@tour2ma said:

R-i-i-i-i-i-ig-h-t...

Before my real answer I have to note your sudden concern over the assignment of blame for the impact of the virus. Fine... it goes with the territory.

First... there are time lags... infection to symptoms (if they occur)... then symptoms to case confirmations... then symptoms to hospitalization... then hospitalization to death, a/k/a your "body count. All in all that 2 to 4 weeks. But sure, as time passes the responsibility for the response will shift to the Biden Administration

Then there is the faction that will continue to resist masking and social distancing. By and large that will still be on Trump and his acolytes for it was he and them that reinforced the resistance to such measures by word and deed. I say "by and large" because there are many in that group who either have no political views or are even Bidden supporters, but simply want to "live their lives." Some will be reached, but many won't. The latter group will be on Biden; the former remains on trump.

Can this last divide be quantified? Possibly in general using the vote count tally from November, 2020, roughly 70/(70+80) = 0.466 or 47% on Trump.

You can, and I am sure will, disagree with my take, but you can't disagree with my math.

All? Obviously no, he's not, but here are some facts to consider.

The U.S. makes up roughly:

• 4% of the world's population yet...
• 25% of the world's Covid-19 cases and...
• 20% of the world's Covid-19 deaths.

And if you remember, we had a "draconian lockdown". It was farily early on, but we had one. At least we did on the coasts and in highly concetrated population areas. Even had one here in my modest little East Texas city. What we did not have is a comprehensive plan coming out of the lockdown utilizing masks and common sense until the first wave subsided. What we did not have was an example of how to safely reopen. Instead it was get out there... save the economy.... save the stock market... get back to school... "We have to get our kids back in school."

As to why other countries have rising counts. Where that is occurring the causes vary to some degree from country to country, but these two factors are common to all, the 2nd wave that was always expected come the winter and the virus' mutation(s) that occurred. Factors that vary include the length of the shutdown and the degree, and speed, of the reopening.

Question back to you... Why have some other countries, modern, democratic countries with high test rates and sizeable population centers been so much more successful than us in handling the pandemic? Countries like:

• Australia - population 25.5mm... cases 29k.... deaths 900
• New Zealand ------ pop. 4.8mm... cases 2.3k.... deaths 25
• Taiwan ---------------- pop. 24mm.... cases 870.... deaths 7

And Australia and New Zealand have long been thru their 2nd, their Winter's wave.

So what was their secret?

Island with low population density

Island 

Island

Are we starting to see a pattern here?

WSS

@vambo said:

From here out everything is on Biden.

@canton-dawg said:

Including the Covid body count.

R-i-i-i-i-i-ig-h-t...

Before my real answer I have to note your sudden concern over the assignment of blame for the impact of the virus. Fine... it goes with the territory.

First... there are time lags... infection to symptoms (if they occur)... then symptoms to case confirmations... then symptoms to hospitalization... then hospitalization to death, a/k/a your "body count. All in all that 2 to 4 weeks. But sure, as time passes the responsibility for the response will shift to the Biden Administration

Then there is the faction that will continue to resist masking and social distancing. By and large that will still be on Trump and his acolytes for it was he and them that reinforced the resistance to such measures by word and deed. I say "by and large" because there are many in that group who either have no political views or are even Bidden supporters, but simply want to "live their lives." Some will be reached, but many won't. The latter group will be on Biden; the former remains on trump.

Can this last divide be quantified? Possibly in general using the vote count tally from November, 2020, roughly 70/(70+80) = 0.466 or 47% on Trump.

You can, and I am sure will, disagree with my take, but you can't disagree with my math.

@the-cysko-kid said:

You're still denying for some reason, i can't put my finger on why, that everywhere in the world even places that did draconian lockdowns still have rising counts. Is germany trumps fault? Spain? England? Italy? Canada? Mexico? How much covid is trump responsible for? All of it?

All? Obviously no, he's not, but here are some facts to consider.

The U.S. makes up roughly:

• 4% of the world's population yet...
• 25% of the world's Covid-19 cases and...
• 20% of the world's Covid-19 deaths.

And if you remember, we had a "draconian lockdown". It was farily early on, but we had one. At least we did on the coasts and in highly concetrated population areas. Even had one here in my modest little East Texas city. What we did not have is a comprehensive plan coming out of the lockdown utilizing masks and common sense until the first wave subsided. What we did not have was an example of how to safely reopen. Instead it was get out there... save the economy.... save the stock market... get back to school... "We have to get our kids back in school."

As to why other countries have rising counts. Where that is occurring the causes vary to some degree from country to country, but these two factors are common to all, the 2nd wave that was always expected come the winter and the virus' mutation(s) that occurred. Factors that vary include the length of the shutdown and the degree, and speed, of the reopening.

Question back to you... Why have some other countries, modern, democratic countries with high test rates and sizeable population centers been so much more successful than us in handling the pandemic? Countries like:

• Australia - population 25.5mm... cases 29k.... deaths 900
• New Zealand ------ pop. 4.8mm... cases 2.3k.... deaths 25
• Taiwan ---------------- pop. 24mm.... cases 870.... deaths 7

And Australia and New Zealand have long been thru their 2nd, their Winter's wave.

So what was their secret?

@vambo said:

We'll see if Tex and Tour continue the body count or if it was TDS.

Hell Vambo, you know those tough Texans gotta blame somebody.

@canton-dawg said:

Including the Covid body count.

We'll see if Tex and Tour continue the body count or if it was TDS.

We here in Los Angeles county have been under the toughest mandates of any area of the country for the entirety of the outbreak.... yet we lead the world in cases????? 

LA county and California in general is as Blue as it gets. I don't travel down to the shit hole that is LA very often (thank you Baby Jeebus) but the few times I've had to, I didn't see a single person not wearing a mask when around others.... Sure, people driving alone, pumping gas alone with no mask, but everyone else walking on the sidewalk or in the store(s) I had to go to were all wearing masks..... You HAVE to. 

^ Yes I know the poison that some of you call "The News" would show a rogue person or small group here or there "taking over a store" without masks, to trick you Jim Jones Follower types into thinking that's what is happening all over the city, but let me assure you, the vast majority of us..... 90%+ have been wearing cut up underwear on our faces since March.

Yes, restaurants and bars got to open for a millisecond with limited capacity and out door dinning, but that all disappeared like a fart in the wind. 

I could go on and on about the restrictions here, but I think you get the point.

So my questions are simple....

1) If the most strict restrictions in the nation have not seemed to help one bit in a relativity small (to the entire country) area, then how would they have helped the rest of the country? Better performing underwear on all faces? Maybe thongs?? (they're a bit thicker) 

2) (Only for those that think Trump should have done more) What more should he have done? (remember Los Angeles county's awesome results before typing!!) 

My answers to my own questions:

1) Fuck if I know.

2) Trump should have been a true leader of the nation and not whipped his blind, orange followers into a frenzy. He should have been more "Lets all come together and beat the hell out of this thing as Americans always do." instead of the divisive rhetoric that poured out of that meat devouring hole in the front of his obese orange face. 

If he "Loved America" just half as much as he claimed to, he would've united the country as one, instead of dividing the country..... even if that Fruit Of The Loom hanging in front of our faces was like walking into a burning building with a wet T-Shirt on thinking it would protect you from the fire. 

You can stick your moralizing bullshit where the sun don't shine. I wear a little mask, for what good it does. I already don't go out socializing.  There's nothing more I can do. My family still has to eat and God help you if you try to put your nose in my business. 

@hoorta said:

1) You don't know that. 

2) There wouldn't have been ignoring the problem, masks optional, and screw social distancing.  # of White House covid cases as opposed to  Biden's group is damn proof that the numbers could have been kept down. 

You so what if crowd are disgusting.  

@vambo said:

From here out everything is on Biden.

Including the Covid body count.

A classic story.

[The truth:. Shortly after law enforcement forcibly removed peaceful protesters from an area in front of St. John’s Church on June 1, 2020, U.S. President Donald Trump walked over from the White House to take photographs holding a Bible. While many took to Twitter to criticize the use of force on protesters for a photo-op, some incorrectly claimed that the president was holding the Bible upside down. ]

But I like the myth....but he did fumble it around.

@the-cysko-kid said:

But instead of awfulism and outrage you'd be hearing what a courageous and wholesome job they've been doing to hold it to a mere 400,000 in the face of the average age and weight of the population and the population density. 

1) You don't know that. 

2) There wouldn't have been ignoring the problem, masks optional, and screw social distancing.  # of White House covid cases as opposed to  Biden's group is damn proof that the numbers could have been kept down. 

You so what if crowd are disgusting.  

@canton-dawg said:

You lost me at intelligent commentary in the Washington Post.

I’ve read more intelligent literature on the walls of public restrooms.

Generally,  that's the level of discussion in this forum. 

That way we can convince ourselves that it's all on Trump and that will somehow make us feel better because, reasons. 

@cccjwh said:

It turned out to be more serious than I had expected (and that particular news is  close to a year old) but the Panic has still been unwarranted and remains unwarranted

WSS

@westside-steve said:

And just think had Democrats been in power there would only be 400,000 dead.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

And just think had Democrats been in power there would only be 400,000 dead.

WSS

@the-cysko-kid said:

But instead of awfulism and outrage you'd be hearing what a courageous and wholesome job they've been doing to hold it to a mere 400,000 in the face of the average age and weight of the population and the population density. 

I’m out of accolades for the day gentlemen....but well done!

@westside-steve said:

And just think had Democrats been in power there would only be 400,000 dead.

WSS

But instead of awfulism and outrage you'd be hearing what a courageous and wholesome job they've been doing to hold it to a mere 400,000 in the face of the average age and weight of the population and the population density. 

WSS

@hoorta said:

FWIW, I've never encouraged anyone to come over to this cesspool of conspiracy. I've told most people to avoid it for that reason. What you going to do for the next four years? Bitch about how the Democrats are going to destroy democracy? When OTOH, your "Greatest President Ever" incited a mob to storm the Capitol, that got him Impeached for a second time in nothing flat... . 

I've said it before- right wing snowflakes (that means you)  wouldn't be able to stand it if 50 folks with a liberal bent started posting here. That certainly could drown out the Red State noise that passes for fact.  Ya see Cal, when you read intelligent commentary on articles in the Washington Post (that number in the thousands) it shows me exactly how far right wing radicals have burrowed a mile deep in the Trump rabbit hole.    

You lost me at intelligent commentary in the Washington Post.

I’ve read more intelligent literature on the walls of public restrooms.

@calfoxwc said:

I don't care at all. See, WE believe in free speech. Your friend ? paid you to come here and not be serious and screw with people while he's gone?

yeah. sounds like it. LOL

FWIW, I've never encouraged anyone to come over to this cesspool of conspiracy. I've told most people to avoid it for that reason. What you going to do for the next four years? Bitch about how the Democrats are going to destroy democracy? When OTOH, your "Greatest President Ever" incited a mob to storm the Capitol, that got him Impeached for a second time in nothing flat... . 

I've said it before- right wing snowflakes (that means you)  wouldn't be able to stand it if 50 folks with a liberal bent started posting here. That certainly could drown out the Red State noise that passes for fact.  Ya see Cal, when you read intelligent commentary on articles in the Washington Post (that number in the thousands) it shows me exactly how far right wing radicals have burrowed a mile deep in the Trump rabbit hole.