@dutch-oven said:

ESPN just ran the 30 for 30 "Believeland" again, and the part where Shottenheimer and Byner both break down talking about the Fumble never fails to put a boulder sized lump in my throat. 

Byner actually had a great game except for that one oh shit moment.  Kind of just adds to the post 1964 Cleveland moments in sports history...... except for LeBron James.

@sdbacker80 said:

i still feel bad for Ernest Byner.  

ESPN just ran the 30 for 30 "Believeland" again, and the part where Shottenheimer and Byner both break down talking about the Fumble never fails to put a boulder sized lump in my throat. 

@sdbacker80 said:

I would have been beer’n it.  Unfortunately, that is first game that I remember really well.  
 

Webster missed his block too on that fumble if he just got in the way the fumble doesn’t happen.  That whole game was a collection of missed opportunities. I’m not sure Denver even earned that and they certainly played like they didn’t two weeks later.

i still feel bad for Ernest Byner.  

I remember a Denver WR catching about a 10-15 yard pass, and two Browns defenders collided, he went 80 yards for an easy TD.

Also, I think the Browns were driving early, and a pas bounced off of Webtster Slaughter and was picked off The first quarter was a nightmare. I get fired up even thinking about it.

@tour2ma said:

But what a near-storybook comeback...

Can still remember watching that game with my best friend from work, Jim, a Brecksville native and Akron Zip ChemE, who also relocated to Texas when Diamond Shamrock was a thing in NE Ohio.

Beered our way thru the dismal 1st-half... pigged out at the half... and settled in with lowered expectations, and more beer, for the 2nd-half. When lo and behold a TD drive... and hope.

Anyway we both rose to our feet when after handoff was made to Byner, the hole opened and only an arm-tackle stood between us and the game-tying TD. We knew in that instant we were going to ride our momentum to revenge...

... and then "it" happened.

Short of a couple knock-outs I've never been more stunned in my life.

I would have been beer’n it.  Unfortunately, that is first game that I remember really well.  
 

Webster missed his block too on that fumble if he just got in the way the fumble doesn’t happen.  That whole game was a collection of missed opportunities. I’m not sure Denver even earned that and they certainly played like they didn’t two weeks later.

i still feel bad for Ernest Byner.  

@sdbacker80 said:

The fumble game they were going downfield and opening it up.  They just made way too many mistakes to win that game and dug a hole too deep.

But what a near-storybook comeback...

Can still remember watching that game with my best friend from work, Jim, a Brecksville native and Akron Zip ChemE, who also relocated to Texas when Diamond Shamrock was a thing in NE Ohio.

Beered our way thru the dismal 1st-half... pigged out at the half... and settled in with lowered expectations, and more beer, for the 2nd-half. When lo and behold a TD drive... and hope.

Anyway we both rose to our feet when after handoff was made to Byner, the hole opened and only an arm-tackle stood between us and the game-tying TD. We knew in that instant we were going to ride our momentum to revenge...

... and then "it" happened.

Short of a couple knock-outs I've never been more stunned in my life.

@sdbacker80 said:

The fumble game they were going downfield and opening it up.  They just made way too many mistakes to win that game and dug a hole too deep.

Yea, I thought about the '87 game and how in the 2nd half they went up and down the field at will. But that '86 game, I think that is when Marty began his rep as a coach who goes way too conservative, especially in the playoffs. To be honest, the only reason the Browns were in that game was because Reeves went equally conservative up until "The Drive." Looking back, Denver ran the ball too much. They should have let Elway throw more on 1st downs. 

@sdbacker80 said:

86 Giants were proficient on offense.  Great balance and just tough as hell.  But the biggest issue  Plain and simple ...We would have had no answer for Lawrence Taylor.  I’d give us a much better shot with experience of the past SB and the matchup to beat the Redskins  

It was a season before, but the '85 Browns did beat the Giants in the Meadowlands.

There is a good chance the Browns would have lost both games, but I feel damn confident in saying they would have gave the Giants and Redskins a helluva better fight. The fact that neither team had an exceptionally athletic QB would have benefited a team that struggled with Elway. 

@bob806 said:

Bingo. That was Marty's problem, he played too close to the best in the playoffs. 

Looking back, if it wasn't for Gastineau's personal foul, the Browns would have lost to the Jets.

Despite all that, I still believe the Browns were better than the NY Giants. Jeff Hostetler had a career game vs Denver in that SB. 

The Skins? Remember, it was Doug Williams and not Rypien. You're correct that at that time, the NFC was blasting the AFC in SBs, but IMHO, all the Browns lacked was an above average pass rush. I can't buy the Browns getting blasted in 2 straight SBs.

86 Giants were proficient on offense.  Great balance and just tough as hell.  But the biggest issue  Plain and simple ...We would have had no answer for Lawrence Taylor.  I’d give us a much better shot with experience of the past SB and the matchup to beat the Redskins  

@icecube said:

Woa, woa, woa. I maybe could buy best in AFC, but best in NFL? Need I remind you that the '86 Giants and '87 Skins went on to completely obliterate the Broncos in the Super Bowls those years, and the Browns couldn't even beat the Broncos. Both the Giants and Skins those years would destroy ANY AFC teams at the time. The NFC East reigned supreme in those days. 

Also, in hindsight, do you think the Browns would have won those game against Broncos if Marty opened up the offense a little more? Looking back, they didn't give Bernie enough shots down the field. Too many 2-3 yard rushing plays. 

The fumble game they were going downfield and opening it up.  They just made way too many mistakes to win that game and dug a hole too deep.

@bob806 said:

Nope. 

F#@$ Tony Dungy and him resting his regulars. I'l never forgive him.

And they got what they deserved if I remember correctly they lost their next game to the Chargers.

We owe them though.  I’d love to be 13-2 headed to the last week and return the favor. 

@bob806 said:

Bingo. That was Marty's problem, he played too close to the best in the playoffs. 

Looking back, if it wasn't for Gastineau's personal foul, the Browns would have lost to the Jets.

Despite all that, I still believe the Browns were better than the NY Giants. Jeff Hostetler had a career game vs Denver in that SB. 

The Skins? Remember, it was Doug Williams and not Rypien. You're correct that at that time, the NFC was blasting the AFC in SBs, but IMHO, all the Browns lacked was an above average pass rush. I can't buy the Browns getting blasted in 2 straight SBs.

I think Hostetler was in SB vs. Bills. I remember Simms killing Broncos. Yea, and Williams crushed Broncos. Skins had 35 points in one quarter. 

@icecube said:

Also, in hindsight, do you think the Browns would have won those game against Broncos if Marty opened up the offense a little more? Looking back, they didn't give Bernie enough shots down the field. Too many 2-3 yard rushing plays. 

Bingo. That was Marty's problem, he played too close to the best in the playoffs. 

Looking back, if it wasn't for Gastineau's personal foul, the Browns would have lost to the Jets.

Despite all that, I still believe the Browns were better than the NY Giants. Jeff Hostetler had a career game vs Denver in that SB. 

The Skins? Remember, it was Doug Williams and not Rypien. You're correct that at that time, the NFC was blasting the AFC in SBs, but IMHO, all the Browns lacked was an above average pass rush. I can't buy the Browns getting blasted in 2 straight SBs.

@icecube said:

Woa, woa, woa. I maybe could buy best in AFC, but best in NFL? Need I remind you that the '86 Giants and '87 Skins went on to completely obliterate the Broncos in the Super Bowls those years, and the Browns couldn't even beat the Broncos. Both the Giants and Skins those years would destroy ANY AFC teams at the time. The NFC East reigned supreme in those days. 

Maybe.  I would have liked to have seen the Browns have a chance at them. 

Also, in hindsight, do you think the Browns would have won those game against Broncos if Marty opened up the offense a little more? Looking back, they didn't give Bernie enough shots down the field. Too many 2-3 yard rushing plays. 

@bob806 said:

Sure did. 

They really need to put cameras on the uprights. If they review all the other stuff, why not?

Browns were the best in the NFL that season, and the next one. Nothing to show for it but heartache.

Woa, woa, woa. I maybe could buy best in AFC, but best in NFL? Need I remind you that the '86 Giants and '87 Skins went on to completely obliterate the Broncos in the Super Bowls those years, and the Browns couldn't even beat the Broncos. Both the Giants and Skins those years would destroy ANY AFC teams at the time. The NFC East reigned supreme in those days. 

Also, in hindsight, do you think the Browns would have won those game against Broncos if Marty opened up the offense a little more? Looking back, they didn't give Bernie enough shots down the field. Too many 2-3 yard rushing plays. 

@bob806 said:

They really need to put cameras on the uprights. If they review all the other stuff, why not?

No need... can electronically extend the uprights with same tech used for tennis boundaries and baseball strike zones.

As for watching the Drive again? No thanks...

Ditto the Fumble...

Ditto Red Right 88...

Ditto a couple Game 7s...

@bob806 said:

KARLIS MISSED wide left. I was there....look closely at the ref under the goalpost. 

I hate that dam game.

I was there as well and Karlis missed! But what a high, then a silent stadium....so sad. The reason I will be a Cleveland Browns fan till I die!!!! Win lose or tie,till I die!!! 

GO BROWNS!!! ❣

@gumby73 said:

did you ever see the old espn 30 for 30 on that Karlis miss? They even showed a bogus graph lined chart to prove that it was made...

Opps! we did not want to show the ball with the lines as it passed left of the post directly over it ?... that's the bogus junk i refuse to watch.. it might be youtube-able?

Nope, didn't see it. And I don't want to break my tv?

@gumby73 said:

in 2007 the Browns went 10-6 with Romeo & still missed the playoffs....has this ever happened to any other team since 2007? 

It has happened more often than you think, all of the following teams missed playoffs with a 10-6 or better record since 2007:

Patriots 2008

Giants 2010

Buc  2010

Bears 2012

Cardinals 2013

Eagles 2014

Jets 2015

@bob806 said:

Nope. 

F#@$ Tony Dungy and him resting his regulars. I'l never forgive him.

did you ever see the old espn 30 for 30 on that Karlis miss? They even showed a bogus graph lined chart to prove that it was made...

Opps! we did not want to show the ball with the lines as it passed left of the post directly over it ?... that's the bogus junk i refuse to watch.. it might be youtube-able?

@gumby73 said:

in 2007 the Browns went 10-6 with Romeo & still missed the playoffs....has this ever happened to any other team since 2007? 

Nope. 

F#@$ Tony Dungy and him resting his regulars. I'l never forgive him.

@icecube said:

Since you said this, I looked, and it looked wide. 

Sure did. 

They really need to put cameras on the uprights. If they review all the other stuff, why not?

Browns were the best in the NFL that season, and the next one. Nothing to show for it but heartache.

@gumby73 said:

in 2007 the Browns went 10-6 with Romeo & still missed the playoffs....has this ever happened to any other team since 2007? 

interesting... https://profootballhof.com/news/fact-or-fiction-an-11-5-team-has-missed-the-playoffs/   and fu'k them Bronco's! ?

@icecube said:

It's happened before. Not sure on date. 

@atom said:

so do i and refuse to watch it

i had Browns 46 on the other day and they were gonna show the drive and fumble I was like oh hell no and turned it off 

Show the Double OT game against the Jets, and I'll watch.