@tour2ma said:

OBJ was about as open on Baker's 1st pass as Peeps was on Baker's last.

tia... if you look at the all-22, I'm curious if the above two plays were the same...

Back with an answer...

As far as the plays being the same?  No.   

DPJ and Bryant were running a divide to the boundary.     When Odell got hurt it was a hitch-square combo with Hoop & Juice and ODB on the 9 by his lonesome.     But the real question is ball placement.   The throw to ODB on his injury was piss poor at best.   It wasn't an attempt at back-shoulder, it wasn't a deliberate underthrow.  It was short and inside, plain and simple. 

On the DPJ touchdown however - Can't tell.   Part of me thinks the backshoulder was intentional because when Baker starts his release, DPJ is even with the DB.  So it may be a case of not having that timing, chemistry and understanding of your own WR down as much as we'd like.             On the other hand, putting the ball back inside is questionable as hell because if that pass is at the back pylon, there was no way that safety would have affected the play either.   

@dutch-oven said:

Also tia, I read a tweet that said it appeared Baker had to move to his second read like twice all game.

If you do look at the All-22, I wonder if this is true. 

I went through most of the 1st quarter to when he started connecting on passes.    Cincy did.... not make it difficult.     To say the least.

Joking aside tho... the Mackey Award list is pretty damn impressive...

@dutch-oven said:

At killing people, Hernandez was very competent. 

At not getting caught..........well not so competent since he left his CCTV running.??

@tour2ma said:

Oops...

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/awards/mackey.html

At killing people, Hernandez was very competent. 

@unsympathetic said:

They don't give the Mackey Award to incompetent people...

Oops...

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/awards/mackey.html

The kid's a worker...

@tour2ma said:

OBJ was about as open on Baker's 1st pass as Peeps was on Baker's last.

tia... if you look at the all-22, I'm curious if the above two plays were the same...

@dutch-oven said:

Also tia, I read a tweet that said it appeared Baker had to move to his second read like twice all game.

If you do look at the All-22, I wonder if this is true. 

More on that tomorrow when it's available.

@tour2ma said:

OBJ was about as open on Baker's 1st pass as Peeps was on Baker's last.

tia... if you look at the all-22, I'm curious if the above two plays were the same...

Also tia, I read a tweet that said it appeared Baker had to move to his second read like twice all game.

If you do look at the All-22, I wonder if this is true. 

@runyon27 said:

I could have worded it better. My point was, the first throw in the last game he had OBJ 1 on 1 on the outside, but he wasn't really open. I think he was predetermined to throw there because it was OBJ rather than find another receiver who was more open so to speak.

OBJ was about as open on Baker's 1st pass as Peeps was on Baker's last.

tia... if you look at the all-22, I'm curious if the above two plays were the same...

@runyon27 said:

I could have worded it better. My point was, the first throw in the last game he had OBJ 1 on 1 on the outside, but he wasn't really open. I think he was predetermined to throw there because it was OBJ rather than find another receiver who was more open so to speak.

How much time do you think a QB has to find someone "open"...?     Open is based on coverage, not so much in terms of separation, but what you're reading vis a vis the concept being executed.  When a QB see's a certain coverage shell and personnel alignment, he's going to scratch off reads in his own head just based on that alone the majority of the time.  

@tour2ma said:

I truly do not understand this comment.

In the NFL single covered is as close to "open" as receivers get most plays.

I could have worded it better. My point was, the first throw in the last game he had OBJ 1 on 1 on the outside, but he wasn't really open. I think he was predetermined to throw there because it was OBJ rather than find another receiver who was more open so to speak.

@d-bone said:

So for us casual football I.Q fans, we can now surmise that the next time we play either Pittsburgh or Baltimore without OBJ, then we can expect to be held to say 4 points instead of the 6.5 with OBJ...  

Even if get held to 0 points, we wouldn't have a new OBJ thread by Icecube on Sunday afternoon, and I would call that an improvement. 

@tour2ma said:

Yes, he went off on the sideline in PTG, but that was passion to win... to win against good teams, not just those we were supposed to beat.

I'll never understand [or accept] why some people demonstrate zero capacity to understand this. 

Anyone who's ever played a team sport with top athletes knows they sometimes have these things happen.  The two guys on my team I'd say took the rest of a scrimmage off every 6-8 weeks or thereabouts.. they'd think someone was guarding them too closely, took too much of an injury risk when laying out to make a play, etc.  Not every star is Barry Sanders - but that doesn't diminish in any way their playmaking... or [and stay with me here] their ability to ask and receive forgiveness from the rest of the team for their foibles.  You know, just like all relationships between humans.  I'd bet OBJ has been taking a few practice plays off every 5-7 weeks because he got pissed at Ward. 

Sports are VERY emotional.. pulling out your emotions is the entire goal of a pregame speech.  There is no such passion without giving people a certain amount of rope.  This understanding and forgiveness is built in the offseason doing team cardio at 7p [in my case, 11p] on offseason Sundays. 

Yes, the Giants GM "set a policy" - and the results of that policy are trash because he's "led" his team all the way to 1 win by 1 point after how many years. So we do have dueling policies.. but not a character defect. 

If anything, the character defect is held by Gettleman because he'd rather have an inflexible policy than wins..

@tour2ma said:

=============> The rest of this post is aimed less at you, Kid, than it is nickers and D Bone, and other uninformed detractors... <====================

It has zero to do with being informed or uniformed. I simply have never been a fan of OBJ. I didn't like him in New York. I didn't like the trade. I don't like him as a Brown.... and for what it's worth, I didn't like Andre Rison either.

I'm betting the offense won't miss a beat, but that is pure speculation on my part..... just as it is for those that think the offense will suffer without him. It's all speculation based on whatever criteria the speculator is using to form their opinion.

When the season is over, then we can all speculate some more on just how much better the offense would've been had OBJ been there.... If they finish 2nd overall, there will be those that will speculate that they would've finished 1st with him. There will be others who will think they would've finished 5th. Sounds like fun and I can hardly wait. 

I wish OBJ no ill will and never want to see anyone get hurt - and with that being said...

Next. Man. Up. 

I did not know the Toto thing... maybe because I was never a fan of theirs.

But Boz... started following him during his Steve Miller Band days. Boz left when Steve went commercial, Flew Like an Eagle and became a Joker. Boz wanted to stay true to the blues influences.

Saw Boz once in The Music Hall. Show was originally set for the Pub Aud, but did not sell enough tix to warrant its use, so they decided to use the other side of the stage and go festival seating in the Music Hall. The James Cotton Blues Band opened and did a really nice set. Then came Boz who was just touring with his band, Band. Steve Miller was the "headliner". Boz stayed on stage to play a couple of their good tunes. I left after Livin in the USA when Boz left the stage and they lowered a mirrorball.

Year was '73, give or take one... so most of his underappreciated Blues releases were out, but Slow Dancer, which started to bend in the direction that ultimately produced Silk Degrees, was not as yet. I own all those blues releases.... and SIlk Degrees as well. Even have a couple of fairly recent releases where he's revisiting some of his old blues and laying down some new blues as well. Decent stuff...

It was Canton, Ohio where Boz was born. But he grew up in a couple Texas towns before meeting Steve Miller in the Dallas High School they attended... and the rest is history...

@tour2ma said:

I get your points, but how much longer could Baker have held that ball? As it was it was coming down 5 yards deep in the endzone...

As for the bucket... well... a perfect one doesn't require the receiver to turn around when he's a step behind his defender.

Pete who? Apparently any TD pass is a "plus throw" to Mr. Pete.

In the end who really cares.. We won the goddamn game... Thats thee most important stat of the day...

@tour2ma said:

Uh-huh... Just like they drew it up? WR falling backwards? At best it was a nickel... and even at that I'm getting gypped out of a couple pennies...

Stick to Loan Me a Dime, Mr. Guitar-man...

"Somebody loan me a dime... I need to call my old time used to be..."

Boz Scaggs' best... and maybe the best 12 minutes you'll spend tonite.

Boz Scaggs is great.. I understand that hes from the Canton-Akron area I believe... Infact.. He actually brought members of Toto together to record on his records.. out of those sessions.. Toto formed...

@jiggins7919 said:

Ehhh...I don't know man. He threw it early enough so the safety couldn't get there, held him for a second with his eyes toward the middle, and then dropped it right in the bucket to win the game. You also have to remember that DPJ let the ball come to him. He could've high-pointed it, but he chose to let the ball come to him. It worked out (obviously) but you'd like to see your WR go up and get it because the throw was there to grab, right over the flailing arms of the DB. This throw was labeled by SI's Pete Smith as a plus throw, in addition to the Njoku TD. 

I get your points, but how much longer could Baker have held that ball? As it was it was coming down 5 yards deep in the endzone...

As for the bucket... well... a perfect one doesn't require the receiver to turn around when he's a step behind his defender.

Pete who? Apparently any TD pass is a "plus throw" to Mr. Pete.

@nickers said:

That pass was on a dime.. Bake threw it only where DJP could get it..

Uh-huh... Just like they drew it up? WR falling backwards? At best it was a nickel... and even at that I'm getting gypped out of a couple pennies...

Stick to Loan Me a Dime, Mr. Guitar-man...

"Somebody loan me a dime... I need to call my old time used to be..."

Boz Scaggs' best... and maybe the best 12 minutes you'll spend tonite.

@tiamat63 said:

Good.   This is good.   I like it when people who never played football out themselves.

Makes it easier on who is worth responding too.

Sure know it all snob..... You just responded.. I WIN!!

@nickers said:

That pass was on a dime.. Bake threw it only where DJP could get it..

Good.   This is good.   I like it when people who never played football out themselves.

Makes it easier on who is worth responding too.

@tour2ma said:

Baker made a dozen throws during the game that were better than the gamewinner... not the least of which was the preceding high-pointed throw to Higgins.

Ehhh...I don't know man. He threw it early enough so the safety couldn't get there, held him for a second with his eyes toward the middle, and then dropped it right in the bucket to win the game. You also have to remember that DPJ let the ball come to him. He could've high-pointed it, but he chose to let the ball come to him. It worked out (obviously) but you'd like to see your WR go up and get it because the throw was there to grab, right over the flailing arms of the DB. This throw was labeled by SI's Pete Smith as a plus throw, in addition to the Njoku TD.