@john_0515 said:

Just food for thought I guess.

Quinn's drop position is just about textbook. He's a 3/4 high on the numbers, on the mid-line. Meaning if you have a ball that has stripes, the bottom stripe is just about even with the top of the numbers. And he carries the ball right in the middle.

You can't keep the ball low in the NFL. And, it's a bad habit at any level. Not only is it easier to swat from there, but the lower you hold the ball the more time you have to spend with one hand on the ball.

I don't think of it as a new thing. I've always called that the "traditional" ball position. There are varying opinions of course. Jeff Tedford trains his QB's to put the ball "on the shelf" carrying the ball up by their ear. I've never felt like it needed to be that exaggerated.

Although, you might notice that the running backs' ball position has been elevated in the last 10 years or so. The Tiki Barber style with the ball clutched high on the chest nearly vertical is a somewhat recent development, and a direct reaction to the strip-technique that became the flavor of the month in the late 90's... apparently it got too difficult to actually teach kids to tackle... but I digress. The traditional flat position under the arm is really not being taught anymore.

-jj

@jason-j said:

If you look at the 1st and 2nd shot, he's going to come straight up from there. And that left hand is protecting the ball until the last possible moment. I'd say, his mechanics have actually improved in the Browns shots. He's better protected. He's in a more athletic position, and he's got that back leg loaded.

That third shot... I don't know. It almost looks like a pump fake. He's sort of leaning to his left... more than would be normal, anyway. But when you look at his hips, you can see he's cleared them already. It's almost as if his target is well off to his left. Like he's going whip throw to a drag route or something. It's really hard to tell from a single frame. Then again, Quinn might do just about anything with pressure in his face. I'm sure he's got a Kent Tekulve slider in there somewhere. (that reference is just to check the ages and memories of various readers).

But if you look at the ND shots, he's a bit to narrow... almost straight up and down. In the second shot, he's got his front hand off the ball before he even moves into his throwing motion. That's a big No No in the NFL. And if you look at the first ND photo, you can see that he's about a third of the way through his motion and his weight is still on his back foot. If that ball goes 40 yards it's going to have re-entry burns coming back down.

Usually, when qb's make the transition to the NFL, it's about compacting their delivery. It looks like Quinn has done this. I'm just going to have to watch for the low-release thing.

-jj

JJ, does Quinn drop back with the ball low and by his waist? A few years back, QBs were doing this, and I remember specifically in NY, where the QB had 20+ fumbles in one season (I forget if it was Eli or Kerry Collins). It was attributed to carrying the ball low and by the waist, the problem was addressed by dropping back in a more "ready" position, and QB fumbles significantly declined after that.

Just food for thought I guess.

Aloysius said:

Larger clip

Nice Video!

Some guys may struggle during the week but when its time to put the pads on you need them to show up. I think Quinn will be fine.

We should remember that we do have a new offense for these guys to learn. And by looking at wonderlic scores Quinn should be able to pick it up faster.

It always amazes me how a smart team will come out on top over a more athletic team. Not to say you need athletes buit you need smart athletes.

@dan-in-florida said:

Ratliff is actually why I joined the forum.

He has a cannon for an arm, but I also think people made too much of him, expecting him to be the next Jason Garcia (UDFA). With Anderson and Quinn in front of him, he'll be lucky to get snaps in practice, let alone a regular season game.

@shepwrite said:

Here ya go:

Larger clip

@dan-in-florida said:

He threw some very nice deep balls at the beginning of practice yesterday.

@gips said:

joking aside i actually believe he improved him.

Stan i think you're spot on with the wind-up comment. after a few more years experience throwing that way the deliberateness will be long gone as it becomes more and more natural for him. the wind-up will nearly disappear and he'll be able to fire quickly from the shoulder, a marked improvement.

after that dialogue he had with Woodson about Kosar i wonder if he will try to use body language to help "look-off" and disguise his targets more. not just his head but throwing off-axis etc.

i'm sure he realizes he's probably classified as "a looker" in the Rod file, due to being a young Qb. maybe some sidearm practice on his days off? why not? i would.

@jason-j said:

-jj

LMFAO!!!!!!

@drunkandstoopid said:

...Starring Harry Hamlin as Perseus... and Brady Quinn as The Kraken.

-jj

@jason-j said:

If you look at the 1st and 2nd shot, he's going to come straight up from there. And that left hand is protecting the ball until the last possible moment. I'd say, his mechanics have actually improved in the Browns shots. He's better protected. He's in a more athletic position, and he's got that back leg loaded.

That third shot... I don't know. It almost looks like a pump fake. He's sort of leaning to his left... more than would be normal, anyway. But when you look at his hips, you can see he's cleared them already. It's almost as if his target is well off to his left. Like he's going whip throw to a drag route or something. It's really hard to tell from a single frame. Then again, Quinn might do just about anything with pressure in his face. I'm sure he's got a Kent Tekulve slider in there somewhere. (that reference is just to check the ages and memories of various readers).

But if you look at the ND shots, he's a bit to narrow... almost straight up and down. In the second shot, he's got his front hand off the ball before he even moves into his throwing motion. That's a big No No in the NFL. And if you look at the first ND photo, you can see that he's about a third of the way through his motion and his weight is still on his back foot. If that ball goes 40 yards it's going to have re-entry burns coming back down.

Usually, when qb's make the transition to the NFL, it's about compacting their delivery. It looks like Quinn has done this. I'm just going to have to watch for the low-release thing.

-jj

Thank you Jason. I remember Tekulve and his sidearm motion. He played for the Pirates back in the early 80's.

Fascinating pitcher to watch. That does bring back some memories.

@atenears said:

LOW RELEASE

Ironically, not every photo I found fit so nicely into the theory that his mechanics changed since he left Notre Dame, but here's a good example of him having a higher point of release from his college years:

HIGHER RELEASE

The lower holding of the ball and release is what I witnessed at Camp. Perhaps he feels he has to 'wind-up' and get more on his passes to keep up with DA's cannon and this results in him dipping lower and trying to bring it from deeper down.

It's like when you play golf with a big hittter and he throws your game off because you find yourself trying to hitter harder than you can handle.

Anyhow, I thought it was interesting and something to watch.

Those are great shots. But, I think the only thing we're really seeing here is Quinn being a little more deliberate keeping his front hand on the ball. He's following it all the way back into the throwing motion.

If you look at the 1st and 2nd shot, he's going to come straight up from there. And that left hand is protecting the ball until the last possible moment. I'd say, his mechanics have actually improved in the Browns shots. He's better protected. He's in a more athletic position, and he's got that back leg loaded.

That third shot... I don't know. It almost looks like a pump fake. He's sort of leaning to his left... more than would be normal, anyway. But when you look at his hips, you can see he's cleared them already. It's almost as if his target is well off to his left. Like he's going whip throw to a drag route or something. It's really hard to tell from a single frame. Then again, Quinn might do just about anything with pressure in his face. I'm sure he's got a Kent Tekulve slider in there somewhere. (that reference is just to check the ages and memories of various readers).

But if you look at the ND shots, he's a bit to narrow... almost straight up and down. In the second shot, he's got his front hand off the ball before he even moves into his throwing motion. That's a big No No in the NFL. And if you look at the first ND photo, you can see that he's about a third of the way through his motion and his weight is still on his back foot. If that ball goes 40 yards it's going to have re-entry burns coming back down.

Usually, when qb's make the transition to the NFL, it's about compacting their delivery. It looks like Quinn has done this. I'm just going to have to watch for the low-release thing.

-jj

@dawgpound3 said:

Here's a better pic.

I pulled a bunch of similar pictures off the net ... yes, you can find a lot of exceptions. However the funny thing about them though is when he is using proper mechanics, many times they are practice throws or for photo opts.

Here's a better pic.

@atenears said:

LOW RELEASE

Ironically, not every photo I found fit so nicely into the theory that his mechanics changed since he left Notre Dame, but here's a good example of him having a higher point of release from his college years:

HIGHER RELEASE

The lower holding of the ball and release is what I witnessed at Camp. Perhaps he feels he has to 'wind-up' and get more on his passes to keep up with DA's cannon and this results in him dipping lower and trying to bring it from deeper down.

It's like when you play golf with a big hittter and he throws your game off because you find yourself trying to hitter harder than you can handle.

Anyhow, I thought it was interesting and something to watch.

Your pictures show me nothing useful. The Notre Dame pics show Quinn at the point of release (above his ear). Your Browns pics show him early in the throwing motion- way before the point of release. Your point about flicking it from down low is probably right, but i don't see how these pics support that.

roach (Didn't Kosar "flick" it kind of sidearm?)

I have noticed in photos and video if you look at his hand, he has his middle and ring finger on the seams very close together. Most QB's that I've looked at, and myself just as a normal guy throwin the ball, have the index finger and middle finger above the seam towards the tip.

I don't know if this causes loss of velocity, but his grip is a bit different.

Pick up a football and check out your own grip to see how it naturally feels.

@dan-in-florida said:

I didn't see much of him. I have no real comment either way.

and

He's at that classic point old QB's talk about before the "light bulb" went off and the game finally slowed down for them. It's something most in sports go through at some point, but it's up to him to handle it.

I remember trying to win the varsity second base gig as a sophomore going against the senior incumbent. I tried to hard and rushed everything. I know I lost that job cuz of that.