Not that you would know bad things, you wouldn't admit any of them for eight years of your obaMao commie.

A LOT of Real Americans LOVE the leadership that Pres Trump has shown.

you just bitch at posters on the forum, otherwise, you can't muster much of any kind of legit opinion about anything.

@gorka said:

Cal is right. Recall that those 2016 Trump campaign rallies were nothing like we've ever seen before. But if you weren't aware of that perhaps it was because CNN avoided coverage of those massive crowds at all costs.

Those people that filled the arenas were not there because of "two terrible candidates".  Millions of former Obama voters from the rust belt states did not vote for Trump because they thought he was the better of two evils, I assure you.

Anyone still touting that tired "both candidates were terrible" song and dance are simply in denial over the enthusiasm and excitement this guy generated.

I disagree. Both candidates were terrible. And it's looking like we're headed for that again. Though the Dem candidate will have different baggage this time. Trump will just have more examples of the same baggage.

Or maybe it's all a deep state conspiracy???? Maybe Clinton foundation uranium one Wuhan lab Coronavirus Benghazi? 

Wake up sheeple

@calfoxwc said:

Woody - "two terrible candidates" isn't why Pres Trump won - it was time for the political pendulum to swing back.

@tour2ma said:

It was and yes, it is...

Hope y'all keep underestimating, Joe as much as I did Trump... cost me a case of Christmas brew...

Also never ceases to amaze me how a man of the people like cal fails to understand the role of unions.

Cal is right. Recall that those 2016 Trump campaign rallies were nothing like we've ever seen before. But if you weren't aware of that perhaps it was because CNN avoided coverage of those massive crowds at all costs.

Those people that filled the arenas were not there because of "two terrible candidates".  Millions of former Obama voters from the rust belt states did not vote for Trump because they thought he was the better of two evils, I assure you.

Anyone still touting that tired "both candidates were terrible" song and dance are simply in denial over the enthusiasm and excitement this guy generated.

@diehardbrownsfan said:

Biden in a landslide.

Your wasted. Lol.

When he starts bringing industry back from china especially big pharma...its a lock.

@tour2ma said:

The Corporate America you appear to want to save from unions is far more dangerous to the individual than any union will ever be. If Corporations are people (and they are not), then by and large they are soulless folk.

True, but some corps are not soulless, they are just trying to stay in business. Greedy? some are. But some of the bigger unions are destructively corrupt. I'm not defending bad corps.

  I'm talking about bad, powerful corrupt unions. Unions drove prices up, corps did not. Unions became far too powerful, the union brass got RICH, and eventually, the unions were not needed - they had terrific wages, safe working conditions, justified job security, etc etc.

   But the union brass  didn't want to be not needed anymore - they picked battles that were not necessary, etc, and eventually went way leftwing socialist progressive democrat politically to continue to have a giant fight, albeit a fake one, to continue to focus members on a "struggle", instead of having members say - "well, why do we need a union anymore? why are we always paying union dues, and they back every democrat candidate no matter how corrupt etc" ???

I'm not talking about good unions - this is not about firefighters, etc.

***************************************************

The AFL–CIO engages in substantial political spending and activism, typically in support of Democrats and liberal or progressive policies. The AFL–CIO was formed in 1955 when the AFL and the CIO merged after a long estrangement. Membership in the union peaked in 1979, when the AFL–CIO had nearly twenty million members.

*************************************************

   That is the AFL-CIO, Their president? Richard Trumka.

*************************************************

"AFL-CIO's Trumka: 'Socialism would be a step up for me ...

https://pjmedia.com/blog/afl-cios-trumka-socialism-would-be-a-step-up-for-me

AFL-CIO's Trumka: 'Socialism would be a step up for me' Everyone else is focusing fire on this article because, in it, AFL-CIO poobah Richard Trumka claims that unions just might withhold funds ...

Trumka Doesn't Know the Difference Between a Socialist and ...

https://www.independentsentinel.com/trumka-doesnt...

Sep 12, 2015 · Trumka was behind other acts of violence and the record proves it. He has had a long cozy relationship with socialists and communists. In 1994, Trumka proudly accepted the Eugene Debs Award named after the five-time presidential candidate and labor organizer who founded the Socialist Party of America.

Union Head Richard Trumka Sees AFL-CIO as Socialist Vehicle

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/...

Jan 10, 2011 · Union Head Richard Trumka Sees AFL-CIO as Socialist Vehicle Though his manner of expression is reminiscent of Boston Mayor Thomas Menino's indefinite grammar, the stark meaning behind Trumka's...

@calfoxwc said:

You fail to understand that I'm saying that some unions forgot their role, and became corrupt, greedy to the end, and self-justifying antagonistic towards Corp America in general. The AFL-CIO is a prime example. The Teamsters, at least back in the day, are another.

Yes, I did. Yes they did. Yes, they were. We're a lot more aligned than you might expect on Unions thru history.

But you tend to talk like we are still is "back in the day."... and we are not.

The Corporate America you appear to want to save from unions is far more dangerous to the individual than any union will ever be. If Corporations are people (and they are not), then by and large they are soulless folk.

@tour2ma said:

It was and yes, it is...

Hope y'all keep underestimating, Joe as much as I did Trump... cost me a case of Christmas brew...

Also never ceases to amaze me how a man of the people like cal fails to understand the role of unions.

it wasn't, and no it isn't. I should bet everybody agin' Pres Trump winning again a six pack

of Barq's root beer. I'll be happy happy happy. lol

   You fail to understand that I'm saying that some unions forgot their role, and became corrupt, greedy to the end,

and self-justifying antagonistic towards Corp America in general. The AFL-CIO is a prime example. The Teamsters, at least back in the day, are another.

   Before you get all snidely whiplash, you should go read a book on the early coal miners plight. I explained that already.

Thunder In the Mountains: The West Virginia Mine War, 1920 ...

The rise and fall of US labor unions, and why they still ...

@westside-steve said:

For anyone who is considering voting against Trump and for the Democratic candidate do you think the Dems will actually scuttle the Biden nomination? Do you think it's wise? If I was a DNC advisor I might give that a 60/40 shot for success. A new candidate out of the blue would not have years of baggage and or the hint of dementia. Kind of like Obama.

So Michelle? She's not interested.

I'm not "considering", but I assumed a Bidden supporter qualifies... but seems the thread is over.

Maybe next time...

@calfoxwc said:

The real reasons why New Yorkers are fleeing the city

Everyone knows that followed Mitch taking away the State tax deduction.

@calfoxwc said:

Woody - "two terrible candidates" isn't why Pres Trump won - it was time for the political pendulum to swing back.

It was and yes, it is...

Hope y'all keep underestimating, Joe as much as I did Trump... cost me a case of Christmas brew...

Also never ceases to amaze me how a man of the people like cal fails to understand the role of unions.

... but hey... at least it wasn't cal that brought up the "illegal iraq war."

@westside-steve said:

I understand that. Don't forget though but most of akron's Tire building facilities actually went to right to work states and not necessarily to China or Mexico. Plus I wonder how much the regulations have to do with the difference in cost to build something here or below the southern border? As opposed to actual hourly pay?

WSS

Rubber was already gone when Joe Biden gave his vote to end most of the rest of manufacturing in this country. We gave away national security so some CEOs could get out of paying fringe benefits and salary. Too bad we didn’t bring back some medical equipment manufacturing..... especially after the biological attacks(anthrax) shortly after 9/11.  Remember Joe and company’s idea to keep us safe? Duct tape and plastic.  Too bad we didn’t have a proper response plan then.  Nor do we now.  Thanks past elected leadership.

@westside-steve said:

I understand that. Don't forget though but most of akron's Tire building facilities actually went to right to work states and not necessarily to China or Mexico. Plus I wonder how much the regulations have to do with the difference in cost to build something here or below the southern border? As opposed to actual hourly pay?

WSS

part of what happened is unions with too much power, too much desire to go overboard, just because they could.

In the early years of unions - it was an absolute desperate necessity. Fair, decent wages to live on, safe working conditions, fair labor practices... coal miners worked and died in dangerous conditions for pennies a day? Long hours, fired if the worker got sick for a while? etc etc.

    But in later years, unions workers had really nice wages. And very safe working conditions, treated well, job security.

But the unions kept getting more powerful, with more workers and more money from the required dues. In the later years, some unions were hell bent to demand raises for all that weren't fair, job security where a member could not be fired for anything... threats of a strike simply because they had pushed into arrogant and extreme greed levels. And some companies folded. Some moved plants away from the U.S.

   Sure the companies that were crap hated the unions. Tennessee Ernie Ford even did the old famous song, "Sixteen Tons", about the pitiful existence working for the coal mines.

  In the early days, I used to go on strike shifts with my Dad. Donuts, hamburgers, a bunch of really great guys with tremendous honor about themselves insisting a detrimental unfair change to their contract, not negotiating in good faith at all.

  In later years, younger union members, and union leaders - would threaten a strike about the time a lot of them wanted to go on vacation without using their vacation time later. "haha". The big union leaders sometimes became very famous. and corrupt with power and wealth. And even when things were going awesome for the workers - leaving no legit demands unfulfilled ....

unions kept coming up with hostile demands every so often. They had to justify their existence. Eventually, that started crashing plants' cost-effectiveness.

   I saw this happen over the years. In the later years of my career, I subcontracted for the company my Dad retired from.

My supervisor had been a staunch union guy for many years, until he saw the greed and the damage done. He told me a lot about it - admitted the union became a monster that destroyed the profit margins that started it's downfall.

@flyingfooldoug said:

Probably right but in Warren Ohio which saw 35,000 good paying jobs with good health care disappear in a few years, he’ll never be forgiven for his yes vote. FWIW, he voted for the illegal Iraq war too. Fuck him and his surrogate Timmy too

I understand that. Don't forget though but most of akron's Tire building facilities actually went to right to work states and not necessarily to China or Mexico. Plus I wonder how much the regulations have to do with the difference in cost to build something here or below the southern border? As opposed to actual hourly pay?

WSS

@westside-steve said:

I'm not sure that NAFTA will be a hot-button issue any more. I don't know if it's possible to bring back low income manufacturing jobs to the US anyway. At least free trade agreements to benefit the consumer even though it certainly doesn't make it easier to build things here.

WSS

Probably right but in Warren Ohio which saw 35,000 good paying jobs with good health care disappear in a few years, he’ll never be forgiven for his yes vote. FWIW, he voted for the illegal Iraq war too. Fuck him and his surrogate Timmy too

Not that Rogan isn't an asshole but...

WSS

@flyingfooldoug said:

Hi, I’m Joe Biden and I voted for NAFTA. 

I'm not sure that NAFTA will be a hot-button issue any more. I don't know if it's possible to bring back low income manufacturing jobs to the US anyway. At least free trade agreements to benefit the consumer even though it certainly doesn't make it easier to build things here.

WSS

@mld-woody said:

I don't think anyone is confident behind Joe. Just making the point that, in national polls against Trump, he's still doing fine.

and yes, right, any time there is any poll you don't like the answer will forever be "no that doesn't count because they said Trump would lose!"... 

Trump, of course, was an incredibly unique situation at the time. Things that polling places weren't ready for

When you have two terrible candidates going up against each other there is a lot of uncertainty. Though it is looking like we'll have two terrible candidates again

Woody - "two terrible candidates" isn't why Pres Trump won - it was time for the political pendulum to swing back.

Pres Trump came to the forefront because of that. It isn't that he is loved and admired and people think he's pretty.

He isn't.

What he is, is a man I didn't like earlier, who honestly said the things a lot of people believed about our government.

Activist judges on the supreme court, all over the place. America first. Our Constitution. and he's kept so many promises already.

Biden had eight years of being a no leader. he's a TERRIBLE candidate. Higgardly was completely corrupt and vicious  - a TERRIBLE candidate.

  ObaMao was a terrific candidate - until it was clear he reversed who he was after getting elected - going way far left.

Take George Washington - a terrific candidate - but most of his life he was not a man I would have admired at all. But there came a time later in his life, when he accrued great wisdom and strength - like Pres Trump. Not my cup of tea, I called him a circus barker earlier on.

   Pres Trump is a badly needed candidate. Ben Franklin was an ornery but brilliant cad in his early years. But later in life, he became a great man, as did George Washington.

   Pres Trump is not a great man - he's being a great president. Keeping his promises we need him to keep is part of the great job he has done. For all of his faults, he IS a leader.

Pres Trump is hardly a terrible candidate, Woody. He won the first election. Biden won't win this one.

@mld-woody said:

I don't think anyone is confident behind Joe. Just making the point that, in national polls against Trump, he's still doing fine.

and yes, right, any time there is any poll you don't like the answer will forever be "no that doesn't count because they said Trump would lose!"... 

Trump, of course, was an incredibly unique situation at the time. Things that polling places weren't ready for

When you have two terrible candidates going up against each other there is a lot of uncertainty. Though it is looking like we'll have two terrible candidates again

Fair enough. If you don't think the Democrats are disappointed in this clown then Rock on.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Yes we know Woody. So you think the Democrats are pretty confident behind Joe?

Two words: I'll give you a hint, the first one is Hillary.

WSS

I don't think anyone is confident behind Joe. Just making the point that, in national polls against Trump, he's still doing fine.

@calfoxwc said:

7 Reasons Why Hillary Clinton's Win Over Donald Trump Is a ...

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/thomas-jefferson...

Oct 28, 2016 · Done Deal Polls, early voting, money, ground game and more point to Hillary Clinton beating Donald Trump. By Robert Schlesinger Managing Editor for Opinion Oct. 28, 2016, at 1:15 p.m.

and yes, right, any time there is any poll you don't like the answer will forever be "no that doesn't count because they said Trump would lose!"... 

Trump, of course, was an incredibly unique situation at the time. Things that polling places weren't ready for

When you have two terrible candidates going up against each other there is a lot of uncertainty. Though it is looking like we'll have two terrible candidates again