@the-gipper said:

That is likely true, meaning that that is a failure to adjust on the part of the coach/play caller.

What I want to know is, why don't we throw 4-5 buttonhook routes a game to OBJ? He often has a gigantic cushion. It seems like a good decision to get 6-8 yards when it appears so easy to get. Yet we hardly ever do it. Strange, right? Perhaps I'm oversimplifying it. 

@orion said:

I heard a fan call into 92.3 The Fan  and say that he watches the receivers sometimes and that they're running deep routes and by the time it's time to throw the ball to them Baker's already chucked it at somebody else or he's fled the pocket because the line can't hold up long enough.

That is likely true, meaning that that is a failure to adjust on the part of the coach/play caller.

@orion said:

I heard a fan call into 92.3 The Fan  and say that he watches the receivers sometimes and that they're running deep routes and by the time it's time to throw the ball to them Baker's already chucked it at somebody else or he's fled the pocket because the line can't hold up long enough.

That's definitely been the case for some games this year, and I can remember very vividly that this happened in our first game against the Titans.  We had OBJ running free down the field 2-3 times but we just didn't have the time for Baker to cut it loose.  I mean it was down to nanoseconds, but we just couldn't protect well enough.  This also happened in our 2nd Pittsburgh game, which as we know, was the game of the year and we choked.

However, there have also been games like last week where our OL dominated in pass blocking.  We had our best pass blocking grade of the season, yet we couldn't make the plays down the field.  To be fair, Baker missed 4 deep passes by a total of 10 inches.  OBJ and Landry each caught passes barely out of bounds, and there were others that were just a BIT off.  Still, these are the kind of plays we have to make if we're going to be explosive at all, and the deep plays down the field are exactly what has tortured us this year.  We have the best running back in the league, yet we still can't figure out a way to get points.  The Cardinals have Chandler Jones and T-Suggs, so they can definitely get after the passer.  That being said, their defense as a whole is rather pathetic, so there WILL be shots down the field available.

We just have to hit on them, which has been something we haven't been able to consistently accomplish.

@clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

Also, I’m starting to feel that Kitchens’ play-calling ideologies require a strong offensive line.

I heard a fan call into 92.3 The Fan  and say that he watches the receivers sometimes and that they're running deep routes and by the time it's time to throw the ball to them Baker's already chucked it at somebody else or he's fled the pocket because the line can't hold up long enough.

@browns52 said:

i don't listen to the talking heads on espn for the most part....i like steven a.   most of the time....he did not like the hire either...when all the espn folks say kitchens more or less was a bad hire, then there is something to it....i think he stinks just like the rest of the team...he might be the worse hire...look at the facts...records in most penalties...bad play calling.....letting blockhead mayfield control the team.....oh wait a minute...its doctor mayfield now....he made the diagnosis on the training staff's inability to fix yodell.....what else...oh....the garrett incident....and the best of all, the fucking tshirt incident...there is probably more that i cannot think of at this time...but man this was a garbage hire by a fucking owner that don't know shit about football...

Has anyone heard about the "incident" at the Sr. Bowl where Freddie allegedly got so hammered he had to be ushered back to his room, and it was embarrassing?  I guess it was pretty bad, so they say.

@the-cysko-kid said:

All I know is that I despise Freddie kitchens in every way possible. From him being a fat slob to being a moron hillbilly. He can't do anything right and I struggle to think of a single thing he's done well at all.  I just can't stand the guy whatsoever. I don't think I've ever soured on a coach quite this quickly. 

On a side note I just watched a special on HBO called Belichick and Saban: The art of coaching. To watch both of those legendary coaches wearing browns gear and now we have Freddie f'n kitchens. 

Christ. 

hey hey hey.....don't steal my quotes man.....fat slob and hillbilly.....those are mine....heh heh heh....good post though...

Also, I’m starting to feel that Kitchens’ play-calling ideologies require a strong offensive line.

@gumby73 said:

Horse Hockey Gip? I thought nothing to your posting, but to respond to this^^...1) I simply get home from work & open the new topics first 2) I kept that article, I posted in my laptop as a quick reference as to how & whom's we got to Freddie..it was a easy load to respond to above of whom's.. 3) if ya think that's GM speak? Fine! that your opinion.. But christ, quit playing Board judge 

If you DON"T think that was just  "GM speak"....then your insight into the situation was lacking.

But.....IF YOU are satisfied with just  "It was the right choice for us going forward in the future".....then I guess that works for you.   Ignorance is Bliss.

I am not saying that Dorsey owes us an explanation on the choices he makes.  I am just saying that I am cognizant that we are not and never would be given the full, complete, honest story of how those decisions are made.  I will just accept that in these situations,  spewing cliches is the placebo we must all swallow.

@the-gipper said:

I agree with your last sentence.. He tends to get too cute...

@orion said:

lol,  I had to look that one up.  

It is a cousin to posifuckingtively.

Dorsey sometimes tells you what he thinks (when asked if the Hunt signing made Duke expendable, his answer was, Not yet.  -  that was a BAD answer.....shouldn't have been said)....but..it WAS a truthful answer.  A rarity.

The executives are supposed to give the 'party line' answer....an answer to NOT give away trade secrets, or piss anyone off...many times, not addressing the question at all with their answer.  Or as we like to say, 'Coach Speak'.

Yes....and that is what I said about  Dorsey's answers to the hiring of Kitchens....that his answered contained many words without saying a thing....yet Gumby seems to be giving me shit about that....as if I was saying something horrible about Dorsey.  No...I am just acknowledging that it is the same old  horse hockey  (courtesy of Colonel Potter)

-------------

I've been a Freddie supporter.....but you guys are beating me down to submission.   I like his attacking offensive minded style.  But I don't like reckless 4th down calls.  I don't like losing to the Steelers, so when he punished the whole team and all of us by making Randall sit in the corner at home, that pissed me off.  (I know some of you are happy with that trade-off)   And then wearing that stupid T-shirt in public is just plain dumb.  You're the HC of an NFL football team.  Not the local bowling league captain.   And all season long he's 'not cared' what Baker has said into the microphone....until now that he threw the team medics under the bus.  ------  But I like his attacking offensive minded style.

His  red zone offense at times has been sophomoric.....as in a sophomore in high school could sometimes design plays and an offense better.

@the-cysko-kid said:

All I know is that I despise Freddie kitchens in every way possible. From him being a fat slob to being a moron hillbilly. He can't do anything right and I struggle to think of a single thing he's done well at all.  I just can't stand the guy whatsoever. I don't think I've ever soured on a coach quite this quickly. 

On a side note I just watched a special on HBO called Belichick and Saban: The art of coaching. To watch both of those legendary coaches wearing browns gear and now we have Freddie f'n kitchens. 

Christ. 

Tell us how you really feel. 

@the-gipper said:

absofuckinglutely

lol,  I had to look that one up.  

Dorsey sometimes tells you what he thinks (when asked if the Hunt signing made Duke expendable, his answer was, Not yet.  -  that was a BAD answer.....shouldn't have been said)

The executives are supposed to give the 'party line' answer....an answer to NOT give away trade secrets, or piss anyone off...many times, not addressing the question at all with their answer.  Or as we like to say, 'Coach Speak'.

-------------

I've been a Freddie supporter.....but you guys are beating me down to submission.   I like his attacking offensive minded style.  But I don't like reckless 4th down calls.  I don't like losing to the Steelers, so when he punished the whole team and all of us by making Randall sit in the corner at home, that pissed me off.  (I know some of you are happy with that trade-off)   And then wearing that stupid T-shirt in public is just plain dumb.  You're the HC of an NFL football team.  Not the local bowling league captain.   And all season long he's 'not cared' what Baker has said into the microphone....until now that he threw the team medics under the bus.  ------  But I like his attacking offensive minded style.

@nickers said:

Nick Saban is a POS!.. I hate the asshole!

At least the 'Tide got rolled out of the playoffs this year. 

@browns149 said:

Nick Saban was the worst hire. He was aweful at Mia.  And then he lied and quit 

Nick Saban is a POS!.. I hate the asshole!

On a side note I just watched a special on HBO called Belichick and Saban: The art of coaching. To watch both of those legendary coaches wearing browns gear and now we have Freddie f'n kitchens. 

Christ. 

@the-gipper said:

That actually explains  nothing....other than that  Freddie was not on Dorsey's list of potential HC candidates over a year before he got the job.  All that explains is that "so and so was not right for us going forward into the future"  and that they felt that Kitchens "was right for us going forward in the future"....otherwise it tells us fuck all.....on why Ferd was hired or why the others were not.  "Not right going forward in the future" is not an explanation, but an excuse.  

I am sure that Dorsey didn't want to reveal the discussions on each candidate....and I am sure he may have fibbed on a few of them.  "Was Bruce Arians age a factor"?   Dorsey says no, but he may have been thinking:  Godamn right it is....we don't want a 66 year old guy in here running this team"   "Was Gregg Williams temperament a factor"...."no it was not, being the verbal response given....but "you're goddamn right its a factor, may have been the truth."

Neither Dorsey....nor any other GM/owner/whatever is ever going to tell the honest truth about why they chose X  and said "Adios" to Y. 

guess you are right...remember the manziel choice....the rumor was the gm did not want him but hasshit forced the issue...he wanted manziel and it was reported to have happened that way by many analysts/media folks...but like you say gip....no one ever comes out to own up to the mistakes because they don't want to look bad.....

@the-gipper said:

Well...here is a question.  Did Dorsey want a HC that he thought he could have complete control over?   I think we all know that it was going to be difficult to have complete control over Gregg Williams. 

I also heard that there was a split between the FO people:   the "Football" people in the FO...Dorsey, Highsmith, Wolf,  wanted Freddie.  The "Analytics" people...headed by DePodesta wanted Ken Stefanski....currrent OC, I believe of the Vikings.   The football people won out....which you would expect.   But sometimes they don't always make the right choice.

hey i forgot to add, it could have  been doctor mayfield who made the choice....don't forget, he is a doctor now.....doctors have alot of power....calling doctor moe, doctor larry, doctor curly....remember that stooges episode.....i just have to add some comedy here because i am totally sick of all this soap opera bullshit....

@gumby73 said:

   The End.. those were Dorsey's quotes or quote what you believe..  

Yes,  They were Dorsey's quotes...and as I said....they revealed absofuckinglutely nothing about why Ferd was chosen and others were not. 
 "we thought it best for the team going to the future".  WTF is that supposed to mean?    Its like a coach saying "we thought X QB gave us the best chance to win the game".    If there were truth, then the HC would say "our starting QB, Joe Blow, was sucking swamp water".   At least Tomlin admitted about  Rudolph  that he didn'nt think this duck guy  "would get us killed".  Dorsey didn't want to say  "I didn't want to have to deal with Gregg Williams and his personality any more"   Or "I think Arians is over the hill and he has had heart issues, and I know that the Cleveland Browns HC job is not for a guy with a weak heart".....nor did he .....or the other Green Bay crowd on this team want to admit  "we dealt with McCarthy in Green Bay...and fuck him, we don't want his ass here".   They would not admit  "Freddie is so inexperienced that we know that he will have no choice but to follow our instructions on how to run this team".  

"It is best for the team going forward"......a horseshit cliche is there ever was one. 

@d-bone said:

I love R2

 short circuit failure via Gipper Wars.. but still has the Chubb R2 abilities 

@the-gipper said:

Neither Dorsey....nor any other GM/owner/whatever is ever going to tell the honest truth about why they chose X  and said "Adios" to Y. 

   The End.. those were Dorsey's quotes or quote what you believe..