@nickers said:

When does the defense start taking responsibility for they're ineptness? They look slow.. uninterested and bamboozled on idiot plays... It's time they get some of the shit being slung Freddie and Bakers way...

you are the only one that notices this besides me.....not only slow, but undisciplined....and they can't hit worth a shit....the secondary plays olay olay defense...they all blow at tackling...everyone of them....thanks nickers....

@clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

The best teams with "less talent" have way stronger Offensive lines. We do not have that and it shows.

that is why it is not all bakers fault...i think it is mostly on the ol...they suck....

@nickers said:

This is why I feel Myles Garrett is OVERRATED!.. He never makes the "Game Changing Play" He DOES NOT dominate games that you expect a "Generational" player to dominate. He's not a Bruce Smith or Reggie White type.. He's a tier below. This is what we drafted Garrett to be.. It's his 3rd year... So far.. I'm not impressed... He's good.. but not GREAT! Now sure.. the rest of the defense is struggling.. I get that.. As a whole.. so far... They stink!..

I totally get why you feel that way.  How many games have we seen Khalil Mack win by himself?  How many strip sacks does HE have?  I saw JJ Watt win games by himself and so on and so on.  Myles ALMOST won the Steelers game last year.  He hit bit right when he threw it, caused the ball to float to Joe Schobert, and Genard Avery missed the last block or else Schobert walks into the end zone.  Instead...Myles Garrett commits the worst block in the back penalty in the history of the game, our FG is much longer, and it's naturally blocked.  Tie game.

Speaking of Avery, he got a sack on his very first play last week and I hate everyone.

@jiggins7919 said:

Except for the Rams game, our defense just hasn't gotten the game-changing stop. When we ABSOLUTELY needed a stop, we couldn't get it in so many games. Seahawks game before half, Seahawks game in the 4th quarter, Broncos game where we didn't get the 4th down QB sneak and then allowed Broncos to go all the way down the field. We can't get the stop, get the turnover, the sack...or hell...maybe SCORE a touchdown for the team. Man, just one TD could've changed so much. 

This is why I feel Myles Garrett is OVERRATED!.. He never makes the "Game Changing Play" He DOES NOT dominate games that you expect a "Generational" player to dominate. He's not a Bruce Smith or Reggie White type.. He's a tier below. This is what we drafted Garrett to be.. It's his 3rd year... So far.. I'm not impressed... He's good.. but not GREAT! Now sure.. the rest of the defense is struggling.. I get that.. As a whole.. so far... They stink!..

@nickers said:

When does the defense start taking responsibility for they're ineptness? They look slow.. uninterested and bamboozled on idiot plays... It's time they get some of the shit being slung Freddie and Bakers way...

Except for the Rams game, our defense just hasn't gotten the game-changing stop. When we ABSOLUTELY needed a stop, we couldn't get it in so many games. Seahawks game before half, Seahawks game in the 4th quarter, Broncos game where we didn't get the 4th down QB sneak and then allowed Broncos to go all the way down the field. We can't get the stop, get the turnover, the sack...or hell...maybe SCORE a touchdown for the team. Man, just one TD could've changed so much. 

@the-gipper said:

Ken zampese 

I thought Landry WAS supposed to be the slot receiver, with OBJ and  either  Callaway or Higgins on the outsides.  To me, this is just another coaching fuckup where players are being misused/misplaced.

The QB coach was calling the plays last year after Haley was canned . Fat Freddy took credit for it. The QB coach wasn’t retained.

Damn dude, that's straight fire. It's really looking that way. 

Refresh my memory...who was that QB  coach?   I never thought about this....but it could indeed be a big factor. 

@icecube said:

Damn dude, that's straight fire. It's really looking that way. 

It's straight stupid.  You literally could see Freddie calling in plays last year on the headset. Or was that all a ruse too? Damn Freddie is a genius to go so far as to talk into a dead headset to make it look like he was calling plays.  Also there must have been a "ken zampese" type guy calling plays for the bears nagy and trubisky last year.  Only explanation as to why mitch and the bears offense is so bad this year after being very dangerous last year.  No way did other teams get lots of film to look over and figure out ways to cause a young qb struggle and make him regress. 

It's up to Freddie and Baker to make the adjustment now to how the defense adjusted.  Im not happy it's taken this long but don't believe the fat walrus bob Wylie who had an axe to grind with freddie for not retaining him

but then he makes some high point lobbed   Ball catch and then we cycle back to the beginning 

@7moses7 said:

The QB coach was calling the plays last year after Haley was canned . Fat Freddy took credit for it. The QB coach wasn’t retained.

Damn dude, that's straight fire. It's really looking that way. 

Zombo said:

First and foremost... it's Baker.... Our quarterback play is near the bottom of the league and that is how you lose.  Yup.   That's the 800 lb gorilla.  

So how do you make him more effective? Hunt will help. If Nojoku comes back that will help. Those guys can catch the short routes and free up Landry and OBJ downfield. Personally, I'd like to see Landry in the slot...the Edleman of the Browns.  We miss Njoku.  

The Higgins thing is a mystery to me too. Wouldn't ya like to know what he said about Freddie's wife that got him so far at the end of the bench?  The guy can catch!  But Fred Belichick won'i play him.

Then there are Baker's blockers.         

Z

I love Dorsey.  But he screwed up by sending our good RG away because he thought Corbette was gonna step in there and play well.  -  Bad enough he DRAFTED Corbette, but he traded away the GOOD guy.  That's like dribbling the basketball off your foot and then fouling the guy who recovered it.  

@the-gipper said:

That is a factor, sure.  Not, to my mind, a determining factor.

Kitchens certainly isn’t Harbaugh but he is only halfway through his first season as an HC. Also coaching one of the youngest teams in the league.
It ain’t over till the fat lady sings..

@clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

The best teams with "less talent" have way stronger Offensive lines. We do not have that and it shows.

That is a factor, sure.  Not, to my mind, a determining factor.

@the-gipper said:

 a guy like John Harbaugh can take a less talented team and win some big games,   and Freddie can't win games against weak opponents.

The best teams with "less talent" have way stronger Offensive lines. We do not have that and it shows.

@lbc-mike said:

orange polka dots with tasles.

I'm for it. Hey, Tour de France the King of the Mountains jersey is red polka dots. 

Zombo said:

First and foremost... it's Baker. Our defense isnt great, but it would be good enough if we were scoring like the second half of last year. Our quarterback play is near the bottom of the league and that is how you lose.

So how do you make him more effective? Hunt will help. If Nojoku comes back that will help. Those guys can catch the short routes and free up Landry and OBJ downfield.

The Higgins thing is a mystery to me too. Why isnt he playing? I smell Dorsey on that one. But Baker likes him, so play him.

Then there are Baker's blockers. We've got two starters on a healthy offensive line that are two of the worst at their position in the league... RG and LT. That's on Dorsey. But Joe Thomas and Kevin Zeitler aren't walking through that door, so we have to scheme better to protect our weaknesses and give Baker a chance to get his mojo back.

Z

Well, there is all that, but mostly, I view it as poor coaching, scheming, play calling.  Not that Baker and others are blameless, but the fact is, a guy like John Harbaugh can take a less talented team and win some big games,   and Freddie can't win games against weak opponents.

@orion said:

I have been noticing that this year.   During replays sometimes you can see that his man was open, he sees but hesitates, then throws it too late and it's defended or is delivered behind the receiver because he can't lead him into the defender who is NOW 'in play' whereas he wouldn't have been if he threw it on time.  It's like, THIS YEAR, the game is just a little too fast for him.

Check out this article explaining our 3rd and 4th downs.  I'm actually going to post it as its own thread because I think it's that important and many people will be shocked when they read it.  The article is very well done and incorporates several videos to illustrate its points.  The play we're discussing on that 4th down is super awful for a few reasons.  First, like we said, Baker was late to Landry.  Secondly, Harris HAD to run the wrong route or our offensive coaches are MORONS.  You never want to have two receivers occupying the same part of the field like that!  Had Harris gone vertical or to the outside, he would've taken his defender with him.  

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/11/the-browns-on-3rd-and-4th-down-how-theyre-tipping-off-opponents-and-why-obj-isnt-getting-the-ball-more-film-review.html

@diehardbrownsfan said:

We're cursed.  

I thought you stormed off and quit this board? 

@brownpile said:

Many have commented on Mayfield's "regression" this year.  It's a little comical to talk about regression for a second-year QB, I think.

Last year he threw into double coverage a lot... a LOT... and got away with it.  

This year he's trying to do the same - throw into double and triple coverage and rely on the strength of his arm to get the ball there... and is throwing more interceptions as a result because teams have better preparation for him.  He hasn't developed a finesse pass, yet.  Just throw it hard.  Understandable.  He's only in his second year.

So, now he's gun shy.  Doesn't want to throw interceptions, so he's late... or second guesses himself... or - worst of all - tries to throw even harder.  Classic sophomore season.

Did you REALLY expect anything else?  If so, then just review the overwhelming history of QBs who started playing right out of college... it's not pretty.  And it goes to show that this RARELY works.  You can't expect instant gratification.  It just doesn't work that way.  Never did.  Still doesn't, despite the expectations of teams and fans.

As an end note, I would point out that there is history on his side in the form of other hard-throwing QBs who struggled in their first few seasons until they learned the game.  John Elway comes to mind.  We can talk Mayfield in 2022 and we'll see what we're saying then.

You make some good points & I agree with most. Baker DID show outstanding anticipation & touch late last year & I think he's smart & determined enough that he will study "then" & learn from "now". There was a time when rookie QBs seldom saw the field for 2 or 3 years. We need some patience..Baker (IMHO) will be fine.

Mike