@bjh2130 said:

I really hope he gives us a hometown discount being from the area and being the team that gave him a second chance.  I don't know how much teams will be willing to pay him but I tend to believe it will be more than we want to offer a running back that isn't our "lead" back. Hopefully teams still have concerns and we can sign him to a similar contract that Duke Johnson signed (which was a really good contract for Duke).

Doubtful, he led the NFL in rushing yards one season. As long as he remains well behaved, he'll command top dollar after his rookie contract expires.

@icecube said:

Hunt was less rusty than I thought he would be. He showed some burst. But how many touches can you give him with the way Chubb is laying it down?

I think 20 touches to chubb and 12-15 to hunt is ideal (both playing well)  but obviously you could ride the hot hand.  Yesterday they were both playing well hunt had 11 touches and chubb right around 20.

@jiggins7919 said:

That's a good point Bbedward. Many of us, including myself, have been hard on Freddie and his coaching prowess. But he nailed the usage of Hunt, and it definitely makes me hopeful for he can bring. 

Hunt was less rusty than I thought he would be. He showed some burst. But how many touches can you give him with the way Chubb is laying it down?

@mddawg said:

Execution is poor because of lack of attention to detail which is due to poor coaching. This was evident yesterday, listen to Joe Thomas on the ThomaHawk show break it down this week.

Well, that is certainly a major part of it, if not the whole kit and caboodle.

@bjh2130 said:

So people are suggesting that they do what they were doing early on in the year when Freddie got roasted for it? 

That's why I'm not banging the Freddie sucks at playcalling drum that most are.  Has he had a few like 4th and 9 draw play atrocious? Sure. However it's not the playcall its the execution.  It's Baker not seeing an open receiver or getting rid of the ball on a 3 step drop.  It is a receiver curling his route off too loose. It's an offensive lineman losing his one on one battle. Most of those are coachable things and need to be fixed. Some fixed quickly by attention to detail others take longer and some take new players.

Execution is poor because of lack of attention to detail which is due to poor coaching. This was evident yesterday, listen to Joe Thomas on the ThomaHawk show break it down this week.

@the-gipper said:

Well....I don't think that is going to happen until we get to next year and free agency and the draft.  I guess we gotta suck it up with what we got.

If we can't punch the ball in on short yardage situations at the goal line I like the idea of spreading out the offense even on short yardage situations at the goal line. I think it is our only option at this time.

@oldbrownsfan said:

I also have doubts about our O line's ability to block down at the goal line. If that is our weakness (which I think it is) than I like the idea of spreading it out which plays to our strength. We need to upgrade the line though. We have got to have lineman capable of blocking at the goal line. I am still stunned we had first and goal at the one and came away empty after 8 attempts.

Well....I don't think that is going to happen until we get to next year and free agency and the draft.  I guess we gotta suck it up with what we got.

@the-gipper said:

I heard one analysis say that Yes....absolutely, out OL is not big enough, strong enough, talented enough to go mano a mano against the defensive lines in this league and force the ball into the end zone. In essence they said that this team needs an infusion of talent on the OL....in at least 2 if not 3 positions. They also said this team desperately needs a fullback.

They said that the only possible remedy for this group is to actually do the opposite of what they are doing:     Instead of bunching up in goal line situations....where they inevitably get beat, that they need to spread it out.....make the DL cover the whole wife field

And apparently, FYI, that is just what they did on the last TD....they spread it out, and that allowed Higgins to get wide open for the TD. 

I also have doubts about our O line's ability to block down at the goal line. If that is our weakness (which I think it is) than I like the idea of spreading it out which plays to our strength. We need to upgrade the line though. We have got to have lineman capable of blocking at the goal line. I am still stunned we had first and goal at the one and came away empty after 8 attempts.

@bjh2130 said:

So people are suggesting that they do what they were doing early on in the year when Freddie got roasted for it? 

I don't know if that is what Freddie did early on.  I do know that this OL cannot get a push on the line of scrimmage at the goal line.  That seems clear.   I also know that they had success on the last TD by spreading it out.   I guess the deal is this:   It seems like they have a 0-10% chance of bunching it up and running the ball into the endzone.....because they just can't block well enough man on man to be successful at that.  So, by spreading it out....the vastly increase that percent at a chance at success.  So, what do you do?  Go with the better odds.  (maybe mjp can give you those odds)

That's why I'm not banging the Freddie sucks at playcalling drum that most are.  Has he had a few like 4th and 9 draw play atrocious? Sure. However it's not the playcall its the execution.  It's Baker not seeing an open receiver or getting rid of the ball on a 3 step drop.  It is a receiver curling his route off too loose. It's an offensive lineman losing his one on one battle. Most of those are coachable things and need to be fixed. Some fixed quickly by attention to detail others take longer and some take new players.

I even think much of Baker's problems....his jitteryness if you will, is based on his distrust of his OL.   He would never admit that, putting the blame on himself...but I still think that is a big part of it. 

@the-gipper said:

I heard one analysis say that Yes....absolutely, out OL is not big enough, strong enough, talented enough to go mano a mano against the defensive lines in this league and force the ball into the end zone. In essence they said that this team needs an infusion of talent on the OL....in at least 2 if not 3 positions. They also said this team desperately needs a fullback.

They said that the only possible remedy for this group is to actually do the opposite of what they are doing:     Instead of bunching up in goal line situations....where they inevitably get beat, that they need to spread it out.....make the DL cover the whole wife field

And apparently, FYI, that is just what they did on the last TD....they spread it out, and that allowed Higgins to get wide open for the TD. 

So people are suggesting that they do what they were doing early on in the year when Freddie got roasted for it? 

That's why I'm not banging the Freddie sucks at playcalling drum that most are.  Has he had a few like 4th and 9 draw play atrocious? Sure. However it's not the playcall its the execution.  It's Baker not seeing an open receiver or getting rid of the ball on a 3 step drop.  It is a receiver curling his route off too loose. It's an offensive lineman losing his one on one battle. Most of those are coachable things and need to be fixed. Some fixed quickly by attention to detail others take longer and some take new players.

@oldbrownsfan said:

I see your point Tex but I have to question the ability of our O line's blocking down at the goal line. Even Hunt can't make a hole if it is not there.

I heard one analysis say that Yes....absolutely, out OL is not big enough, strong enough, talented enough to go mano a mano against the defensive lines in this league and force the ball into the end zone. In essence they said that this team needs an infusion of talent on the OL....in at least 2 if not 3 positions. They also said this team desperately needs a fullback.

They said that the only possible remedy for this group is to actually do the opposite of what they are doing:     Instead of bunching up in goal line situations....where they inevitably get beat, that they need to spread it out.....make the DL cover the whole wife field

And apparently, FYI, that is just what they did on the last TD....they spread it out, and that allowed Higgins to get wide open for the TD. 

@texasag1969 said:

At the same time that ball barely traveled an inch or so forward so if he had actually pulled it slightly backwards it would have been a fumble. I think it is always best to let it go until it all plays out and let replay decide whether it was a pass or a fumble. We've been screwed by too quick a whistle in the past. I'd rather see it let go and see what really happened in slow motion replay.

Every single one of those barely go forward and I've rarely ever seen one not blown dead (maybe twice including yesterday). Hunt was running in front him.  He was popping it up to him. Even if it goes straight up and down its an incomplete pass. His arms are going up and forward pretty hard to throw it backwards in that case.

@bjh2130 said:

A decent ref doesn't originally call that a touchdown. That play has been a staple in college for 10 years and become prevalent in the NFL in the last 3. The replay was the thing that saved us. As soon as it happened I was telling anyone who would listen that is a pass.  They intentionally do that in case of a mishandle so if it hits the turf it's a incomplete pass instead of a fumble.  I'm not trying to be combative it's just an indictment of the NFL and their refs that they don't know the rules.

At the same time that ball barely traveled an inch or so forward so if he had actually pulled it slightly backwards it would have been a fumble. I think it is always best to let it go until it all plays out and let replay decide whether it was a pass or a fumble. We've been screwed by too quick a whistle in the past. I'd rather see it let go and see what really happened in slow motion replay.

@mddawg said:

Agree, we need this much talent to overcome Freddie's poor coaching. Why toss the ball to someone who hasn't played football in almost a year? We were fortunately officiated by decent refs this week , otherwise the season would've been over.

A decent ref doesn't originally call that a touchdown. That play has been a staple in college for 10 years and become prevalent in the NFL in the last 3. The replay was the thing that saved us. As soon as it happened I was telling anyone who would listen that is a pass.  They intentionally do that in case of a mishandle so if it hits the turf it's a incomplete pass instead of a fumble.  I'm not trying to be combative it's just an indictment of the NFL and their refs that they don't know the rules.

@bbedward said:

Props to Freddie for actually using Hunt in the game plan, I didn't really have high hopes for him.

Still think we ran the ball way too little, but it was good to see Freddie got him involved.

Agree, we need this much talent to overcome Freddie's poor coaching. Why toss the ball to someone who hasn't played football in almost a year? We were fortunately officiated by decent refs this week , otherwise the season would've been over.

@bbedward said:

Props to Freddie for actually using Hunt in the game plan, I didn't really have high hopes for him.

Still think we ran the ball way too little, but it was good to see Freddie got him involved.

That's a good point Bbedward. Many of us, including myself, have been hard on Freddie and his coaching prowess. But he nailed the usage of Hunt, and it definitely makes me hopeful for he can bring. 

Still think we ran the ball way too little, but it was good to see Freddie got him involved.

@the-gipper said:

Are our problems at the goal line ultimately just that our OL  is not good enough to perform and are getting beaten like redheaded stepchildren at the line of scrimmage....or is there something in the blocking schemes that are FUBAR such that we can't run the goddamned thing in from inside the 5?

I felt like our Oline and blockers in general were simply getting swarmed over and manhandled on the goal line situations. Buffalo seemed to be quite stout at the goal line. 

@texasag1969 said:

That continued pitchout play was ridiculous. Just hand it off to Hunt. He finds any little crack or powers sideways past any defender breaking through. It's what he does best. Go watch his carries in the game and you'll see how he does it. It made no sense to not use him at crunch time.

I agree Hunt should be the go to guy down at the goal line and short yardage. 

@oldbrownsfan said:

I see your point Tex but I have to question the ability of our O line's blocking down at the goal line. Even Hunt can't make a hole if it is not there.

That continued pitchout play was ridiculous. Just hand it off to Hunt. He finds any little crack or powers sideways past any defender breaking through. It's what he does best. Go watch his carries in the game and you'll see how he does it. It made no sense to not use him at crunch time.

@texasag1969 said:

Handing it to the wrong back. Hunt can cure that in a NY minute. That was his greatest value in KC and we should have known it. Chubb's greatest value is in getting us to that position in the first place as the workhorse. But you need the thoroughbred to finish the race.

I see your point Tex but I have to question the ability of our O line's blocking down at the goal line. Even Hunt can't make a hole if it is not there.

@the-gipper said:

Are our problems at the goal line ultimately just that our OL  is not good enough to perform and are getting beaten like redheaded stepchildren at the line of scrimmage....or is there something in the blocking schemes that are FUBAR such that we can't run the goddamned thing in from inside the 5?

Handing it to the wrong back. Hunt can cure that in a NY minute. That was his greatest value in KC and we should have known it. Chubb's greatest value is in getting us to that position in the first place as the workhorse. But you need the thoroughbred to finish the race.