@cmac12 said:

Go with the DA sucks rant all you want but I have seen nothing that would make me think that BQ is going to do any better. As a matter of fact the stats say that he will do basically the same. If BQ starts what should we expect? In this position DA got the Browns to 10 - 6 with the 30th ranked defense in the league. I would venture to say that the defense this year will be improved on 30th place ranking. The Browns have a easier schedule, better line and a offense that most have said is made for BQ. How do you really think he will perform? I doubt it will be any better than what DA would do.

And that is what bothers me the most. Jump on DA all you want as he has more of a sample size but I would be real real reluctant to jump on the BQ bandwagon.

Have they played a real game in this "competiton"?

Seeing as how DA has 23 NFL starts, been in the league for 4 years already, if he was better than BQ, shouldn't he have distance himself?

This is about the franchise needing to determine if BQ is the answer or they have to move forward with finding a franchise QB. DA has already shown he is not.

@vegasdogg said:

Actually, what occurs when that happens is that the U.S. Congress passes the Clean Water and Clean Air Acts.

And that IS what happened.

@inspecta said:

But it's good news he doesn't get "good vibes" from us. Very good news indeed.

Is that his professional analysis, "good vibes". Does he have a "vibe-o-meter" that he takes with him to different training camps?

Exactly, we saw the debacle of last season and from what I remember King writing before the season was we were SB bound or some shit, can anyone find that to compare to this article? I drank his piss colored koolaid, this guys predictions are absolute garbage! Maybe its good the vibe at the camp isn't easy cream puff, double roll, Romeo style. Maybe its good these guys aren't in nonchalant lazyboy land! We saw where it got us and anyone who watched the hard knocks shows and Wade Phillips Cowboys cream puff style preseason know what happened to them. Peter King is a douche bag, I take no stock in what he writes anymore.

i think the fans and city of cleveland would DEFINATELY do a better job as owners than you current owner.

When a city catches a river on fire, there are provisions in some constitution - somewhere - that demands they are banned from owning anything.

Go with the DA sucks rant all you want but I have seen nothing that would make me think that BQ is going to do any better. As a matter of fact the stats say that he will do basically the same. If BQ starts what should we expect? In this position DA got the Browns to 10 - 6 with the 30th ranked defense in the league. I would venture to say that the defense this year will be improved on 30th place ranking. The Browns have a easier schedule, better line and a offense that most have said is made for BQ. How do you really think he will perform? I doubt it will be any better than what DA would do.

And that is what bothers me the most. Jump on DA all you want as he has more of a sample size but I would be real real reluctant to jump on the BQ bandwagon.

@jadbf said:

I was thinking he was looking at where he just threw a screen pass or swing pass

@mr.-t said:

DA has always choked under pressure, nothing new DA is more than likely done here.

I feel so bad for DA here. I just want to cry. After all, I root for the BROWNS.

Nafreleets said:

Sorry man, you really don't understand what can and can't be done.

A city, or a large group of fans can't buy shares and purchase a NFL team.

The Packers are the only team who has that set-up, and that is the way it was when the team formed and was grandfathered in to the current rules of ownership.

You want to quit going to games, go for it, but quit being a nimrod by thinking many around here are going to boycott games. You sound foolish.

DA has always choked under pressure, nothing new DA is more than likely done here.

@dawgpound3 said:

It is what it is. Randy learned alot from his bungling the 2004-5 searches by letting a consultant firm do all the work.

@restinpeace said:

It was pretty clear that Phil Savage and Randy had some stark disagreements on the direction of how the Browns would be built. I still believe it was Randy who pushed Collins into that whole "collinsgate" thing to see and if he could pry Phil out after these disagreements became unbearable for Randy. However, the backlash from the fanbase forced Randy to pull back the knife and Collins was left to take the fall. Phil could have just left, but that would have damaged his reputation and needed to stay long enough to make it work so other jobs would open.

So the 2 went arm and arm for the next 2.5 years. Probably in the end, it was a mistake. Phil got mostly what he wanted though he was inconsistant as a GM and had a poor coach to deal with who was Randy's connection to his favorite model franchise. Phil also gave Randy, Quinn, when he directly asked for him in the 2007 draft, even though Savage was still interested in Frye/Anderson, especially the latter's potential.

By the 2008 season, things weren't going well again. The overachieving team of 2007 was having trouble reproducing that magic and looked very below average at times. Phil's penchent for every good move met with a bad move was seen in the Rogers/Williams trades, finally reached a boiling point for Lerner, as was Savage's love for Anderson, when his chosen "face of the franchise" was stuck in limbo.

Randy firing Savage was probably one of Randy's more enjoyable moments since owning the Browns. After that, the processes to find a new coach began. At the same time, Eric Mangini was fired from the Jets.

Randy's ears perked up quickly. Mangini was another direct member of his favorite model franchise and considered one of Belicheck's brightest assistants. Mangini himself, I think found a soulmate with Randy when it came to frachise building. They both were disgruntled how the previous years went. Both felt like they hadn't been able to do what they really wanted, which as it turns out, was a similiar philosophy on franchise building from the "Belicheck/Patriots" school of franchises. So, Mangini keeps the Crennel defense intact but switches from the Schott offense to the Deball offense that runs from the Patriots varient. Which Randy has always wanted.

This has been the smoothest training camp in a long while. Everybody is on the same page. But questions remain on effectiveness when it comes to winning.

Mangini may not be easy for Randy to let go of, hopefully things go well.

You are so full of crap.

It was pretty clear that Phil Savage and Randy had some stark disagreements on the direction of how the Browns would be built. I still believe it was Randy who pushed Collins into that whole "collinsgate" thing to see and if he could pry Phil out after these disagreements became unbearable for Randy. However, the backlash from the fanbase forced Randy to pull back the knife and Collins was left to take the fall. Phil could have just left, but that would have damaged his reputation and needed to stay long enough to make it work so other jobs would open.

So the 2 went arm and arm for the next 2.5 years. Probably in the end, it was a mistake. Phil got mostly what he wanted though he was inconsistant as a GM and had a poor coach to deal with who was Randy's connection to his favorite model franchise. Phil also gave Randy, Quinn, when he directly asked for him in the 2007 draft, even though Savage was still interested in Frye/Anderson, especially the latter's potential.

By the 2008 season, things weren't going well again. The overachieving team of 2007 was having trouble reproducing that magic and looked very below average at times. Phil's penchent for every good move met with a bad move was seen in the Rogers/Williams trades, finally reached a boiling point for Lerner, as was Savage's love for Anderson, when his chosen "face of the franchise" was stuck in limbo.

Randy firing Savage was probably one of Randy's more enjoyable moments since owning the Browns. After that, the processes to find a new coach began. At the same time, Eric Mangini was fired from the Jets.

Randy's ears perked up quickly. Mangini was another direct member of his favorite model franchise and considered one of Belicheck's brightest assistants. Mangini himself, I think found a soulmate with Randy when it came to frachise building. They both were disgruntled how the previous years went. Both felt like they hadn't been able to do what they really wanted, which as it turns out, was a similiar philosophy on franchise building from the "Belicheck/Patriots" school of franchises. So, Mangini keeps the Crennel defense intact but switches from the Schott offense to the Deball offense that runs from the Patriots varient. Which Randy has always wanted.

This has been the smoothest training camp in a long while. Everybody is on the same page. But questions remain on effectiveness when it comes to winning.

Mangini may not be easy for Randy to let go of, hopefully things go well.

@inspecta said:

So far....he has repeated some of those same mistakes, if Mangini and crew turn it around then he will have broken the 10 year skid.

But mainly my gripe was with the soccer team. Which is why I find this debate, perplexing, I think I've voiced my displeasure with that move ever since he made it. Why are you guys suddenly now running to his aid?

Oh that's right, we're in August, and everything is sunshine and puppy dogs.

Well, the old testimate is a fine book of fables, but that is neither here nor there.

He has. Of course they are the same mistakes of every owner in the NFL at some time or another, unless your name is Rooney.

So you want to rail the guy because you don't like soccer and he does? Sorry my man, I can't get on that train, and I'd rather watch paint dry than watch soccer.

@inspecta said:

And Riffer, isn't about time for you to slip back into character? I thought Lumbergh was supposed to be the snide asshole and you were the cool one. Looks like your mixing them up...

He may be dead, but it doesn't mean he wasn't the guy running the show for 6 years. The sins of the father are not the sins of the son.

@riffer-x said:

LOL. It is a Gillooly style rant, but missing Gillooly putting substance behind his disaproval.

@gips said:

I sure hope so.

Masters said:

You just blame Randy for losing the record advantage over Pittsburgh. First, it has been slowly dwindling. And most of it lost over the 6 years before Randy was the owner. You can really only hold him accountable for the last 4 years (1 of which included a winning season). Under his watch the Browns just played on more nationally televised games in one season than they ever have.

So what if he spent setting up the soccer team? He had already setup the new management team in CLE. They didn't work out. What would he have been doing? He's not a football expert.

His dad's credit card company, not Randy's (though it became his for a few years, and then he sold it off). You can pick any owner and find something bad about how they came into their money. Heck, NFL ownership and money making is shady all by its self. This is really taking a personal bias agaisnt the guy, and has nothing to do w/ his ability as an owner.

Of course that is all just my opinion.

Gillooly was somebodies hero, who would have known?

@inspecta said:

Well on Lerner's watch we went from having a record advantage over Pittburgh that we've held for like 50 years to giving that up to the Steelers.

Of course it's not all Lerners fault that we've lost so much, but he did hire the people who gave us losing seasons. the buck has to stop somewhere.

Your right it was only his first hire, but the buying of that soccer team really chapped my ass, and I guess a lot of you forget that right after he bought it the plain dealer ran a story about him spending a considerable amount of time over in England getting everything set up for that soccer team. That was time that could of been spent on the Browns, in any capacity.

That, and like I said, he got his wealth from screwing people over with his credit card company. Yeah you can say all owners are spoiled rich kids, but that's not always the case, you have owners like Ralph Wilson (who was just inducted to the hall of fame this weekend) who have been stand up guys.

anyway, like soldier said, it's just my opinion, and if we have a winning team again I'll go back to not giving a shit who owns the team.

I think it is because you are dissing him with little to no rational backing for that opinion.

You just blame Randy for losing the record advantage over Pittsburgh. First, it has been slowly dwindling. And most of it lost over the 6 years before Randy was the owner. You can really only hold him accountable for the last 4 years (1 of which included a winning season). Under his watch the Browns just played on more nationally televised games in one season than they ever have.

So what if he spent setting up the soccer team? He had already setup the new management team in CLE. They didn't work out. What would he have been doing? He's not a football expert.

His dad's credit card company, not Randy's (though it became his for a few years, and then he sold it off). You can pick any owner and find something bad about how they came into their money. Heck, NFL ownership and money making is shady all by its self. This is really taking a personal bias agaisnt the guy, and has nothing to do w/ his ability as an owner.

Of course that is all just my opinion.

@jadbf said:

And after checking the ones I didn't know or had questions about here are the confirmed owners of those teams:

McNair IS the owner of the Texans

Alex Spanos is still the owner of the Chargers....though for some reason I thought the died. (he has got to be like 90)

The Hunt family still owns the Chiefs. Clark Hunt is the Chairman.

Chip Rosenbloom and Lucy Rodriguez, children of Georgia Frontiere are the owners of the Ram, though they apparenty brought in a partner name Stan Kronake or something like that.

It is Steven Ross who is 95% owner of the Dolphins. Huizenga still maintains a 5% interest.

The Jets are owned by Woody Johnson

The Vikings are owned by Zygi Wilf.

As to the second part of the question, which one of these are "good owners", it is impossible to say.

There are the scumbags that have moved their team...but many of the worst of those are gone, i.e. Modell, Bob Irsay, Georgia....Bill Bidwill is all but a vegetable....as may be Al Davis??? Bud Adams is still around. (You know why Ralph Wilson gets in the HOF and Adams doesn't? Because Adams sold Houston down the river. He likely won't get in while he is alive....Modell will never get in, dead or alive).

You can't say William Ford is a good owner....if you go by winning as a measure. That team is a perennial loser.

Until last year the same could be said about the Cardinals. Thanks to young Mike Bidwill. Like the Irsays, I believe those two teams are in much more capable hands than when the new generation took over.

A hands on owner like Jerry Jones has in reality had no greater on field success than a hands off owner like Lerner.

@inspecta said:

Well on Lerner's watch we went from having a record advantage over Pittburgh that we've held for like 50 years to giving that up to the Steelers.

Of course it's not all Lerners fault that we've lost so much, but he did hire the people who gave us losing seasons. the buck has to stop somewhere.

Your right it was only his first hire, but the buying of that soccer team really chapped my ass, and I guess a lot of you forget that right after he bought it the plain dealer ran a story about him spending a considerable amount of time over in England getting everything set up for that soccer team. That was time that could of been spent on the Browns, in any capacity.

That, and like I said, he got his wealth from screwing people over with his credit card company. Yeah you can say all owners are spoiled rich kids, but that's not always the case, you have owners like Ralph Wilson (who was just inducted to the hall of fame this weekend) who have been stand up guys.

anyway, like soldier said, it's just my opinion, and if we have a winning team again I'll go back to not giving a shit who owns the team.

I am a bit ticked about Lerner. I rather have a hands-on owner like Jerry Jones than have Lerner.

@vegasdogg said:

He gave Savage pretty much all the dollars needed to sign FA's, no matter how smart we think that was on Savage's part. He gave Savage the tools to do what Savage said needed done.

Now we're saying he doesn't know WTF he is doing simply because he doesn't bunk in Berea? Unbelievable!

We had some bad management, but we went after guys who had won before - won it all.

Policy - had a history with SF

Davis - Jimmy Johnson's DC. Butch put Miami back on the map!

Savage - protege' of one of the best GM's in the league in Ozzie

Mangini - does it almost exactly like Parcells and BB.

The guy is trying to make it work, and at the same time keep the people of Cleveland involved.

Some people say he is too hands on and question whether he MADE the staff choose Quinn, and some think he is not here enough.

I think the guy is doing what he is supposed to do - sign the checks and hire the right people. Hasn't worked out the way he likes, but he is trying.

Exactly VegasDogg! What do you guys wanna be like the Indians and keep someone around just for continunity sake when you know it's not working.

So what if he doesn't live here at least he gets rid of people when it's not working. At least he's trying and you can't fault him for that.

@the-gipper said:

Damn fine job, I couldn't list 1/2 of them.