@the-gipper said:

What does this mean?

means? means ya need to see who's making true* personnel choices with Berry... maybe this will help? https://clevelandbrowns.com/team/front-office-roster/   whom here? thought we needed to bring in a 11th WR? or just a week 2 spy? ? 

@gumby73 said:

Ryan Grigson..the puppet of blending pro scouts vs college scout..Depo,,,, like sashi, could not draw up a trap block if he saw one ?..i see nut-----thing!

What does this mean?

@the-gipper said:

That seems fair enough.  

But then, what does a "respected talent evaluator" do then when he seems to have  disparate information at hand.   As noted:  Ryan's "traditional stats"  make him look like he  was playing outstandingly last year whereas his "advanced stats"  per the article, seem to say:  Not so fast my friend.....not so much with this guy."    

So, where does a GM come down then? 

Ryan Grigson..the puppet of blending pro scouts vs college scout..Depo,,,, like sashi, could not draw up a trap block if he saw one ?..i see nut-----thing!

@the-gipper said:

That seems fair enough.  

But then, what does a "respected talent evaluator" do then when he seems to have  disparate information at hand.   As noted:  Ryan's "traditional stats"  make him look like he  was playing outstandingly last year whereas his "advanced stats"  per the article, seem to say:  Not so fast my friend.....not so much with this guy."    

So, where does a GM come down then? 

I don't know.  Now you are asking questions of me I can't answer.  I suppose it boils down to part gut and part how much he trusts Depos information.  Depo and his staff are the ones who break things down in to 15 layers.  I think their information is most useful in the scouting evaluations.  You have 2 players you like, you don't know where to place them on the board.  Depos department might have that tidbit of info that tips it one way or the other.

@ballpeen said:

No, I think he will take in to account all them.  Obviously if the WR runs a 5.0 40, he isn't going to dig much past that.  What I am saying is Berry is a respected talent evaluator, and  isn't just some geek looking at spread sheets of stats.  It also includes old time scouting.  Watching players practice and play.  Watching tape.  Talking to the players, those around the player.  Talking to players and coaches is a form of analytics.  You are digging deeper than simply the tape.

Every "traditional" stat is still going to be examined as it always has.  It's just that today there is a lot more information to be broken down.

That seems fair enough.  

But then, what does a "respected talent evaluator" do then when he seems to have  disparate information at hand.   As noted:  Ryan's "traditional stats"  make him look like he  was playing outstandingly last year whereas his "advanced stats"  per the article, seem to say:  Not so fast my friend.....not so much with this guy."    

So, where does a GM come down then? 

@the-gipper said:

So you and unsympathetic are both saying that he will put more emphasis on the “” traditional statistics and not on the more advanced statistics 

No, I think he will take in to account all them.  Obviously if the WR runs a 5.0 40, he isn't going to dig much past that.  What I am saying is Berry is a respected talent evaluator, and  isn't just some geek looking at spread sheets of stats.  It also includes old time scouting.  Watching players practice and play.  Watching tape.  Talking to the players, those around the player.  Talking to players and coaches is a form of analytics.  You are digging deeper than simply the tape.

Every "traditional" stat is still going to be examined as it always has.  It's just that today there is a lot more information to be broken down.

@ballpeen said:

In your altered reality, and no, it isn't fair to say.

So you and unsympathetic are both saying that he will put more emphasis on the “” traditional statistics and not on the more advanced statistics 

@unsympathetic said:

I disagree with your framing..

Every team uses analytics - seriously, everyone on this forum needs to deal with it.  If you want to think of all 32 GM's as "geeks" - have at it, but analyzing a player's record based on the specific detailed context in which those numbers are achieved doesn't [and shouldn't] differentiate one team from another moving forward.

When you make a decision based on all the facts of a legal case, does that make you a "geek"? I certainly hope not.  I'd think it makes you.. a professional doing your job.  A weird/negative stigma should be attached to any decision that does NOT take into account all available details.

Hue Jackson showed us what happens when you do NOT think like a geek --- we get the signing of RG3 because "it felt like the Earth moved beneath my feet."

Cover up the player's name and position and look at his season.. any player who competently hits, rushes the passer and makes tackles in space but only successfully within 8 yards of the LOS and gets beat deep easily has transitioned to being a Jack LB // DB-LB hybrid // box safety.  And that's just not worth much..

I’m sure all/most details are taken into account including analytics.  I think we all get fired up in here because we think they aren’t. They could just as easily take out one factor in their analytics or go with the “feeling”.  I wonder sometimes what heck are we doing bringing a guy in and not considering others 

Your Legal reference has as a weird application to this as some details aren’t really relevant, some are inadmissible, some are prejudicial and any other objection to their admission may apply 

jets and browns each have 18, the most injuries this far. Lots of other teams have 12-15 guys on the list. So the browns have a bit more injuries than the average

In your altered reality, and no, it isn't fair to say.

Every team uses analytics - seriously, everyone on this forum needs to deal with it.  If you want to think of all 32 GM's as "geeks" - have at it, but analyzing a player's record based on the specific detailed context in which those numbers are achieved doesn't [and shouldn't] differentiate one team from another moving forward.

When you make a decision based on all the facts of a legal case, does that make you a "geek"? I certainly hope not.  I'd think it makes you.. a professional doing your job.  A weird/negative stigma should be attached to any decision that does NOT take into account all available details.

Hue Jackson showed us what happens when you do NOT think like a geek --- we get the signing of RG3 because "it felt like the Earth moved beneath my feet."

Cover up the player's name and position and look at his season.. any player who competently hits, rushes the passer and makes tackles in space but only successfully within 8 yards of the LOS and gets beat deep easily has transitioned to being a Jack LB // DB-LB hybrid // box safety.  And that's just not worth much..

@unsympathetic said:

Careful with that logan ryan promotion.. This article from the athletic shows that if Ryan is the answer, you really need to re-think your question.

Well....I guess it depends what you like:   Geek numbers or traditional numbers.  This article points out that in traditional numbers:  tackles, sacks, picks, forced fumbles, etc. (see above) ....he had a fine season;   but that in Geek numbers, maybe not so much. 

I will say this:  for a team  wanting/needing  DB help he would probably still be worth the risk even if half of the numbers do not look so hot.  Here are those "Geek" numbers referred to, from the article:

Some of the harsher Pro Football Focus figures for Ryan, who, to his credit, totaled the third-most coverage snaps in the league (623) last season:

• He surrendered the most receptions (80) of any cornerback in the NFL last season, a full 10 more than second-place Justin Coleman of Detroit.

• He surrendered the most receiving yards (940) — and the most yards after catch (426) — of any cornerback in the league.

• He surrendered six touchdown passes during the regular season, tied for eighth-most in the league among corners.

• In terms of strictly slot coverage, Ryan led the NFL in snaps with 448 but also surrendered the most receptions (68), receiving yards (758) and yards after the catch (356).

And let's recognize this reality:  Our GM is really a Geek number kind of guy, fair to say? 

@warriorsrpussies said:

I wonder if Myles can step up to be that vocal ,tough guy leader,

I don't see it.  I see Myles as the Chubb of the defense.  Work hard, play hard and be a good team mate.  That's good enough leadership for me.  Sometimes guys feel like they have to be something they're not and it becomes a distraction or a stress.  

@gumby73 said:

️   ?  Siri ....... Call Logan Ryan...yes, I'll hold....?

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/time-for-the-browns-to-make-a-move-on-free-agent-logan-ryan/     

This, or something. 

@the-gipper said:

Well...it doesn't matter what any of us think about any fucking matter really, but this forum is for the expression of our views on things football related.

️   ?  Siri ....... Call Logan Ryan...yes, I'll hold....?

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/time-for-the-browns-to-make-a-move-on-free-agent-logan-ryan/     

@ballpeen said:

It doesn't matter what solution you see for him.  It only matters what he thinks, and right now, he isn't thinking right.  I wouldn't sign him for anything.

Well...it doesn't matter what any of us think about any fucking matter really, but this forum is for the expression of our views on things football related.

@the-gipper said:

OK, for 8 seasons he was a model citizen.  Then something happened?   Seems to me that it may be 2 things:   Thomas realizing, after that injury, that his football life may have been coming close to reaching its mortality.  Secondly....along with that comes the fact that his earning potential is diminished, and he protests (in the form of howling at the moon), over that. 

I think the best he can do is to face reality:   He is older and he will NOT command the kind of money that he probably thinks he should;   and that if he wants to stick around, he should face he fact that he  is likely going to have to sign a heavily incentive laden contract.  If he is good as he thinks he is, he CAN get paid a fair amount.  If not, he won't. 

That is where I see the issue....and the solution, for him.

It doesn't matter what solution you see for him.  It only matters what he thinks, and right now, he isn't thinking right.  I wouldn't sign him for anything.

@the-gipper said:

The fuck....have you been paying attention?  Our starting  SS just basically went down for the season, and the backup was a street UDFA no one has ever heard of.   And how is it that Thomas, who was considered a great team leader in Seattle, all of a sudden a team cancer in Baltimore? 

JT Hassell | 49

SS | Florida Tech |  Cleveland Browns

Ht: 6000 / 6' 00" | Wt: 199 | Upd: 04/22/2020

When I made that statement, Delpit was still on the field. I'm all for signing Thomas now. He did flip off Pete Carrol while in Seattle so hew seems to have a anger management problem.

@gumby73 said:

are you still holding??   Da Turds ?... just paid 15M to a attorney just like yourself, called Cap..to get rid of a 10M dollar problem...Thomas won't see that kind of dollar.., And than might go pout the rest of the season ? firing his agent just like the rest?..OR just maybe? ? Richard Sherman could make up some of the difference after s'he lands in San Fran?   what's a SB winning pot worth? between a few good old friends? Fans just wait for the drama of who's buying this talented guys BS next ?

I know that Thomas won't see that kind of money....that is what I said.  He has to take whatever deal he can get.

@the-gipper said:

OK, for 8 seasons he was a model citizen.  Then something happened?   Seems to me that it may be 2 things:   Thomas realizing, after that injury, that his football life may have been coming close to reaching its mortality.  Secondly....along with that comes the fact that his earning potential is diminished, and he protests (in the form of howling at the moon), over that. 

I think the best he can do is to face reality:   He is older and he will NOT command the kind of money that he probably thinks he should;   and that if he wants to stick around, he should face he fact that he  is likely going to have to sign a heavily incentive laden contract.  If he is good as he thinks he is, he CAN get paid a fair amount.  If not, he won't. 

That is where I see the issue....and the solution, for him.

It's not just that he's older, he's basically an asshole. And if he wants to get better, lose 15 lbs. He's carrying too much weight. Yes, safeties have to hit, but they have to cover too.