@typicalbrowns50 said:

The new IT isn’t bad. The sequel to the remake is mediocre. I think the guy they had play Pennywise was a good choice and a strength of the film

The Tim Curry miniseries doesn't exactly hold up. (Tim Curry is good though) Comes off hokey. 

The first It movie (2017) was great.

The second It movie (2019) was decent. I don't blame the director or screenwriters for it not equaling the 2017 first part, the truth of the matter is while the book It was a really entertaining book, the ending is kind of 'meh'... the new movie couldn't fix that. 

@stillmotion said:

Too much mediocre CGI, weak storyline, and even weaker characters. The characters in the first movie were amazing.

The acting, especially by the adults, was atrocious in the TV miniseries. 

@mudfly said:

Right....we talk about the need to find gems in the lower rounds and develop them into players.....yet, seem to dump them as soon as or before they reach that goal of being difference makers.....

Then you look at our depth at LB, right now, which is non existent.......and wonder where we land w/o Schob & Kirksey.

They can sign 2 FA backers and still end up with less depth than a year ago.

I know we cant pay too much to keep them, but feel more effort should have been made to retain these players that we drafted and then developed......

Schobert may not be a run stopping-hole plugging beast......but he is a solid tackler and great coverage guy......and it is a passing league....I look forward to us overpaying a pittbull to plug those holes, only to watch us get picked apart over the middle and in the short passing game......

hey mud...hope you are doing well....my take on our lbs are like those att commercials....just ok is not ok......poor kirksey...too many injuries...he probably won't be in the nfl too much longer...i would not want him...he's a walking liability...shob...ehhh....i like that wilson kid...seems quick...made some nice plays...i also saw him get the shit knocked out of him though plenty of times...what is his size?....might have to put on some weight....i think he's going to  be a good player...anyway...man we are so far from being an ok team...and just ok is not ok....long road ahead...

@dutch-oven said:

No, no, no, no, and no.

Too much mediocre CGI, weak storyline, and even weaker characters. The characters in the first movie were amazing.

@flugel said:

Maybe it's a good thing he played through the bad hammy in 2018 so people only remember they year he missed too many tackles. 

In fact, he didn't play his best football until after Gregg Williams moved him inside. 

For me it's the lack of negative yardage tackles... of "tone-setting" hits. Those are what set the top ILBs apart from the "good ones".

Joe was lost outside in Horton's 3-4. Much due to defensive design which put him in read-react mode, but also due to the weight he was carrying to set the edge. Trimmed down in Williams' 4-3 base he played much faster. Add Williams' aggressive approach and our Joe was born.

@stillmotion said:

The new "IT" was awful compared to the original.

No, no, no, no, and no.

@lbc-mike said:

It's been a while mud.

Indeed it has.....?

@flugel said:

  The part I hate about it most is this franchise developed him to the point he is playing his best football meeting/exceeding the expectation; and now another team will benefit from that while Cleveland is still in search of continuity in the LBer Corps (now in need of 3 new starters). Maybe we'll find a bargain FA like Tampa did last year when they signed OLB Shaq Barrett (previously a backup in Denver) only to get 19.5 sacks from the guy.  Sounds like the only thing wrong with the guy was Von Miller was the guy ahead of him on depth chart. We shall see...

Right....we talk about the need to find gems in the lower rounds and develop them into players.....yet, seem to dump them as soon as or before they reach that goal of being difference makers.....

Then you look at our depth at LB, right now, which is non existent.......and wonder where we land w/o Schob & Kirksey.

They can sign 2 FA backers and still end up with less depth than a year ago.

I know we cant pay too much to keep them, but feel more effort should have been made to retain these players that we drafted and then developed......

Schobert may not be a run stopping-hole plugging beast......but he is a solid tackler and great coverage guy......and it is a passing league....I look forward to us overpaying a pittbull to plug those holes, only to watch us get picked apart over the middle and in the short passing game......

@nero said:

One thought that goes through my mind just to stay optimistic is that they want him to check the market, then come back and match the best bidder. I just hope so. 

Kind of good news on your point here. The NFL Channel listed the top 10 FAs and he isn't one of them.

Maybe it's a good thing he played through the bad hammy in 2018 so people only remember they year he missed too many tackles.  Having said that, he played in a Pro Bowl in 2017 with 144 combined tackles - while some people think his best season was in 2019 with 133 combined tackles, 4 INTs and 2 forced fumbles.  With this guy people are going to see what they want to see.  My shattered rose colored glasses still see a walk-on at Wisconsin that was eventually developed into the Big 10 Defensive Player of the Year.    Wisconsin was rewarded for their patience in developing the lad.

When he arrived in Cleveland as an OLB, he didn't emerge immediately.  In fact, he didn't play his best football until after Gregg Williams moved him inside.  The irony of it all is Williams opted to train a rookie Safety (Peppers) by lining him up in Toronto, which means the MLB already responsible for both inside hook zones in pass coverage now has those extended far deeper than reasonable.  Still did a pretty good job in coverage considering.  Then, our last DC only used 2 LBers the majority of the time.

Since it's FA - we're just going to have to decide who is worth overpaying.  The part I hate about it most is this franchise developed him to the point he is playing his best football meeting/exceeding the expectation; and now another team will benefit from that while Cleveland is still in search of continuity in the LBer Corps (now in need of 3 new starters). Maybe we'll find a bargain FA like Tampa did last year when they signed OLB Shaq Barrett (previously a backup in Denver) only to get 19.5 sacks from the guy.  Sounds like the only thing wrong with the guy was Von Miller was the guy ahead of him on depth chart. We shall see...

@flugel said:

Are you sure?

When?

@the-gipper said:

I don't know.....

Are you sure?

@stillmotion said:

He's a leader, he loves Cleveland, he works hard, wants to be here, makes players like Mack Wilson better and pushes them, and can't be replaced in the draft.

The "It" factor is that he's a probowler when he's healthy and good.

I'm all for analytics, but we aren't winning any games with no safeties or linebackers next year.

I'm just hoping we don't continue to not resign veteran players and not replace them, or replace them with practice squad level players.

I get the intangibles argument... but that was not what I was asking.

In the contextof someone (you) saying, "He is worth it," the "it" is how much...

So how much are you willing to pay Joe?

@stillmotion said:

He's a leader, he loves Cleveland, he works hard, wants to be here, makes players like Mack Wilson better and pushes them, and can't be replaced in the draft.

The "It" factor is that he's a probowler when he's healthy and good.

I'm all for analytics, but we aren't winning any games with no safeties or linebackers next year.

I'm just hoping we don't continue to not resign veteran players and not replace them, or replace them with practice squad level players.

Fair statement, as, with NFL defenders, you can't really just boil it down to this:

@tour2ma said:

Again I have to ask a poster... What is "it"?

He's a leader, he loves Cleveland, he works hard, wants to be here, makes players like Mack Wilson better and pushes them, and can't be replaced in the draft.

The "It" factor is that he's a probowler when he's healthy and good.

I'm all for analytics, but we aren't winning any games with no safeties or linebackers next year.

I'm just hoping we don't continue to not resign veteran players and not replace them, or replace them with practice squad level players.

@ibleedbrown said:

A book. They made a movie about too. It’s about a creepy clown.

The new "IT" was awful compared to the original.

@nero said:

I'll just say that Schobert is better than the rest of the LBs we have at the moment and we don't have an amazing group. 

I guess the art of the backhanded compliment is universal...

He has all the traits I want in a defensive leader though he's not an explosive player and neither a difference maker. Anyway, he has made a difference being a key player in our defense in some games with INTs, fumble recoveries etc. 

One thought that goes through my mind just to stay optimistic is that they want him to check the market, then come back and match the best bidder. I just hope so. 

I wish we could keep him.  Especially because if we lose him then we'll need to play a safety more often on passing downs.....and we're thin in that area too.

When a team has plenty of holes to fill, it sucks when you have to let guys walk and thus create more holes.

@icecube said:

Strawman singing in the dead of night...........

You must have watched The Voice last night. That guy was really good. Sang it better than Paul did.

@flugel said:

Dorsey was the leadership.  This team was the sum of his decisions.  When you say no chance you mean the poor guy didn't inherit any reasonable draft volumes inclusive of a #1 overall pick or any money to spend.  Yeah, that poor guy never had 1 chance.  And when 2 of his ideas for LT end up in jail/prison - we're gonna still need a LT.  And, like you say if a guy can play in a Pro Bowl and lead the league in tackles - you have to get rid of that productivity if his name isn't Ray Lewis.  3 openings at LBer are better than 2 openings especially if you're worried about overpaying guys via FA.  It feels like we have more openings going into 2020 than we had going into 2019. 

Zombo had the best take on how we could have re-signed/extended Schobert for way less cake than the open market of FA.  He even pointed out the guy isn't the greatest of all time while he expressed disappointment we've thrown away time wasted in developing the guy for another team to get him at his best football.  

So where are we?  You've gone from being Dorsey's biggest critic throughout 2019 to being his biggest fan in this thread.  Good for you!

Strawman singing in the dead of night...........

@flugel said:

? Who's kidding who?  You had 1 public panic attack after another about Dorsey but now you're his biggest fan today. 

Colin Cowherd would be so proud... 

Strawman singing in the dead of night....

@icecube said:

Nice strawman argument. Very impressive. I accurately predicted their erroneous moves last season. Then I accurately asserted it wasn't all on Dorsey - Mr. Jimmy is a meddling owner. 

? Who's kidding who?  You had 1 public panic attack after another about Dorsey but now you're his biggest fan today. 

Colin Cowherd would be so proud...