@gorka said:

The only reason places like Cleveland and Pittsburgh have large numbers of fan clubs across the nation is mainly due to the mass exodus of their populations. Big whoop, birds of a feather...it's not some sort of badge of honor.

No kid grows up wanting to be a Browns fan in Colorado. Wanting to be a Steeler fan however, yeah I can easily see that.  

I wish the Browns were good enough to have FRAKS.  I bet you wish the same thing, right Gipper?

@gorka said:

First of all I'm usually right.

Secondly, fraks or no fraks it's irrelevant.  Your initial point stands debunked..the  NFL is not exponentially more interesting if the Browns make the playoffs because of the "massive" amount of Browns fans/clubs across the nation. The numbers don't show it. 

Thirdly, and this hurts me as much as it does you. I avoided posting this earlier, but now you give me no choice.

https://astriasuparak.com/2010/08/23/steeler-nation-map/

This is a new map of the world representing Steeler Nation, where countries that don’t have a fan base for the Pittsburgh NFL team don’t exist. There are 2,000 self-proclaimed Steelers bars and fan clubs worldwide, existing in every American state and over 25 different countries, including Blozik’s Blitzburgh Cave in Serbia and Botticella Birreria in Rome. Flanking the map painted across a 442-foot wall in the exhibition Whatever It Takes at Carnegie Mellon’s Miller Gallery, was a list of all the bars’ names and locations. Local Steelers fans would visit the gallery and check the listings before heading out on vacation or a business trip, ensuring that they could catch the game while away from home.

The Steeler Nation Map was created for the Whatever It Takes: Steelers Fan Collections, Rituals, and Obsessions exhibition.

ONLY 25 countries?  That pales in comparison to Browns Backers Clubs Worldwide. 

Besides, you simply support my view that it is a FRAK fan base. 

But I agree with your diaspora point. 

But, you are also wrong about people growing up wanting to be Browns fans from different areas.   Maybe not now  so much, because losing doesn't invite the FRAKs  (and again...you support my FRAK argument).   But it didn't use to be that way.   I mean a kid born in Tupelo, Miss. who grew up in Memphis was a Browns fan.   How did that happen? 

(but you are wrong and I am right.....at least according to broadcasters....who said the NFL is more interesting with the Browns in the playoffs.   Now, that is a subjective point of view...but it was a national broadcaster's point of view, not mine). 

No kid grows up wanting to be a Browns fan in Colorado. Wanting to be a Steeler fan however, yeah I can easily see that.  

I wish the Browns were good enough to have FRAKS.  I bet you wish the same thing, right Gipper?

@the-gipper said:

Well, that is OK, you are allowed to be wrong as usual:

Browns Backers

The most prominent organization of Browns fans is the Browns Backers Worldwide (BBW). The organization has approximately 305,000 members^[46] and Browns Backers clubs can be found in every major city in the United States, and in a number of military bases throughout the world, with the largest club being in Phoenix, Arizona. In addition, the organization has a sizable foreign presence in places as far away as Egypt, Australia, Japan, Sri Lanka, andMcMurdo Station in Antarctica.^[47] According to The Official Fan Club of the Cleveland Browns, the two largest international fan clubs are in Alon Shvut, West Bank and Niagara, Canada, with Alon Shvut having 129 members and Niagara having 310.^[48]

^{this is actual membership in a team's "fan club".  If you claim that some other  team fan club is greater, provide your proof.  The site you linked does NOT provide that, not at all.  That is just some estimate based on nothing.} 

First of all I'm usually right.

Secondly, fraks or no fraks it's irrelevant.  Your initial point stands debunked..the  NFL is not exponentially more interesting if the Browns make the playoffs because of the "massive" amount of Browns fans/clubs across the nation. The numbers don't show it. 

Thirdly, and this hurts me as much as it does you. I avoided posting this earlier, but now you give me no choice.

https://astriasuparak.com/2010/08/23/steeler-nation-map/

This is a new map of the world representing Steeler Nation, where countries that don’t have a fan base for the Pittsburgh NFL team don’t exist. There are 2,000 self-proclaimed Steelers bars and fan clubs worldwide, existing in every American state and over 25 different countries, including Blozik’s Blitzburgh Cave in Serbia and Botticella Birreria in Rome. Flanking the map painted across a 442-foot wall in the exhibition Whatever It Takes at Carnegie Mellon’s Miller Gallery, was a list of all the bars’ names and locations. Local Steelers fans would visit the gallery and check the listings before heading out on vacation or a business trip, ensuring that they could catch the game while away from home.

The Steeler Nation Map was created for the Whatever It Takes: Steelers Fan Collections, Rituals, and Obsessions exhibition.

@diehardbrownsfan said:

Not even close.

Again, prove it.   The Browns Backers are THE largest ORGANIZED fan base, in the NFL, if not in the nation, maybe even the world. 

Now, do I believe that the Browns have the most people that declare themselves to be a fan of that team?    No, I don't.  Unlike your screen name.....many, perhaps even most  NFL fans are not "die hard".....there are in fact tons and tons of FRAKS. They will go with the winning teams, which clearly the Browns have not been , or with the teams with the better marketing.   Like your screen name....the Browns DO have a lot of Diehard fans. The Browns fan base is considered one of the best, most respected, if not largest:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/525257-nfl-power-rankings-who-has-the-best-fan-base-in-the-nfl-today

And note, that  one of theonly ones in front of them is one in my view with one of the biggest FRAK bases. 

Here is a pretty good article on frontrunner fans.    One conclusion that he makes is that in the top 3 sports, the biggest FRAK bases are the Cowboys, Yankees, and Lakers

http://dystnow.com/2013/10/10/the-anatomy-of-a-frontrunner/

@gorka said:

I don't think so. The Browns didn't even make the top 25 in this list of the largest fan bases across the nation.

https://us.bolavip.com/nfl/Top-25-NFL-teams-with-most-fans-20200501-0001.html

The Browns don't have the largest organized fan base either, so we can stop patting ourselves on the back about that.

Well, that is OK, you are allowed to be wrong as usual:

Browns Backers

The most prominent organization of Browns fans is the Browns Backers Worldwide (BBW). The organization has approximately 305,000 members^[46] and Browns Backers clubs can be found in every major city in the United States, and in a number of military bases throughout the world, with the largest club being in Phoenix, Arizona. In addition, the organization has a sizable foreign presence in places as far away as Egypt, Australia, Japan, Sri Lanka, andMcMurdo Station in Antarctica.^[47] According to The Official Fan Club of the Cleveland Browns, the two largest international fan clubs are in Alon Shvut, West Bank and Niagara, Canada, with Alon Shvut having 129 members and Niagara having 310.^[48]

^{this is actual membership in a team's "fan club".  If you claim that some other  team fan club is greater, provide your proof.  The site you linked does NOT provide that, not at all.  That is just some estimate based on nothing.} 

@the-gipper said:

Actually, I think you are both a bit off base.  The fact is, the Browns still have, I believe, the largest organized fan base in the NFL, if not in all sports.  There is still a massive amount of enthusiasm for the Browns nationwide,  particularly if they are playoff contenders after so long. 

Not even close.

@the-gipper said:

Actually, I think you are both a bit off base.  The fact is, the Browns still have, I believe, the largest organized fan base in the NFL, if not in all sports.  There is still a massive amount of enthusiasm for the Browns nationwide,  particularly if they are playoff contenders after so long. 

I don't think so. The Browns didn't even make the top 25 in this list of the largest fan bases across the nation.

https://us.bolavip.com/nfl/Top-25-NFL-teams-with-most-fans-20200501-0001.html

The Browns don't have the largest organized fan base either, so we can stop patting ourselves on the back about that.

@gorka said:

With regards to the Browns, I think it's more about the interest that sports fans have in a perennial loser that has finally achieved success.

Actually, I think you are both a bit off base.  The fact is, the Browns still have, I believe, the largest organized fan base in the NFL, if not in all sports.  There is still a massive amount of enthusiasm for the Browns nationwide,  particularly if they are playoff contenders after so long. 

@mjp28 said:

Fair? Yes if you're a BROWNS fan plus the BROWNS have got a lot of press over the last few years.

And yes the Bears have always had that *magical* draw on TV regardless of the situation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And remember not long ago BAL was the big talk about getting a top seed for the playoffs ?  No matter what it should be an interesting finish to this crazy season.

With regards to the Browns, I think it's more about the interest that sports fans have in a perennial loser that has finally achieved success.

@the-gipper said:

......Someone said that the NFL is  exponentially more interesting if the Browns and the Bears are in the playoffs....even in this 8th slot. 

Fair to say? 

Fair? Yes if you're a BROWNS fan plus the BROWNS have got a lot of press over the last few years.

And yes the Bears have always had that *magical* draw on TV regardless of the situation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And remember not long ago BAL was the big talk about getting a top seed for the playoffs ?  No matter what it should be an interesting finish to this crazy season.

The Cleveland Browns would be in the playoffs in the 8th position  IF the leagues plan has to go into effect due to Covid cancellations.

In the NFC,  it would be the Chicago Bears in  at the 8th spot. 

Someone said that the NFL is  exponentially more interesting if the Browns and the Bears are in the playoffs....even in this 8th slot. 

Fair to say? 

@browns52 said:

don't worry about other teams...you play the other teams schedules game .....it rarely works out.....browns have to control their own destiny.....just win this sunday......they better have a plan to stop watson.....if not, it will be tough.....lets see how good this new coach really is...

Yes, I know, just keep repeating the platitude:  "just keep winning and not worrying about everyone else".  Sure, that applies.  But still, these are questions/issues that can and have  come up......and bear touching on. 

@the-gipper said:

#.....On the "Strength of Victory"  metric that puts the Fish ahead of the Browns, note this:

The combined records of  Browns opponents that they beat  is:    13-26-2.  (you count the Bengals current record twice..that is why there are two ties in there)     The combined record of the Dolphins opponents that they beat is  15-27. 

I don't know how they count those ties,   But the Dolphins opponents do have  2 more wins than  Browns opponent, but also one more loss.   I do think that if you look at their respective schedules, the Dolphins do have more impressive wins:   over Rams/over Cardinals...two teams that would be in playoffs today.  "Best" Browns win was over 5-3 Colts....who would be out. 

don't worry about other teams...you play the other teams schedules game .....it rarely works out.....browns have to control their own destiny.....just win this sunday......they better have a plan to stop watson.....if not, it will be tough.....lets see how good this new coach really is...

The combined records of  Browns opponents that they beat  is:    13-26-2.  (you count the Bengals current record twice..that is why there are two ties in there)     The combined record of the Dolphins opponents that they beat is  15-27. 

I don't know how they count those ties,   But the Dolphins opponents do have  2 more wins than  Browns opponent, but also one more loss.   I do think that if you look at their respective schedules, the Dolphins do have more impressive wins:   over Rams/over Cardinals...two teams that would be in playoffs today.  "Best" Browns win was over 5-3 Colts....who would be out. 

Colts at Titans

Bills at Cardinals

Seahawks at Rams. 

Jets  0-9

Jags  1-7

Cowboys 2-7

Giants 2-7

Washington 2-6

Chargers 2-6 

Texans  2-6

Bengals  2-5-1