@bjh2130 said:

Charles Woodson should at least be listed here if not the pick

Not a bad choice.  I think I would take Rod over Charles when it comes to the Woodson's....but yes, very close. 

@the-gipper said:

Big 10:  Rod Woodson Purdue   (other good ones: Herb Adderly MSU, Dick LeBeau OSU; Ty Law Mich.

Charles Woodson should at least be listed here if not the pick

@the-gipper said:

Are you saying you would put him on your  "Traditional Black College"  All Time Team ?    Floriday A&M product. 

I could give 2 man tits if Mr.Riley was orange.. said nothing of the sort but, A small school classic corner is more like it...

Until Tom Brady goes in..?   1951 Jack Chrstiansen DB Detroit Lions... is the only 6th round pick in the HOF..period!

per link.."Ken Riley is the only player ranking among the nfl top 5 in career* interceptions not* in the HOF with 65 picks"

Revis should get in? but the closest DB steals from small school venues, i could maybe see getting in also? Sea.-11th rd pick Dwayne Harper///5th rd. pick Rodney Harrison(is he not a candidate for hof or in?) ///and Mia. 7th rd. pick Jake Scott

@gumby73 said:

not here to high jack a tread.. but, most browns fans should remember playing this hard-nose Corner twice a season.. https://nfl.com/news/former-bengals-cb-ken-riley-who-had-65-ints-dies-at-72    RIP Kenny Riley ?... a 6th round pick that played his college football at QB... until Riley met up with former Browns coach Paul Brown...

Are you saying you would put him on your  "Traditional Black College"  All Time Team ?    Floriday A&M product. 

@the-gipper said:

Cornerback:

Big 10:  Rod Woodson Purdue   (other good ones: Herb Adderly MSU, Dick LeBeau OSU; Ty Law Mich.

Pac 12:  Mike Haynes  AZ  St.

SEC:  Champ BAiley  Georgia

ACC:  Deion Sanders  FSU

Big 12:  Aqib Talib  Kansas

not here to high jack a tread.. but, most browns fans should remember playing this hard-nose Corner twice a season.. https://nfl.com/news/former-bengals-cb-ken-riley-who-had-65-ints-dies-at-72    RIP Kenny Riley ?... a 6th round pick that played his college football at QB... until Riley met up with former Browns coach Paul Brown...

@the-gipper said:

I see that Lane served 4 years in the military  (Koreas)  which was the reason he never "graduated" from  his JC to a 4 year school. 

Oh yeah and Jerry Ball was another of Fry's great black players for SMU. A really special squatty body player like Alex Karras. Two of the greatest against the run ever IMO.

@texasag1969 said:

Dick "Night Train" Lane was one of the truly great defensive players who was born & raised in Austin, but only attended a Junior College. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Train_Lane

I had the displeasure of watching the first great black player for Hayden Fry, Jerry LeVias,  dismantle our defense and pull out a game in the list minute in 1967. 

Those two were the primary reason SMU had won the SWC Championship the year before.

I have always revered Fry for being a groundbreaker.

I see that Lane served 4 years in the military  (Koreas)  which was the reason he never "graduated" from  his JC to a 4 year school. 

@the-gipper said:

One of the issues from back in the day for both the SEC and the SWC.....was:  segregation.    Some of the greatest players that came out of the south didn't play at the "big schools"   because they were black.

Places like Grambling got some of the players that would eventually become great pros.    Joe Greene had to go to North Texas St.  (don't you think that either Texas/TAMU/OK  could have used a guy like that.  Gene Upsha/Darrell Green went to Texas A&I. 

We could probably get a damned good team just taking guys that came from the TBCs (Traditional Black Colleges)  Doug Williams at QB,  Walter Payton,  maybe Jerry Rice (not sure if his school was a TBCs)  John Stallworth....a few just off the top of my head.  

Dick "Night Train" Lane was one of the truly great defensive players who was born & raised in Austin, but only attended a Junior College. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Train_Lane

I had the displeasure of watching the first great black player for Hayden Fry, Jerry LeVias,  dismantle our defense and pull out a game in the list minute in 1967. 

Those two were the primary reason SMU had won the SWC Championship the year before.

I have always revered Fry for being a groundbreaker.

@the-gipper said:

One of the issues from back in the day for both the SEC and the SWC.....was:  segregation.    Some of the greatest players that came out of the south didn't play at the "big schools"   because they were black.

Places like Grambling got some of the players that would eventually become great pros.    Joe Greene had to go to North Texas St.  (don't you think that either Texas/TAMU/OK  could have used a guy like that.  Gene Upsha/Darrell Green went to Texas A&I. 

We could probably get a damned good team just taking guys that came from the TBCs (Traditional Black Colleges)  Doug Williams at QB,  Walter Payton,  maybe Jerry Rice (not sure if his school was a TBCs)  John Stallworth....a few just off the top of my head.  

There was a really good documentary about this subject running on Showtime for a while, about how Bear Bryant probably scheduled USC around 1970 with the idea that the Trojans, an integrated team, would beat the shit out of Alabama... with the hopes that their fans would realize that the Crimson Tide needed black players to compete, and would allow their university to enter the 20th century. 

Places like Grambling got some of the players that would eventually become great pros.    Joe Greene had to go to North Texas St.  (don't you think that either Texas/TAMU/OK  could have used a guy like that.  Gene Upsha/Darrell Green went to Texas A&I. 

We could probably get a damned good team just taking guys that came from the TBCs (Traditional Black Colleges)  Doug Williams at QB,  Walter Payton,  maybe Jerry Rice (not sure if his school was a TBCs)  John Stallworth....a few just off the top of my head.  

Defense:

Let's get started with MLB (1): Yes Tommy Nobis played at Texas, But Mike Singletary of Baylor was the best both in college and the pros.

OLB (2): Von Miller Texas A&M and future HOF and Zach Thomas Texas Tech

DT (2): Bob Lilly TCU and Dan Hampton Arkansas

CB (2): Lester Hayes Texas A&M  Pat Thomas Texas A&M

Safety (2): Steve Atwater Arkansas and Bill Bradley Texas

Still mulling over DE: the risk of being called a homer I have to put Michael Bennett DE Texas A&M with Superbowl rings with 2 different team.

EDIT: At the risk of being called a homer I have to put Michael Bennett DE Texas A&M and Jacob Green Texas A&M

Special mention for NT Jerry Ball SMU

Offense tomorrow maybe-harder to identity the fatties in the OL.?

@the-gipper said:

On my "Homerism"   note.....not one OSU player taken.    And the only guy that played for the Browns was Clay Matthews.  

Can anyone name an OLB that came out of the Pac 12  that was better than Clay? 

I can find one guy who is arguable:   Lance Briggs  OLB from Arizona. But, overall I think I will stick with Clay. 

@the-gipper said:

Heard something about this on the radio today.   Thought I would put it to the test:  Who is the best player at each position to come out of each Power 5 Conference (as currently constituted).    Here is my list.   Let us know if you have alternative thoughts:

Quarterbacks:

Big Ten:  Tom Brady, Michigan

Pac 12:  John Elway Stanford

SEC:  Peyton Manning, Tennessee

ACC:  Dan Marino,  Pitt

Big 12:   Bobby Layne  Texas     (but...some day Mahomes may take this)

Running Backs:

Big Ten:   Eddie George  Ohio St.   (though...I may have to relent and name Franco Harris...convince me I am right)

Pac 12:  OJ Simpson  USC

SEC:  Emmitt Smith  Florida

ACC:  Jim Brown  Syracuse

Big 12:  Barry Sanders  OK St.

Wide Receivers:

Big Ten: Paul Warfield Ohio St   (by a scoche over Cris Carter)

Pac 12: James Lofton  Stanford

SEC:  Lance Alworth  Arkansas    (Julio Jones though may take over before career ends)

ACC:  Larry Fitzgerald  Pitt

Big 12:  Tommy McDonald  OK

Tight Ends

Big Ten  Charlie Sanders   Minnesota

Pac 12: Tony Gonzales  Cal

SEC:   Ozzie Newsome  Alabama

ACC:   Could not decide between Mike Ditka Pitt and John Mackey Syracuse

Big 12:  Keith Jackson  OK

Offensive Tackle: 

Big Ten:  Orlando Pace  Ohio St. 

Pac 12: Anthony Munoz  USC

SEC: Lomas Brown  Florida

ACC:  Walter Jones  FSU

Big 12:  Mike McCormack  Kansas

OCs/OGs

Big Ten:   Mike Webster  Wisconsin

Pac 12:  Bruce Matthews  USC

SEC:  John Hannah  Alabama

Big 12:  Russell Okung  Oklahoma

Defense later. 

I might put Megatron over Fitz

@the-gipper said:

Here is the defense:

Defensive  Ends:

Big Ten:  Carl Eller,  Univ. of Minnesota

Pac-12:  Terrelll Suggs   Arizona St.

SEC:  Reggie White  Tennessee

ACC:  Bruce Smith   Va. Tech

Big 12:  LeRoy Selmon, Oklahoma

Defensive Tackles:

Big Ten: Randy White,  Maryland

Pac 12:  Curly Culp  AZ St.

SEC:  Dan Hampton  Arkansas

ACC:  Warren Sapp  Miami Fla

Big 12:   Bob Lilley  TCU

Outside Linebacker

Big Ten:  Trying to choose between  Andre Tippett (Iowa), Bobby Bell (Minn.) and Jack Ham  (Penn St.

Pac 12:  Clay Matthews II   (our Clay Matthews) USC

SEC:  Derrick Thomas  Alabama

ACC:  Lawrence Taylor  NC

Big 12:  Zack Thomas Texas Tech

Middle Linebacker:

Big Ten:  Dick Butkus Illinois  (over fellow Ill. grad Ray Nitschke)

Pac 12: Junior Seau   USC

SEC:  Larry Grantham  (Ole Miss)......the SEC really has NOT produced great MLBs...I had to dig hard to find him.

ACC:  Ray Lewis  Miami Fla

Big 12:  Mike Singletary Baylor

Cornerback:

Big 10:  Rod Woodson Purdue   (other good ones: Herb Adderly MSU, Dick LeBeau OSU; Ty Law Mich.

Pac 12:  Mike Haynes  AZ  St.

SEC:  Champ BAiley  Georgia

ACC:  Deion Sanders  FSU

Big 12:  Aqib Talib  Kansas

Safety:

Big Ten:   Paul Krause  Iowa

Pac 12:  Ronnie Lott  USC

SEC:  Yale Lary  Tex A&M

ACC:  Ed Reed  Miami

Big 12:  Bobby Dillon  Texas

Again, if you think I missed someone (highly possible)  or if you think there could be someone better...let us know. 

On my "Homerism"   note.....not one OSU player taken.    And the only guy that played for the Browns was Clay Matthews.  

Can anyone name an OLB that came out of the Pac 12  that was better than Clay? 

I can find one guy who is arguable:   Lance Briggs  OLB from Arizona. But, overall I think I will stick with Clay. 

@ballpeen said:

I might put Megatron over Fitz

I debated those two in my mind....plus a couple of others from current ACC schools.  Like Michael Irvin, Andre Johnson and others.  As a whole I think the current ACC lineup has produced the best WRs.   It was probably Fitzgerald's longevity that had me put him on top. I could roll with either. 

@gumby73 said:

the Chiefs were 2-14 before hiring Dorsey. Andy Reid was already in house and JD & Reid decided trading for QB Alex Smith was better than drafting one.. Fisher may have come from a draft class of nfl average Joe's? #1 pick Eric Fisher even admits his early struggles in this link..  https://si.com/nfl/chiefs/news/eric-fisher-battled-test-super-bowl   so let's not settle on thinking Jedrick Wills or Andrew Thomas will have it any easier.. It's not on them either, that training camps can't even open. Big-Trust in Bill Callahan

KC adding Mitchell Schwartz & upgrading the interior OL finished KC's land of QB toys.. I'd even say, Cam Erving got better OL coaching just to get to average. Than still got KC fired at SB ending not matching up to what's coming up behind him.. it's what good teams do...and Good Luck Dallas. Erving will be there to get Dak back up... 

but Sure... I'd put Joe Staley ahead of Eric Fisher.         either Joe Thomas level? NopE !! 

Well...the point there was just to say which OT was the best to come out of the MAC....not to compare them to players that came out of the Big Boys.  Staley was pretty good, but sure, not up to like  Pace/JT/Jim Parker/Munoz etc. level. 

Though,  I will say that I was unimpressed with the OTs that have come out of the SEC as when I was searching I thought it would be a piece of cake to find great OTs from that conference....but it was not.   The best I could find was Lomas Brown....whom I highly disrespect...because he came to the Browns and just tanked and all he wanted was a paycheck. Nevertheless he was still the best I could come up with.  I think Staley is at least on a par with him.  (OGs/OCs were different....a number of great ones from SEC) 

@the-gipper said:

Heard something about this on the radio today.   Thought I would put it to the test:  Who is the best player at each position to come out of each Power 5 Conference (as currently constituted).    Here is my list.   Let us know if you have alternative thoughts:

Quarterbacks:

Big Ten:  Tom Brady, Michigan

Pac 12:  John Elway Stanford

SEC:  Peyton Manning, Tennessee

ACC:  Dan Marino,  Pitt

Big 12:   Bobby Layne  Texas     (but...some day Mahomes may take this)

Running Backs:

Big Ten:   Eddie George  Ohio St.   (though...I may have to relent and name Franco Harris...convince me I am right)

Pac 12:  OJ Simpson  USC

SEC:  Emmitt Smith  Florida

ACC:  Jim Brown  Syracuse

Big 12:  Barry Sanders  OK St.

Wide Receivers:

Big Ten: Paul Warfield Ohio St   (by a scoche over Cris Carter)

Pac 12: James Lofton  Stanford

SEC:  Lance Alworth  Arkansas    (Julio Jones though may take over before career ends)

ACC:  Larry Fitzgerald  Pitt

Big 12:  Tommy McDonald  OK

Tight Ends

Big Ten  Charlie Sanders   Minnesota

Pac 12: Tony Gonzales  Cal

SEC:   Ozzie Newsome  Alabama

ACC:   Could not decide between Mike Ditka Pitt and John Mackey Syracuse

Big 12:  Keith Jackson  OK

Offensive Tackle: 

Big Ten:  Orlando Pace  Ohio St. 

Pac 12: Anthony Munoz  USC

SEC: Lomas Brown  Florida

ACC:  Walter Jones  FSU

Big 12:  Mike McCormack  Kansas

OCs/OGs

Big Ten:   Mike Webster  Wisconsin

Pac 12:  Bruce Matthews  USC

SEC:  John Hannah  Alabama

Big 12:  Russell Okung  Oklahoma

Defense later. 

I might put Megatron over Fitz

@the-gipper said:

I know Eric Fisher was the #1 overall pick....but hasn't he been kind of a bust?  Staley was quite good. 

the Chiefs were 2-14 before hiring Dorsey. Andy Reid was already in house and JD & Reid decided trading for QB Alex Smith was better than drafting one.. Fisher may have come from a draft class of nfl average Joe's? #1 pick Eric Fisher even admits his early struggles in this link..  https://si.com/nfl/chiefs/news/eric-fisher-battled-test-super-bowl   so let's not settle on thinking Jedrick Wills or Andrew Thomas will have it any easier.. It's not on them either, that training camps can't even open. Big-Trust in Bill Callahan

KC adding Mitchell Schwartz & upgrading the interior OL finished KC's land of QB toys.. I'd even say, Cam Erving got better OL coaching just to get to average. Than still got KC fired at SB ending not matching up to what's coming up behind him.. it's what good teams do...and Good Luck Dallas. Erving will be there to get Dak back up... 

but Sure... I'd put Joe Staley ahead of Eric Fisher.         either Joe Thomas level? NopE !! 

@the-gipper said:

OK, you got the RBs....now give us your SW conf. best QB, WR/TE/OT/OG-C/DT/DE/MLB/OLB/S/CB.

Tommy Nobis?   Was Baylor in the SWC?  

Yes Baylor was SWC. I'll work on the rest tomorrow.

@gumby73 said:

Good list Gip.... I could only find these MAC men^^ that might raise a small position debate...  

I know Eric Fisher was the #1 overall pick....but hasn't he been kind of a bust?  Staley was quite good. 

I would not put Harrison over Mack...even ignoring Harrison's thuggery.

Not sure about Lang and Ward...not familiar with them. 

@the-gipper said:

OT:  Joe Staley  Cent. Michigan .... OT Eric Fisher Cent. Mich.//// KC  (central does know how to recruit some good back-2-back Tackles)

OC/C:  Brandon Brooks  Miami Oh.   (currently active ) ... OG -TJ Lang Eastern Mich. ////GB 

Defense:

OLB:  Khalil Mack   Buffalo.....(on track for HOF?) ... OLB- James Harrison ? Kent ST.// 5 PB's & 2 SB rings//// (could be jailed, in the bumble-bee 3rd jersey by now)

Cornerback: Dwight Smith, Akron    (2 Super Bowl Ints) .... CB- Jimmy Ward N. Illinois// 49'ers  

Good list Gip.... I could only find these MAC men^^ that might raise a small position debate...  

@texasag1969 said:

It would be Dickerson vs Earl-two really great pros.

OK, you got the RBs....now give us your SW conf. best QB, WR/TE/OT/OG-C/DT/DE/MLB/OLB/S/CB.

Tommy Nobis?   Was Baylor in the SWC?  

@mld-woody said:

Larry Johnson is active?

Wait,   Wasn't he the one that was just traded from the Cards to  Houston in the Hopkins trade? 

Let's check....I guess I am thinking of the wrong guy.   David Johnson. 

What the hell....who can tell one Johnson from another....Larry, Lyndon, David, Andrew, 

Call a porn star...she can have a Johnson in each hand...and other places.

@the-gipper said:

More "Data" points in this regard:    Of the Top 12  NFL RBs that came out of the Big Ten...in terms of career production,  half of them have been from Ohio St.:

1. Franco  Penn St.

2. Eddie George  Ohio St.

3. Ronnie Harmon   Iowa  (especially good receiving back)

4. Robert Smith Ohio St.

5. Keith Byars  Ohio St.

6. Mike Pruitt  Purdue

7. Leveon Bell, Michigan St.....active

8. Otis Armstrong Purdue

9. John Brockington,  OSU

10. Pete Johnson  OSU

11. Larry Johnson  Penn St.....active

12. Ezekiel Elliott  Ohio State....active

If you were to go down to the Top 20....3 more Buckeyes would be on the list:   Ron Springs, Archie Griffin,  Jim Otis

But, note....the source I used only counted  players whose teams were in the Big Ten at the time they played for that team;   ergo, if we count all  RBs who ever played for current Big Ten teams even if they weren't in the Big Ten at the time,  you would probably also get the likes of these players:

Lydell Mitchell PSU

Curt Warner PSU

Ray Rice  Rutgers.

Larry Johnson is active?

@the-gipper said:

I get that last point....it is why I said to select them under the current conference alignment.  There has been so much shuffling of teams in and out of various conferences.  Randy White's  Maryland team did not play in the Big Ten.  See the above discussion about Franco.  Penn St. was not Big Ten at the time he played.     The one A&M guy I did pick, Yale Lary, certainly did not play in the SEC. 

Maybe YOU could do a "best of the Southwest Conference".   A great conference, now defunct.  I think there could have been some good choices for that:    Dickerson RB for SMU....etc.    You do that,  and I will do the MAC, my school conference.

It would be Dickerson vs Earl-two really great pros.