First reaction for me was that GMs want their own HCs. Thought was prompted by the first name on the list. Mangini's dismissal by the Walrus is book-ended by Dorsey opting for Freddie.

Next... and this one seems to fall apart in the most recent changes... we seem to have alternated "pliable" HCs with more "strong-willed" ones, i.e., Palmer, Davis, Crennel, Mangini, Shurmur.

Chud, Pet, Jackson??? I honestly don't know how to classify these three, but if I had to do so, then I'd only put Jackson in the "strong" grouo... as in weaselly strong.

@texasag1969 said:

^  plus

Coleman, Corbett, Gilbert, Kizer, Erving, Mingo  How can anyone pick so many losers with so many high draft picks?

Got me curious as to what the hit rate is for 1st-round picks. Google found this Bleacher article ( https://bleacherreport.com/articles/74206-what-are-an-nfl-first-round-picks-odds-for-success ). Here are the basic findings...

• Success rate (choices are starters) is 49% with 39% becoming Pro Bowlers.
• Bust rate (choices are out of the League) is 44%.
• Balance (7%) are backups.

How does the above, biased sample compare?

• Corbett (not a 1st-rounder) is starting. (1/6 ==> 17%)
• Gilbert is out of the league. (17%)
• Coleman (IR), Kizer (not a 1st-rounder), Irving and Mingo are backups. (4/6 ==> 67%)

So even with a hand-selected group meant to demo how bad we've been, out "bust rate" is a fraction of the League average. Admittedly not very comforting in light of fact same can be said of our success rate.

I'll look at our actual 1st-round performance a little later.

@gorka said:

Perennial losers is one thing...but I'm talking about the "extras", as in the examples I gave..."the shirt", the Myles Garret incident.

Whether by their own fault or just a lotta bad luck. A couple strictly on the fans.

Geez where do I start??

We had a tight end doing motorcycle stunts in a parking lot wrecking his knee.

We had a GM get suspended for texting to the coaches during a game.

We had players namely Joe Jurivicious who sued the Browns after contracting a staph infection.

We had sewage back up in a brand new stadium.

The Johnny Manziel fiasco.

The Josh Gordon fiasco.

We had a player cost us a game because he threw his helmet on the field...Dwayne Rudd. Really?

We had a coach who up and quit...Butch Davis.

The seemingly endless hiring and firing of coaches and regime changes. Unheard of.

No opening day wins since 99.

B. Edwards cuts his foot because he was practicing barefoot...to which Romeo said "just kids being kids".

Gerrard Warren arrested in enemy territory Pittsburgh while partying with Plaxico Burress.

A Pittsburgh Squeeler put his hands on one of our own.. a drunken Browns fan and slammed him to the turf for all to see. That got to me, I don't care if he was drunk.

His name escapes me, but a Browns DT was arrested for taking a gun to the airport.

People laugh at us for becoming champs after we leave Cleveland.

Braylon Edwards goes to OSU game instead of being with the Browns.

Peyton Hillis and strepgate.

Orlando Brown gets his eye shot out by a refs flag... could only happen to a Cleveland Brown.

Bottlegate.

That's all that comes to mind right now, I don't have all day.

Really people what the fuck is happening here!?!? Why us?  So what will it be next year I wonder..

Someone could write a book on this, and that isn't hyperbole.

don't remember what yr it was, but jacksonville turned the ball over 7 times....most of them in their territory and we scored 0 pts....that is a record....and i see it as the joe dimagio 56 game hitting streak....a record that will never be broken....how bout dat for emabarrasment....

@bob806 said:

Hard to argue, but I will:

I think these franchises warrant ridicule, but don't get it because it's NOT Cleveland.....Sacramento Kings (KC-Omaha Kings, Cincinnati Royals), San Diego Padres, and the Detroit Lions. The Arizona Cardinals have had moderate success in the last 10 years only, with a Super Bowl appearance and one of the greatest of all time in Larry Fitzgerald (and Kurt Warner for a brief time), otherwise they'd be worse. 

The Browns are akin to the Toronto Maple Leafs- both franchises have a huge fan base, and a history of(ancient) success. 

It effing bites for sure. It's hard to be so lousy for so long in a salary cap era. 

the only other franchise i see that may be equal to our piece of shit team are the new york knicks........they might be worse....

@mjp28 said:

Maybe we need a larger sample size.

pretty damn pathetic......

@texasag1969 said:

^  plus

Coleman, Corbett, Gilbert, Kizer, Erving, Mingo  How can anyone pick so many losers with so many high draft picks?

You or I could have done better by just looking at the Mock Draft compilations.

Coleman, Corbett, Gilbert, Kizer, Erving, Mingo  How can anyone pick so many losers with so many high draft picks?

@bob806 said:

Hard to argue, but I will:

I think these franchises warrant ridicule, but don't get it because it's NOT Cleveland.....Sacramento Kings (KC-Omaha Kings, Cincinnati Royals), San Diego Padres, and the Detroit Lions. The Arizona Cardinals have had moderate success in the last 10 years only, with a Super Bowl appearance and one of the greatest of all time in Larry Fitzgerald (and Kurt Warner for a brief time), otherwise they'd be worse. 

The Browns are akin to the Toronto Maple Leafs- both franchises have a huge fan base, and a history of(ancient) success. 

It effing bites for sure. It's hard to be so lousy for so long in a salary cap era. 

Perennial losers is one thing...but I'm talking about the "extras", as in the examples I gave..."the shirt", the Myles Garret incident.

Whether by their own fault or just a lotta bad luck. A couple strictly on the fans.

Geez where do I start??

We had a tight end doing motorcycle stunts in a parking lot wrecking his knee.

We had a GM get suspended for texting to the coaches during a game.

We had players namely Joe Jurivicious who sued the Browns after contracting a staph infection.

We had sewage back up in a brand new stadium.

The Johnny Manziel fiasco.

The Josh Gordon fiasco.

We had a player cost us a game because he threw his helmet on the field...Dwayne Rudd. Really?

We had a coach who up and quit...Butch Davis.

The seemingly endless hiring and firing of coaches and regime changes. Unheard of.

No opening day wins since 99.

B. Edwards cuts his foot because he was practicing barefoot...to which Romeo said "just kids being kids".

Gerrard Warren arrested in enemy territory Pittsburgh while partying with Plaxico Burress.

A Pittsburgh Squeeler put his hands on one of our own.. a drunken Browns fan and slammed him to the turf for all to see. That got to me, I don't care if he was drunk.

His name escapes me, but a Browns DT was arrested for taking a gun to the airport.

People laugh at us for becoming champs after we leave Cleveland.

Braylon Edwards goes to OSU game instead of being with the Browns.

Peyton Hillis and strepgate.

Orlando Brown gets his eye shot out by a refs flag... could only happen to a Cleveland Brown.

Bottlegate.

That's all that comes to mind right now, I don't have all day.

Really people what the fuck is happening here!?!? Why us?  So what will it be next year I wonder..

Someone could write a book on this, and that isn't hyperbole.

@mjp28 said:

I've been a BROWNS die hard fan for over 60 years, no turning back now !

We oldtimers are "All In" for "All Time"!

Mike

@gorka said:

If anyone hasn't learned this by now ...We are fans of the most ridiculed, laughed at, embarrassing franchise in the history of pro sports bar none. How the fuck does that feel.

This year brought:

Projected playoff /Super Bowl contenders resorted to being the same old Browns.

Myles Garretts helmet swinging episode resulting in an indefinite suspension.

Reports of OBJ and Landry saying "come get me". Whether true or not doesn't matter.

Kitchens "Pittsburgh Started It" shirt.

The pro sports version of the real housewives. 

@mjp28 said:

One thing for sure.....

Not sure why, I guess it has to do with not fucking with tradition. You could tell me there’s a 99% chance of the same results  for another 20 years and I’d still root for these fuckers. 

@mjp28 said:

The decade of 2010-present what have we learned about the BROWNS ?  Ownership, drafting, coaching, player development, whatever.

2019 6-9 plus one game left

2 hours of head scratching stuff I will never get back ?.. Am a firm believer, that most Head Coaches will get fired, but it also takes 15 other position coaches doing there jobs too..

Lets start with Mangini's past staff.. 10 are still coaching elsewhere..5 are out of the business..The Texans still have Mangini's ST & QB coaches on their staff. Bills have Brian Daboll as OC. Dallas has his RB coach, Jags have OL coach, How bout Rob Ryan? LB coach at Redskins, Matt Eberflus is DC at Colts & his former DB coach is coaching DB's at Atlanta..Eric's former WR coach is coaching at NC State..Steve Hagen his former TE coach will be in the XFL at Seattle..

2011-2012..Pat Shurmer inheriated most of Eric's staff in 2011. Six of Pat's hires (2 years here) are out of the business also..Pat's former hired QB coach is on TV now as the OC at Pitt, Mark Whipple..XFL LA Wildcats will have his WR/TE coach..Michigan St has his DE coach..Pat did hire us the one & only ST coach Chris Tabor, now still a Bear (barely).Pats former DB coach in Cleveland is at Eagles with a SB ring. Tim Hauck.. Pat's OC Brad Childress is a Bears Sr. Asst..

2013-Coach Chud... Out at Colts since 2017.. 10 of Chud's coaching hires our still in. While 7 are Out of business. Norv & Scott Turner are at Carolina. 49'ers have Chud's TE coach, coaching a very good TE at San Fran. Tenn. his OL asst. LAC have his OQCC..Chud got us Ray Horton too. Now the DB coach at Redskins. Ravens his DL coach, Eagles his LB coach. Tabor survives..

2014-15..Mike Pettine...What if Farmer never hit send on that text to Shanny? Guess we knew how this was going to end for Both.. Pettines hires, 11 are still in. While 9 are Out.(largest coaching staff) Dowell Loggains is the OC at Jets. Mike's WR coach is now the run game cord with Shanny at the 9'ers..TE coach at Skins. OL Coach at Baylor. That damn Jim O'Neil? Oakland's DB coach. Mike's DL coach is at Texans.Mike's DB coach Arron Glenn is at Saints. Defilippo OC at Jags.. While his former DB coach, Jeff Hafley will now become the HC at Boston College..

Had to give it a rest after Pettine...Need-less to say, I thought the list Out* of Business would be Longer. Some demoted to smaller team coaching roles.Or maybe, it's a who ya know in that business that matters?.If ya need any coaches names? I got those too.. and BTW-- fuc* Ray Farmer    

@gorka said:

If anyone hasn't learned this by now ...We are fans of the most ridiculed, laughed at, embarrassing franchise in the history of pro sports bar none. How the fuck does that feel.

Hard to argue, but I will:

I think these franchises warrant ridicule, but don't get it because it's NOT Cleveland.....Sacramento Kings (KC-Omaha Kings, Cincinnati Royals), San Diego Padres, and the Detroit Lions. The Arizona Cardinals have had moderate success in the last 10 years only, with a Super Bowl appearance and one of the greatest of all time in Larry Fitzgerald (and Kurt Warner for a brief time), otherwise they'd be worse. 

The Browns are akin to the Toronto Maple Leafs- both franchises have a huge fan base, and a history of(ancient) success. 

It effing bites for sure. It's hard to be so lousy for so long in a salary cap era. 

The main question was why is he #22 going into the last game?  Who is more to blame the OL or HC? Can he rebound in 2020 to his 2018 numbers or better?

This year brought:

Projected playoff /Super Bowl contenders resorted to being the same old Browns.

Myles Garretts helmet swinging episode resulting in an indefinite suspension.

Reports of OBJ and Landry saying "come get me". Whether true or not doesn't matter.

Kitchens "Pittsburgh Started It" shirt.

After this season especially.

.....that we've had two owners and neither one was any good at hiring people to handle the organization / team.