@gunz41 said:

I was going off his post, no offense meant

Too late. 1,000$ would me forget the trauma. 

@nero said:

Again. I'm an ARCHITECT. 

We like Architects.    Brian Sipe became an architect after football.   Now, talk about a rebranding. 

By the way.....the  Makeup and Director of Special Effects for The Mandalorian  is named Brian Sipe:

https://www.briansipe.com/the-madalorian

and more:

 Brian Sipe is known for his work on Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (2017), Captain Marvel(2019) and X-Men: Days of Future Past (2014).

I wonder if that could be his kid. 

Edit:  I have checked an can find nothing that says the two are related. 

@nero said:

Again. I'm an ARCHITECT. 

I was going off his post, no offense meant

@gunz41 said:

Nero- Engineer (I think I remember)

Again. I'm an ARCHITECT. 

@unsympathetic said:

Other factoids that may interest only me:

In no particular order, on this thread, we have seen: Two business consultants each w >15 years of experience, an elected Ohio judge, 5 engineers, an experienced football coach, and a gumby. 

This isn't the Ravens forum for the insane traveling carnival magicians and homeless yoga instructors - people are actually professionals here.

Now I am trying to rack my brain to figure out who is who in this lol

So here is a good Gipper trivia. Identity the 10 people Unsympathetic is speaking of 

I think I can name 4. 

Gipper- Judge

Nero- Engineer (I think I remember)

Gumby- the tiny green bender

Gunz41- the dumb jock football coach

P.S.- The "presumed" high schooler that MUST know more than the aforementioned 10, apereg11. 

And by the way, I searched the other teams message boards that I could find, and the ONLY mention I found on rebranding was asked by a college professor I believe it was. Haha

@dutch-oven said:

This thread might be the biggest "Who gives a fuck?" thread I've seen on here in quite a while. 

Well done to everyone involved. 

We try our best. 

I don't know why, but now I want to eat some cereals

Well done to everyone involved. 

@unsympathetic said:

Other factoids that may interest only me:

In no particular order, on this thread, we have seen: Two business consultants each w >15 years of experience, an elected Ohio judge, 5 engineers, an experienced football coach, and a gumby. 

Some respect, please. I hope you're not calling me Engineer, I'm an Architect. 

Gumby could be considered Engineer of Words. 

@unsympathetic said:

Other factoids that may interest only me:

In no particular order, on this thread, we have seen: Two business consultants each w >15 years of experience, an elected Ohio judge, 5 engineers, an experienced football coach, and a gumby. 

This isn't the Ravens forum for the insane traveling carnival magicians and homeless yoga instructors - people are actually professionals here.

Actually I am not elected in my position. I am appointed. Assuming you were talking about me when you said Ohio judge. 

@apereg11 said:

I have been researching marketing in sports for the past three months

In no particular order, on this thread, we have seen: Two business consultants each w >15 years of experience, an elected Ohio judge, 5 engineers, an experienced football coach, and a gumby. 

This isn't the Ravens forum for the insane traveling carnival magicians and homeless yoga instructors - people are actually professionals here.

Over the 28 year period from 1946 to  1973,    the Browns had    26 winning record seasons.   One  .500 season, and one losing season.   That one year being 1956, the hangover year after the retirement of Otto Graham. 

I don't know if any team has ever matched that record. 

Patriots I know may be fairly close.   And perhaps Cowboys.  

In checking:

Patriots, in 28 years since 1992  have had  5 losing seasons....3 of them at the beginning of the counting  and 1 .500 season. 

Dallas between 1965 and 1992  had  5 losing seasons and 1. .500 season. 

The Steelers in the last 28 years, same period as the Pats,  have only had 3 losing seasons....and 4  .500 seasons

The 49ers from 1980 to 2008 had 9 losing seasons. 

The Chicago Bears,   from 1920 to 1948  only had 2 losing seasons...and no .500 season   (Plus 3 more in a row after that.)  

The Green Bay Packers from 1921 to 1949  had only  3 losing seasons, and no .500 seasons. 

It's a redesigning of the product, but it goes as far as changing the uniforms, fonts, and the style everything is portrayed to the media (banners, etc), but it isn't a full rebranding as the brand already exists and substantially keeps being the same. If I recall correctly, some friends I have doing that kind of stuff in publicity companies would call it ''branding'', but not ''rebranding''. 

@apereg11 said:

Yeah I'm just gonna stop responding to this thread because at this point it's a huge waste of time. I've had ZERO issues with the others team I'm investigating (I've posted my survey on fan forums for all the teams I'm looking at). This could just be because I'm a Ravens fan, or it could be because you all are just stubborn old men who won't take 30 seconds out of their day to help someone out (like seriously you won't die by filling out a survey that you deem to not be 100% accurate).  I've stated my reasons for the Browns 2018-2020 "rebrand" numerous times, so if any of you want to take the time to read the whole thread, be my guest. I'm not even going to give any of you the satisfaction of saying you "broke me down" or "defeated me" because you honestly didn't. I've never really had any negative views towards the Dawg Pound, but this whole discussion has really showed the true colors of the Browns faithful. I guess one positive that come out of this is that you guys truly do represent your team because just like a "dawg" once you bite, you don't ever let go. Good bye to you all.

Never ONCE was I anything but helpful to you.

You just have some kind of set thoughts and will not waiver or even look at another view. And you seem to be of the opinion that someone who doesn't agree is against you or trying to break you down.

But no sir, you did not explain your reasons why you considered it a rebrand. What you did say was incorrect (i.e. mentioned Stefanski). And you also did not explain AT ALL a thought process on a 2014 rebrand. 

If you can use any variables you want and it is just for a grade, then by all means go for it. But you stated you chose this topic because of you being interested in it. 

And from what I have read, 1 person on here has said something rude to you. Yet you classify everyone on here in a negative way, and even go as far as saying anyone who wouldn't help you isn't being decent. 

@apereg11 said:

like seriously you won't die by filling out a survey

Like seriously you won't die by changing your proposed definition of "rebrand" to match reality.

@apereg11 said:

I'm not even going to give any of you the satisfaction of saying you "broke me down" or "defeated me"

This thread isn't an attack on you - it's an attack on your strategy.  The definition is the entire thing whether you're capable of acknowledging it or not.

You had a hypothesis and data was presented which your hypothesis couldn't deal with.  Your hypothesis has to change.. it's objectively wrong.  Be willing to change when you're presented with new information that you hadn't considered.

Your emotion has nothing to do with it.  Nobody has the slightest care whether you're defeated or not.   Pro tip: Get over yourself. 

Even if your pride tells you that your acceptance of some content on this thread is "taking an L" - man to man, the better move would be to make the changes and walk away with the W of a paper that represents reality.  At present, you're wrong, and no amount of emotion changes that.

Ravenfan52 has a son?

@apereg11 said:

Yeah I'm just gonna stop responding to this thread because at this point it's a huge waste of time. I've had ZERO issues with the others team I'm investigating (I've posted my survey on fan forums for all the teams I'm looking at). This could just be because I'm a Ravens fan, or it could be because you all are just stubborn old men who won't take 30 seconds out of their day to help someone out (like seriously you won't die by filling out a survey that you deem to not be 100% accurate).  I've stated my reasons for the Browns 2018-2020 "rebrand" numerous times, so if any of you want to take the time to read the whole thread, be my guest. I'm not even going to give any of you the satisfaction of saying you "broke me down" or "defeated me" because you honestly didn't. I've never really had any negative views towards the Dawg Pound, but this whole discussion has really showed the true colors of the Browns faithful. I guess one positive that come out of this is that you guys truly do represent your team because just like a "dawg" once you bite, you don't ever let go. Good bye to you all.

It has fuck all to do with you being a Ravens fan....

And now you ARE  being a complete obstinate child.    And apparently,  ungrateful  as well.    All the things I and Gunz have done here to educate you to the truth, but  YOU are the one that turns around and show your true colors by being ungrateful for that,  and continuing on with your misguided, off base contentions.

Here is the point: "  Your"  reasons for  claiming the Browns have rebranded  are just wrong, absurd, and useless...and your research and conclusion will be so off base that they will  be drivel.....and we have tried to help you understand that, so that you can try to do things properly.  Better for you to hear this from us than your teacher. 

Your project, if you continue to include the Browns based on you incorrect assumptions  in it,  will be garbage, and we are trying to help you avoid that. 

And see, what you have actually run into here are not old men or Ravens haters...at least as it applies to you.   You have found a truly dedicated, knowledgeable, intelligent fan base  who is aware of their history and purpose.  It may be something you have never been exposed to before.

So, yes....dis-include the Browns from your study.  Your grade will be better for it.  As I have advised many times....replace them with the Raiders, who are really a more apt franchise for your research. 

@apereg11 said:

Yeah I'm just gonna stop responding to this thread because at this point it's a huge waste of time. I've had ZERO issues with the others team I'm investigating (I've posted my survey on fan forums for all the teams I'm looking at). This could just be because I'm a Ravens fan, or it could be because you all are just stubborn old men who won't take 30 seconds out of their day to help someone out (like seriously you won't die by filling out a survey that you deem to not be 100% accurate).  I've stated my reasons for the Browns 2018-2020 "rebrand" numerous times, so if any of you want to take the time to read the whole thread, be my guest. I'm not even going to give any of you the satisfaction of saying you "broke me down" or "defeated me" because you honestly didn't. I've never really had any negative views towards the Dawg Pound, but this whole discussion has really showed the true colors of the Browns faithful. I guess one positive that come out of this is that you guys truly do represent your team because just like a "dawg" once you bite, you don't ever let go. Good bye to you all.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on t he way out!

@apereg11 said:

Thank you again for the constructive criticism, and trust me I wouldn't lie about being a high schooler because of all things that puts a larger target on my back. As I mentioned in my first response in this thread, my definition of a rebrand is more of a mentality change surrounding the organization. I didn't pull this definition out of my ass. I have been researching marketing in sports for the past three months and the identity of a team is what people tend to consider most when choosing their fandom. In my survey it mentions only the hiring of Stefanski as part of the rebrand, not the Freddie Kitchens disaster. With my definition of a rebrand, the Warriors wouldn't be considered a rebranded team over the past ten years because their identity as being a title contender hasn't changed (besides last year, but that was because of uncontrollable injuries). Mountain Dew adding a new flavor would also not be considered a rebrand with my definition because the company has the same identity in the public's eyes. 

But you see young man, you are still not understanding the point that I am trying to help you with. Others are pointing out the same thing, and Gipper is actually being very nice to you.

So I will try to explain it clearer.

1. I didn't come up with the dates 2014 and 2018, you stated them. And you are using them as rebranding. But the Browns were simply bad until a little life in 2018 and then looking pretty good this year. So nothing changed in those 2 years you stated.

Furthermore, in this very post I am replying to you mentioned Stefanski. Well he didn't arrive until 2020, so he had ZERO to do with 2018 and how you are trying to equate that.

2. You are trying to equate a new "mindset" etc as your rebranding, getting younger. That is why I brought up Warriors and Mountain Dew. The Warriors for sure would equate to what you have said ON HERE about rebranding as their was a major change. 

3. The Jaguars point must have went over your head. You even said you would look at them the opposite. So they would still be considered rebranded. 2016: 3-13, 2017: 10-6 AFC championship game, 2018: 5-11. They certainly didn't go through 3 rebranding in 3 years, what they had in 2017 would be considered an OUTLIER. And while I don't think it to be the case, without further data to substantiate it, you can't equate the Browns to not being an outlier this year.

4. Like Gipper said, most people aren't using something tangible to pick their team. It usually comes from a physical location or some kind of tie in. There are also those that may continue to follow/like a player and thus his team from college. 

As a high school senior you are 17-18, so say Born 2003. So say when you were aware, 2008. So just be honest and answer this question, what is the reason YOU are a Ravens fan? Because your family is? Because you live in Maryland? Because you liked Ray Lewis? I'll guess its one of those reasons.

Yet you are basing your project on some other theory and making the case that for fans of other teams that they CHOSE that. And you use the Browns (for some reason) who have been one of the worst franchises in your lifetime and think that. 

Again, if you can define rebranding as what you want then that is fine, more power to you. But you can't have that definition for one data point and not adhere to the same for another example.

So in closing, and maybe this can help you with your project:

What is the REASONING behind you declaring in YOUR terms the Browns had a rebranding in 2014 and again in 2018? What were the specific circumstances that brought you to that conclusion?

Well, here is another thing I have a MAJOR issue with.....and which you may need to learn:   I am of the opinion that TRUE fans do NOT "Choose" their fandom.....they are more often born into it, either by proximity to the areas they grow up in....like myself being from NE Ohio;  or they have some familial influence....like a Dad or something that was a fan of a team who got his kid to be one also.

To talk about "choosing fandom"  speaks to us   of FRAK  behavior.   That may be a term you are unfamiliar with.  FRAK is an acronym for  FrontRunnerAssKisser.   These are people who choose to be a fan of a team because that team is winning.   A FRAK is about the most despicable of character flaws.  It means, essentially, that you are a whore for winning,   but as soon as things go wrong, they jump ship to a different team that wins a lot.  We have to deal with a lot of fucking Steeler FRAK fans around here. 

So, Hell no, I don't believe in "choosing" your fandom.   It comes to you naturally. 

You are from Maryland, and I believe you said the Ravens are your team.  That seems a natural circumstance;  and can I assume that if the Ravens have losing seasons for the next 10-12 years that you would still support them? If not, consider your self a deplorable FRAK.....if you were to jump your fandom to another team. ** see below

As you can see from the passion shown here,  most Browns fans are certainly NOT FRAKs.   A true test of a fan base is how loyal they remain in the midst of a long losing run.   And by that measure, you should be aware that the Browns fans may be considered the best fans in the entire NFL.

** But, also, do not confuse FRAKs with "Fair-weathered fans".   These are fans that still always root for the same team,  but their passions become tepid with a lot of losing...but they do come back out of the woodwork when their team starts winning. 

@unsympathetic said:

As many people have stated -- If every 3-5 years are a rebranding then the term "rebranding" has no actual meaning.. because that word has to be fundamentally more substantial than the changes that are in fact a part of day-to-day [or year-to-year] operations.  Browns hiring different GM/coach/QB's have really just been operations.

Haslam took far too long to accept that him doing day-to-day ops is not a good thing.. and because the team was his playtoy, he was "given" the "organizational opportunity" to learn it in-house rather than what would happen if he was in any position other than owner.... he'd get the boot.

[Wait, what? Rich people aren't any smarter than the rest of us? Yep. That's exactly what I'm saying. If anything, $ leads to a loss of self-awareness]

What's an actual "rebrand" ? Vegas is a good one.  Browns to Baltimore and restarting record books is one. 

OK...Browns NEVER moved to Baltimore....and there was no "restart" ...just a continuation

But otherwise you are pretty spot on with this post. 

Chargers moving back to LA [yes, they spent one year in LA many yrs ago before moving to SD] and getting no fans in seats is a great example of a failing rebrand that's still good for the owner [the TV contract].  All the other examples you stated would.... really be operations.

If it's all about marketing [which reports to operations] then.. the discussion seems entirely different and pure fluff/fact-doesn't-matter land.  1-3yr draft priorities is just the GM doing [or not doing, hi Texans and Jaguars] their job.  Jags didn't "rebrand" under Caldwell because the problem was Caldwell not the players on the team and so if anything I'd say the rebranding would be when they hire a new full-time GM.. But as the thread has discussed the hiring/firing of GM's isn't really a rebranding either..

@apereg11 said:

See, this is the real criticism I can actually take. Thank you for not insulting me just because I'm not a Browns fan, and I'll make sure to go nowhere near Fort Lauderdale. 

No, Cal gave you some bad advice, for a couple of reasons.    See, when we were young, Ft. Lauderdale was THE place to go for Spring break.   A group of us went there...and we RULED  Ft. Lauderdale and had a great time.*   But since then, the spring break party has moved to other locations.   So feel free to go to those....when  the Covid problem has been resolved.  I thought that is what he is going to say.  But, by all means, at some point you may also want to do what he suggests:  go off to Canada or some other northern Climate and camp, hike, canoe,  fish, fuck, (if you have the right companion)  etc. etc.  

**  Fort Lauderdale,  1974. 

@apereg11 said:

Can you name a time where I was childish and insulting? I was the one who has been man enough to admit I was wrong about the Browns' history and ask for forgiveness. Also I'm a senior taking all college classes, and this is technically part of my homework. 

I don't know about others,  but I have been trying to give you constructive criticism.  Your mistake was in identifying where you are from and what team you root for.....you would have been better off not mentioning that.  You see...part of that history that you likely were not aware of is the animas the Browns fans have for  Baltimore, its political Pirates, and their idiot fans who seemed to have forgotten their own history.**  I didn't care about that.  You could be from SheBip Iowa for all I care.  I am just trying to get you to do more research, learn more about the teams you are trying to highlight.....direct you to actually choose the right teams for your study,  and point out where you made so many false assumptions. 

** You see, what we here think of Baltimore is that it was a city that could not keep its own team...the Colts,  a city that could not convince the NFL that it was worthy of receiving one of the 1995 expansion teams the went to Jacksonville and Carolina instead, and a city that could not succeed in getting a team without offering a massive bribe to our inept and insolvent owner to come there.    We all remember how they excused Modell for attempting to do the same thing that  they were completely up in arms when Irsay pulled the Colts from Baltimore.

So here, again, instead of the Browns....you would be better off asking Baltimore fans who had a major rebranding...by having one franchise leave, and having another created for them to appease their avarice.