@nero said:

Some people will always complain on Belichick for sitting Butler in the Superbowl they lost, but I bet you he doesn't question himself imparting discipline even in the most important stage

Bellichick is a jerk sometimes.  Just ask any Patriot.  What he shoulda' done was played him, won the super bowl, and then trade his ass to Cleveland.  It certainly taught Collins a lesson.

If you think about the team first, you go to every meeting in time, you practise every assigned day and, if you have to, you practise in the cold. 

If you think about the team first, you swallow your pride and don't use a fucking 6 lb helmet (more than three times heavier than a motorbike helmet) and smash another persons unprotected head. 

Maybe setting discipline can make you lose a game, but it makes you win championships. And I'm fine with it. 

Some people will always complain on Belichick for sitting Butler in the Superbowl they lost, but I bet you he doesn't question himself imparting discipline even in the most important stage. Because that's the same discipline that had given him 5 rings prior with the Patriots.

The same discipline that handed him his 6th for New England one year later. 

@tour2ma said:

You obviously missed the Top 100 episode on the front seven.

Belichick told the story about LT being 5 minutes late for a Saturday D meeting. After the meeting he told Parcells about LT's tardiness and added, "I thought you should know."

Parcells replied, "Why didn't you just wait for him?"

Unless there's a team precedent under Freddie of which I am not aware, nothing says "miss a game for missing a practice", but you also can't delay punishment a week due to need.

Assuming this is a first offense a set fine ($10k) plus missing a start (sitting a full series) should have been adequate.

? Way to work with me here Tour!   

We have some common ground on the Randall situation in that the punishment couldn't wait.  Since Freddie said the situation was going to be handled in-house rather than through the media - we can only speculate which is why you used "assuming." Randall hasn't been a guy that's played for us every week so when there's only 5 games left on the schedule with a shrinking margin of error - is it really too much to ask of a veteran PROFESSIONAL Football player to be on time or show up to practice like his teammates have to?  Missing practice or even being late with an unacceptable excuse (after-the-fact) sure didn't make him look very interested in his profession, team or the goals ahead. For a guy that wants a new/bigger contract here or elsewhere next year - this isn't a very good reflection of the guy.  I haven't been really impressed with the guy's professionalism this year any more than Green Bay appeared to be in the past.  Didn't Randall get himself kicked out of the 1st Pittsburgh game?  He's sure finding reasons to miss playing time this year.

The suspension shows this team there are consequences when their actions can hurt this team and/or it's preparation; so they need to think about what they are doing moving forward if they CARE.

@clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

I wouldn’t call D.Randall a bad trade, we got him for some peanuts, basically.

One man's trash is another man's trash?

@gumby73 said:

Is the O & Poe War over? ? this^^ moaning bastard has been waiting for 3 straight wins to have his bitch fest moments on here.. now s'he's nagged at every member on here but you.. Give'm hell Dutch If we win? Browns52 ain't never on here..MarkO & myself have dusted up with this kid on many times.. Have at It!! i waste no time reading 52'ing it..

Orion is a good dude, and PoG is just, well... everyone knows that...  

But Browns52 is just an idiot. I'm sure you've noticed gumby - I don't suffer fools. 

@dutch-oven said:

You were the biggest enabler of Josh Gordon on this board. I'm sure you made excuse after excuse for Manziel too. 

Josh Gordon is my guy. 

Manziel? Nah, I wanted Derek Carr. 

@dutch-oven said:

Because 52 in his handle is his IQ? 

Is the O & Poe War over? ? this^^ moaning bastard has been waiting for 3 straight wins to have his bitch fest moments on here.. now s'he's nagged at every member on here but you.. Give'm hell Dutch If we win? Browns52 ain't never on here..MarkO & myself have dusted up with this kid on many times.. Have at It!! i waste no time reading 52'ing it..

@poeticg said:

You make a guy run, you make him do extra, you make him miss a start, you call him out in front of his peers, you sit him for a quarter or a half, you don't go to the game without him. All that FAMILY bullshit that they preach in the locker room... you don't leave a brother at home with so much at stake to get off on a power trip. That's just another example of "I call the plays/shots" that is going to cost Freddy his duty. His goddamn duty is to beat Pittsburgh, to continue to stack wins. He failed. 

You were the biggest enabler of Josh Gordon on this board. I'm sure you made excuse after excuse for Manziel too. 

@orion said:

And Bellichick probably lost a super bowl because HE held a player out of the game.

At what point does The Greater Good kick in?

----------------

I honestly don't know what the correct answer is.   All I know is that we LOST to another 3rd string QB.  Our season came to a screeching halt.  And all of us, as well as the 'other 52' were 'probably' affected by the decision to punish one guy.  In essence, the rest of us got punished too.

There's gotta be a better way, no?

There's no point in this argument anymore, Orion.

You literally keep responding with the same things. 

I suppose we should just agree to disagree. 

@dutch-oven said:

Actions have consequences. 

The Browns are a sloppy, undisciplined organization. 

You aren't going to fix this loser culture by basically telling your players "well, there's a sliding scale of what you can and cannot do around here based on who does it and when it is done". 

Kitchens isn't the person who fucked up. Randall did. 

And Bellichick probably lost a super bowl because HE held a player out of the game.

At what point does The Greater Good kick in?

----------------

I honestly don't know what the correct answer is.   All I know is that we LOST to another 3rd string QB.  Our season came to a screeching halt.  And all of us, as well as the 'other 52' were 'probably' affected by the decision to punish one guy.  In essence, the rest of us got punished too.

There's gotta be a better way, no?

-------- going to bed.  I'm old....or very, very old....as I was told earlier this eve.  lol

@orion said:

I repeat, I hear ya.  But our season is now done.  Was that good for the other 52?   Was that good for you and me?  

How else could it have been handled?  A fine?  Could there have been a way to do it other than hurt the team?

Actions have consequences. 

The Browns are a sloppy, undisciplined organization. 

You aren't going to fix this loser culture by basically telling your players "well, there's a sliding scale of what you can and cannot do around here based on who does it and when it is done". 

Kitchens isn't the person who fucked up. Randall did. 

So there are restrictions, right? 

What I want to know is why are you mad at Kitchens for discipling him INSTEAD OF BEING MAD AT THE GUY FOR FUCKING UP DURING THE MOST IMPORTANT WEEK OF THE SEASON? 

And I'm not yelling at you Orion, it's everyone who says they're tired of undisciplined, selfish players out of one side of their mouth but then want to pick and choose who and when players get disciplined. 

Didn't the entire Josh Gordon/Johnny Manziel debacle teach anyone anything?

I repeat, I hear ya.  But our season is now done.  Was that good for the other 52?   Was that good for you and me?  

How else could it have been handled?  A fine?  Could there have been a way to do it other than hurt the team?

------------

Dear God, I'm on the same side of the fence as Po.    huh boy 

@orion said:

I hear ya.  But our season is now done.  So, was that good for the other 52?  

So there are restrictions, right? 

What I want to know is why are you mad at Kitchens for discipling him INSTEAD OF BEING MAD AT THE GUY FOR FUCKING UP DURING THE MOST IMPORTANT WEEK OF THE SEASON? 

And I'm not yelling at you Orion, it's everyone who says they're tired of undisciplined, selfish players out of one side of their mouth but then want to pick and choose who and when players get disciplined. 

Didn't the entire Josh Gordon/Johnny Manziel debacle teach anyone anything? 

@jcam222 said:

Where on the earth would you come up with Myles having a thug attitude?? One of the crazier tales I’ve seen on Myles. 

Because the 52 in his handle is his IQ? 

@dutch-oven said:

It always cracks me up when inevitably the Browns fanbase says, en masse, WE WANT A HARD ASS HEAD COACH WHO TAKES NO SHIT FROM HIS PLAYERS, because when most of them actually run into a coach like this, or a coach who tries to exhibit this trait, the same Browns fans want their "hard ass head coach who takes no shit from his players" coach to be restricted with plenty of fine print and exceptions. 

I hear ya.  But our season is now done.  So, was that good for the other 52?  

@browns52 said:

i don't think i heard vernons name more than 10 times this yr when he was playing...he sucked...don't care if he was injured....he was a total non factor...injuries are part of the game....and as far as garrett the thug, i would not be surprised to hear his name during the off season associated in some kind of felony situation...he has  a thug mentality and will probably get into some kind of trouble again...

Where on the earth would you come up with Myles having a thug attitude?? One of the crazier tales I’ve seen on Myles. 

@orion said:

 Couldn't he have just given him a spanking or something?

Randall needs to be 'mic'd up' to what he did.. Duck hit on 3 of 4 long ones..but Randall could have certainly helped the other 52 guys, when Duck dinked for another 10 of 11 passes for under 4 yards in completions that went for yards far further down the field.. 

Add to the list of losing Vernon/ Chad Thomas/ Greedy/ and Tretter playing on one leg, No we couldn't..Mainly after your coaches elect to run the ball twice, while Baker plays Micheal Jackson running around in his 'Us against the world' white glove ?..I'd expect the injury list to be a long one come Hump Day ?   

@gumby73 said:

https://brownszone.com/2019/12/02/freddie-kitchens-says-safety-damarious-randall-will-return-this-week-after-being-benched-vs-steelers/  ? what could happen on a Thanksgiving Day practice?

Thanks.  Yeah, I heard that part of the interview.

I understand that you have to discipline guys....for the good of the other 52 (unless you're Josh Gordon...in which case you don't even have to go to training camp).    But our season was on the line there in Pittsburgh.  We couldn't afford to be without our better players.  And as it turned out, we COULDN'T afford it.    Couldn't he have just given him a spanking or something?

@orion said:

To Randall:  I heard today that he didn't want to practice outside in the cold.    -  but I'm sure there's no shortage of stories...

https://brownszone.com/2019/12/02/freddie-kitchens-says-safety-damarious-randall-will-return-this-week-after-being-benched-vs-steelers/  ? what could happen on a Thanksgiving Day practice?

@browns52 said:

and as far as garrett the thug, i would not be surprised to hear his name during the off season associated in some kind of felony situation...he has  a thug mentality and will probably get into some kind of trouble again...

Genius take. 

@browns52 said:

fucking vernon has not done a whole lot and being injured did not help.....non factor this yr.....would not be surprised if we try to get rid of him....

Ok so if Dorsey could predict that Vernon would get hurt and be injured when we needed him, I’m sure he doesn’t make the trade.