@sekrah said:

The front office isn't there to teach details, that's on the head of the coaching staff. There is plenty of talent on this team, plenty.

If you want to blame the front office for rolling the dice on a complete bozo, you can do that.  But the HC is the reason we look like dogshit. 

Could well be it happens more often than you think when a person who may be good at one level gets promoted to a job he or she just can't handle.

If that's the case do they (not we, we don't own or run the team). basically chuck the season now appoint a temporary coach and start the beauty contest for the next BROWNS head coach?  Would waiting for the end of the season be a better option or not before this move.  Again we don't decide that....but we can voice our opinions.

@mjp28 said:

Or is the old "catch all" in many team sports  it's easier to fire one coach or manager than get rid of the team or front office........or ownership?

Yeah ready, aim, fire away!     

The front office isn't there to teach details, that's on the head of the coaching staff. There is plenty of talent on this team, plenty.

If you want to blame the front office for rolling the dice on a complete bozo, you can do that.  But the HC is the reason we look like dogshit. 

@sekrah said:

Changing QB coaches is not the cause of undiscipline and lack of details across the board.  Let's stop finding excuses for Freddie. It falls on him.

Or is the old "catch all" in many team sports  it's easier to fire one coach or manager than get rid of the team or front office........or ownership?

Yeah ready, aim, fire away!     

@dawg2fan said:

The other thing I noticed is that Ken Zampeze was our QB coach last season.  Now it's Ryan Lindsey.  Perhaps that's what's missing, maybe Ryan just can't get it going.  I'll reserve judgement until after the Patriots game.  If we get blown out, everyone will be pointing fingers.  Also, lets see what Steve Wilkes will do now that we have our secondary back.  If we still stink, then we're going nowhere.... fast.

yeah, when you change coaches, there is always concern....thats a good point you bring up.....it can't be good to keep changing coaches yr after yr the way this team does. and that is obvious by the lack of success throughout the yrs.....however some of the coaches we hired is like yikes, someone forgot to do their homework before hiring this guy....happens too often with this team...

@browns52 said:

there is alot of things that should have been ironed out in training camp....my biggest issue is the discipline....all the foolish penalties...have there been some bad calls...certainly....i don't know what is going on with the refs, however the browns are not the only team that have bad calls against them either...it's all over the league...but the discipline part, that is on the hc.....right now, i don't think he is the man to take the browns anywhere....maybe it changes, who knows...all i know is i am totally friggin frustrated the way things are going, especially the way we ended last season....i thought we'd build on that but obviously we are not...

The other thing I noticed is that Ken Zampeze was our QB coach last season.  Now it's Ryan Lindsey.  Perhaps that's what's missing, maybe Ryan just can't get it going.  I'll reserve judgement until after the Patriots game.  If we get blown out, everyone will be pointing fingers.  Also, lets see what Steve Wilkes will do now that we have our secondary back.  If we still stink, then we're going nowhere.... fast.

@the-gipper said:

Well....I saw a stat where the Browns are next to last in the league in rushing yards per game allowed......31st.....the Bengals being 42d. 

So...with the talent on this defense....that bullshit has to fucking change. 

hopefully we will see some takitaki on the field sunday afternoon

@atom said:

we have been in the 4 2 5 the majority of the time 

Well....I saw a stat where the Browns are next to last in the league in rushing yards per game allowed......31st.....the Bengals being 42d. 

So...with the talent on this defense....that bullshit has to fucking change. 

@jiggins7919 said:

I didn't see that last holding call on Greg against the Seahawks that crushed us after a Chubb 7 yard run. That one call could have cost us the game because Baker threw that stupid pick afterwards off of Hilliard's hands who didn't catch the bad ball. Did Greg really hold? I heard it was iffy. 

hard to say....the way things are now, you can call holding on just about every play....after this season, i hope they ease up on what constitues holding both on the ol and the db's.......way too many flags....

@dawg2fan said:

The other thing is this should have been caught in training camp.  Kitchens is to blame for this, no doubt.  Baker's never had problems with throwing to anyone before.  My biggest concern is we might have picked the wrong coach.  Like I said before, I hope i'm wrong.  

The Tampa game was startling to me.   Baker was way off, He should have played more the next game.  Bad calls are part of the game, the more complaining the more you will see. 

@browns52 said:

have there been some bad calls...certainly....i don't know what is going on with the refs, however the browns are not the only team that have bad calls against them either

I didn't see that last holding call on Greg against the Seahawks that crushed us after a Chubb 7 yard run. That one call could have cost us the game because Baker threw that stupid pick afterwards off of Hilliard's hands who didn't catch the bad ball. Did Greg really hold? I heard it was iffy. 

@the-gipper said:

I thought the 4-3 was supposed to be the base defense of the Browns, with Garret, Vernon, Richardson an Ogunjobi holding the fort in that defense?

we have been in the 4 2 5 the majority of the time 

@dawg2fan said:

The other thing is this should have been caught in training camp.  Kitchens is to blame for this, no doubt.  Baker's never had problems with throwing to anyone before.  My biggest concern is we might have picked the wrong coach.  Like I said before, I hope i'm wrong.  

there is alot of things that should have been ironed out in training camp....my biggest issue is the discipline....all the foolish penalties...have there been some bad calls...certainly....i don't know what is going on with the refs, however the browns are not the only team that have bad calls against them either...it's all over the league...but the discipline part, that is on the hc.....right now, i don't think he is the man to take the browns anywhere....maybe it changes, who knows...all i know is i am totally friggin frustrated the way things are going, especially the way we ended last season....i thought we'd build on that but obviously we are not...

@browns52 said:

he's made some bad throws no doubt....but as you say, receivers have something to do with it also and probably the oc....ol line blocking issue is definetly another issue....it all adds up....i don't know if we can correct all of the issues at once...we'll see...it's do or die time....

The other thing is this should have been caught in training camp.  Kitchens is to blame for this, no doubt.  Baker's never had problems with throwing to anyone before.  My biggest concern is we might have picked the wrong coach.  Like I said before, I hope i'm wrong.  

@the-gipper said:

I thought the 4-3 was supposed to be the base defense of the Browns, with Garret, Vernon, Richardson an Ogunjobi holding the fort in that defense?

We don't run with 3 linebackers most of the time, as I believe we prefer to use the "heavy nickel" which incorporates 3 safeties. Fair warning, I could be talking out my ass, but I THINK I'm somewhat correct. I mean, think about it...who is our 3rd linebacker out there? I only ever see Wilson and Schobert. 

@browns52 said:

yeah, something is going on...we should not look as  bad as we do....your point on running a 4/3 every now and then is a good idea in my opinion...why not, nothing else is working...

I thought the 4-3 was supposed to be the base defense of the Browns, with Garret, Vernon, Richardson an Ogunjobi holding the fort in that defense?

@orion said:

....man, I wish I had a good argument against any of that.  Except to say that the QB is a 2nd year player and the HC is a rookie HC.  

good point....only problem with that is we have players that are not going to put up with it very long....if that starts to go out of control....look out below....

@dawg2fan said:

Baker's throwing is clearly off.  We can see it in many games.  Not sure if it's him or the receivers or both.  It concerns me with all this talent, but our record is 2-4 right now.  Any quality coach would find ways to work around a ineffective oline.  He's being used by smarter coaches and unless i'm wrong, we'll continue to see it.  And I hope i am

he's made some bad throws no doubt....but as you say, receivers have something to do with it also and probably the oc....ol line blocking issue is definetly another issue....it all adds up....i don't know if we can correct all of the issues at once...we'll see...it's do or die time....

@atom said:

maybe wilks will get a clue and play in a 4-3 every now and then 

wasnt takitaki supposed to be good against the run ? cause i believe thats where we seem to be getting killed at

yeah, something is going on...we should not look as  bad as we do....your point on running a 4/3 every now and then is a good idea in my opinion...why not, nothing else is working...

@dawg2fan said:

Baker's throwing is clearly off.  We can see it in many games.  Not sure if it's him or the receivers or both.  It concerns me with all this talent, but our record is 2-4 right now.  Any quality coach would find ways to work around a ineffective oline.  He's being used by smarter coaches and unless i'm wrong, we'll continue to see it.  And I hope i am

....man, I wish I had a good argument against any of that.  Except to say that the QB is a 2nd year player and the HC is a rookie HC.  

@orion said:

We fired 2 head coaches in 1 year.

After that perspective HC's ran for the woods when they heard Haslam wanted to talk to them.

Bruce Arians was available and was interested. He has lots of talent.

We were just starting to climb out from under that stigma......and now some of us want to fire a new HC after 6 games?!?

It's Freddy's fault that Callaway turns a TD reception standing at the goal line into an int out to the 50?

Agreed on that. 

It's Freddy's fault that Hilliard lets a ball go through his hands and into the hands of a defender to end the game?  Of course, people blame him for throwing it to Hilliard at all.  And that it should ALWAYS be thrown to OBJ or Landry....or else run Chubb.

- Here's what I haven't at all liked from Freddie:  The draw play on 4th & 9.  Of course, if it would've gotten 10 yards he'd have been hailed as a genius.  I didn't like it.

- Most didn't like his plan to score a TD, use his TO's to force Seattle to punt, and then come down and score again, all within 1:45 of the half.  Me, I only felt that it was a different way of thinking.  It was a plan.  I probably would've gone the old fashioned way and played 'not to lose'.....but for me, it's hard to criticize a guy who Plays To Win The Game.....so it didn't bother me much.  (you can't play the game being afraid that your QB is gonna throw an INT, or that your RB is gonna fumble)

Don't fire Freddie!    Don't trade a #1 pick for a 31 yr old LT who's been injured frequently.   Draft one.

Baker's throwing is clearly off.  We can see it in many games.  Not sure if it's him or the receivers or both.  It concerns me with all this talent, but our record is 2-4 right now.  Any quality coach would find ways to work around a ineffective oline.  He's being used by smarter coaches and unless i'm wrong, we'll continue to see it.  And I hope i am

@browns52 said:

awesome point there but i don't think the pats organization will let him go.....if he gets an offer, the pats will match it and then some to keep him...i know i would...

He had take the Colts job a couple of years ago.  He backed out.  Don't think it had anything to do with the money.

@the-gipper said:

Maybe should have brought in Josh McDaniels

awesome point there but i don't think the pats organization will let him go.....if he gets an offer, the pats will match it and then some to keep him...i know i would...

@calfoxwc said:

I believe there are seven first year head coaches, and all of them are about 2-4 or worse.

except for Green Bay.

    It takes time and talent. Kitchens has the talent to inspire the team hugely.

They have played like it. Kitchens stays.

Gregg Williams - 33-0 loss. I'll keep Kitchens.

was not all williams fault....jets qb played awful...put their d in bad situations....plus it was the pats....if it was us, jets would not have been shutout and our woeful redzone offense would not have scored anywhere near 33 pts......kitchens has some talent on offense...the ol stinks so he does not have all the talent that you think he has because with all these so called skilled players, they ain't doin shit except for chubb....until we fix the ol, we have limited talent there....