Zombo said:

Mike Johnson and Vince Costello made my all-time roster in 2019. Many others received recognition. A pretty good group overall.

/topic/53788

I would absolutely agree that  Johnson and Costello would fit where you have them.  They are the best that we have had there. 

I am only saying that the Browns have never had an MLB of the likes of Butkus/Lambert/Nitschke/Lewis/Urlacher/Huff/Lanier/Schmidt/Singletary/Seau and others. 

By the way....now turn Mack Speedie to Gold....selected to HOF. 

Browns MLBs with top CAs:

Charlie Hall  62      

Mike Johnson   56

Vince Costello  53

DQwell Jackson  51

Dick Ambrose 47

Eddie Johnson 43

Dale Lindsay   40

Walt Michaels played too early to have a proper Career Average score, as that particular stat really goes back to like 1960

So, OK, these are good, but by no means great scores and these were good but by no means great players.   And I will repeat my claim that we have never really had that  stud  MLB ...HOF potential. 

Compare these to a couple of outstanding  OLBs in the Browns history:

Jim Houston....Career Average    89    and still has not had a sniff of HOF recognition

Clay Matthews  125 CA    and while he is getting sniffs, he has not made HOF.  

(Note:  Chip Banks  had a Career Average with the Browns of 55.   so he would fall in the good, not great category  IMO).  

@tour2ma said:

Back to Ignore you go...

Same old Gipper... clueless when it comes to football.

The Clueless  Coward of Cass County returns I see.   Hall of Fame recognition and Pro Bowl recognition  are ridiculous ways to assess a player's career. That is what this clown is saying.  Does he read what he writes? 

And the fact is...the people who are experts and in charge of things felt that Schobert would be better off inside. 

So, Tour thinks he is smarter than all the players/coaches/GMs/sports writers in the NFL who look at player's careers and decide who were best at their jobs,  and who are responsible for the deployment of the players in their employ. 

Same old Gipper... clueless when it comes to football.

@tour2ma said:

1. Vince and Dick were both pretty good for a long time and impacted the games when they played. HOF is a ridiculous criteria and Pro Bowl isn't much better as it only means that a couple of others were better at their positions in a given year.
2. So?  To you making Pro Bowls and making the HOF are inconsequential when judging a player's career?  Does the rest of the planet know about this? 
3.  
4. Again, no... different Defensive schemes... different skill sets. There's no basis for saying Joe would or would not be good on the outside in a 4-3. Only thing that can be said is that Williams believed Joe's contributions would be greater inside.
5. Well, the basis is they tried him outside and apparently didn't like what they saw, so they put him inside and did like it.  What scheme and where is Jacksonville playing him? 

@the-gipper said:

1. They were pretty good, but certainly not HOF caliber. In fact, in checking neither of them actually ever made a Pro Bowl.  Mike Johnson and Walt Michaels are the only Browns MLBs that I see making more than one.
2. That was what I was thinking of....the fact that he played on the outside his rookie year...and they felt the need to put him inside. 

1. Vince and Dick were both pretty good for a long time and impacted the games when they played. HOF is a ridiculous criteria and Pro Bowl isn't much better as it only means that a couple of others were better at their positions in a given year.
2. Again, no... different Defensive schemes... different skill sets. There's no basis for saying Joe would or would not be good on the outside in a 4-3. Only thing that can be said is that Williams believed Joe's contributions would be greater inside.

@tour2ma said:

Dick Ambrose was about as good as we've ever had. I mean the guy's nickname was "Bam Bam"...

And of course there was Vince Costello in the middle back in our heyday. Held down the spot for a decade. Met Vince at the '64 teams Hiram reunion.

They were pretty good, but certainly not HOF caliber. In fact, in checking neither of them actually ever made a Pro Bowl.  Mike Johnson and Walt Michaels are the only Browns MLBs that I see making more than one. 

Not exactly... he played some LOLB his rookie year in Horton's 3-4. Played heavier and looked slow. Kirksey filled one of the ILB slots.

The next year it was the trimmed-down Joe that moved into the middle of Williams' 4-3. Kirk moved outside. I think Williams knew what he was doing, but Joe likely would have done well outside.

That was what I was thinking of....the fact that he played on the outside his rookie year...and they felt the need to put him inside. 

Zombo said:

Bottlegate!

I threw bottles!

Z

Thatta boy!    Just a few days later, somebody posted a picture of Stan (Atenears) in the wind-up throwing a bottle while he was already nervous about a potential court case with Merletti.  I hit the deck LMAO and he told me "it's not funny Flugel that Merletti is a bad dude."  I said you just tell that Stadium Five-O Chief nobody fux with your curve ball. 

I miss that guy!  

@the-gipper said:

The thing is, the Browns, in their entire history have not really ever had that major stud at  MLB.

Dick Ambrose was about as good as we've ever had. I mean the guy's nickname was "Bam Bam"...

And of course there was Vince Costello in the middle back in our heyday. Held down the spot for a decade. Met Vince at the '64 teams Hiram reunion.

@the-gipper said:

No they tried that. It didn’t work 

Not exactly... he played some LOLB his rookie year in Horton's 3-4. Played heavier and looked slow. Kirksey filled one of the ILB slots.

The next year it was the trimmed-down Joe that moved into the middle of Williams' 4-3. Kirk moved outside. I think Williams knew what he was doing, but Joe likely would have done well outside.

@dutch-oven said:

I always wondered if Schobert would have been better cast at the weakside LB in the 4-3, instead of the MLB position. 

He was smart player who was good against the pass, but definitely not Butkus against the run. 

No they tried that. It didn’t work 

He was smart player who was good against the pass, but definitely not Butkus against the run. 

@tour2ma said:

He was never a tone-setting type MLB. I mean can you recall a single hit he made that prompted you to say, "Whoa"? I can't..

I kind of agree with you there. Joe was never a Ray Lewis or Kuechly guy (God I wanted him so badly), but he was a guy who made plays, ya know? Interceptions, fumble recoveries, sacks, or whatever. He was around the ball ALWAYS, and he could cover. That being said, Schobert hasn't really played all that well this season I don't think (I could be wrong). 

In end, it's a good thing we didn't sign him because of the covid budget crunch next year, so we're still in good shape. We've got to extend Ward, Teller, Chubb, and probably others. 

@jiggins7919 said:

I still miss him....as does our defense. We'd be really different on D with him. 

Prepare for a shock... I disagree.

He was never a tone-setting type MLB. I mean can you recall a single hit he made that prompted you to say, "Whoa"? I can't...

Would we be better? Yes... but not demonstrably different.

But rest easy... he might be back down the road as his (IMO) oversized contract is back-loaded going from a very friendly $5.4mm this season to $9.9 next to $13.6 in 2014 with the bulk of the back-end non-guaranteed.

We're going to suffer mightily without Ward & Myles.  Hopefully we can slip out of florida with a win Sunday, Tenn I had as a loss on my schedule but I was hoping that we could be at full strength for the Ravens game...I'd be surprised if Ward is back by then.

@canton-dawg said:

I saw it on the sports report on channel 8 news out of Cleveland this morning.

They had a graphic up on the screen about it, but unfortunately my boss was on the phone at that time (TV was muted).

Ward does not want to lose the race to see which highly drafted CB is out the most games this year, himself or Greedy.?

@hx214 said:

When the hell did that happen?

I saw it on the sports report on channel 8 news out of Cleveland this morning.

They had a graphic up on the screen about it, but unfortunately my boss was on the phone at that time (TV was muted).

@canton-dawg said:

Denzel Ward pulled a calf muscle, with an MRI pending.

His status for Sunday’s game is uncertain.

When the hell did that happen?

His status for Sunday’s game is uncertain.

Zombo said:

Yes, I have sat in that stadium in Jacksonville and been disappointed many times.

Remember, Jacksonville was in the AFC Central from 1995-2001.

I think the Browns will be locked in this week, though ... But you always have to watch out for the wounded animal.

Zombo

I was there for the last game before leaving for Baltimore. We lost on a terrible pass interference call at the last second. Lol. It was poetic. 

However, I was ALSO there for the Quincy Morgan Hail Mary! That shit was one of the best sporting experiences in my life. Punches were thrown, smack was talked, cops were involved, and we ran down the ramps of the stadium like we won the championship. 

@tour2ma said:

As for Schobert in JAX... he ain't no Paul Posluszny.

I still miss him....as does our defense. We'd be really different on D with him.