it's in fourth and long. 

@dutch-oven said:

If the Browns kicked a field goal at that point, the score would have been 23-12 Browns. A touchdown there would have made it 27-12. 

But you are saying that you would have preferred to score either with, say 1:50 left on the clock and give the ball to the hottest QB in the NFL and take your chances of forcing a 3 and out, using all your timeouts, and trying to score with less than a minute than to just use as much time as possible, giving the Seahawks little to no chance to scoring, and going to the half up 23-12 or 27-12?

Really? 

In hindsight it wasn't a good plan because it didn't work.

But really, in the moment, they had them on the ropes... they went for the knockout punch and got caught. 

Keep swinging. They remember the homeruns, not the strikeouts. We're about to find out what this team is made of.

- and I checked the penalties, I see what you were saying. The Seahawks had more penalties than we did, which I didn't realize... I think it's the context of the penalties and not the amount that mattered however. Like the horsecollar on Garrett- automatic 1st down. Phantom crackback block by Landry- negates a good gain and puts us in a massive hole... those types of penalties are drive killers and game changers, not the ticky-tack 5 yard penalties to make it look even on the stat line.