@tour2ma said:

Why a new thread ion a topic that has one? One, I must add, that you made several posts in?

Search for relevance?

/topic/59959

Just didn't remember it at the time.  And it was apparently buried somewhere on the 2d or 3rd page back. 

Why be a **MASK**  about it? 

Search for relevance?

/topic/59959

-

At some point later we will use this as a scoreboard to detail who stays and who goes. 

@tour2ma said:

I needed to read MKC's reply a little more closely as I thought $6mm/yr seemed low to franchise a RB... remembered Bell costing PTG alot more than that seasons ago.

MKC's averaging of Chubb's final year under his rookie deal with the cost of a tag is "voodoo economics".

The tag costs $12mm. His 4th year costs $1.48. Averaging them is a meaningless exercise in math.

@tour2ma said:

MKC weighs in on extending Chubb. It's actually a fairly reasonable take considering the source.

She raises the Franchise Tag specter... something we've not discussed here. I did not realize how inexpensive that alternative is.

I needed to read MKC's reply a little more closely as I thought $6mm/yr seemed low to franchise a RB... remembered Bell costing PTG alot more than that seasons ago.

MKC's averaging of Chubb's final year under his rookie deal with the cost of a tag is "voodoo economics".

The tag costs $12mm. His 4th year costs $1.48. Averaging them is a meaningless exercise in math.

@gumby73 said:

The attached links birthday is today. 2 years ago from today.

This all came about from a writer named Seth Wickersham of Espn (click "ESPN piece from this morning".. Sadly, most of the good comment section was deleted & closed with fans interpretation.. https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2019/1/24/18196310/lets-look-at-the-browns-guardrails-from-the-analytics-team

Team working in Silo's https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/250477

The first article does not really give an explanation between the red/blue dichotomy.  So, still a bit in the dark there. 

The second,  sort of, explains the silo concept as it applies to professional business management analysis.   (It seems mostly to be a self applicable caution to the GM) 

She raises the Franchise Tag specter... something we've not discussed here. I did not realize how inexpensive that alternative is.

Hey, Mary Kay: Will the Browns sign Nick Chubb to a contract extension this offseason? — Sean N., Chicago Ill.

Hey, Sean: Chubb is heading into the final year of his contract, and the Browns must decide if they’ll extend him or let him play out his rookie deal and then possibly franchise him him for 2022. The latter option would give them two more years of Chubb at an average of about $6.5 million to $7 million a year ($1.48 million for his 2021 base, and about $12 million for the 2022 franchise number) which would be a bargain for a running back of his caliber. Or, the Browns could decide to extend him this offseason and sign him to a creative deal that rewards Chubb but also protects the club.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/01/will-the-browns-extend-nick-chubbs-contract-this-offseason-hey-mary-kay.html

@the-gipper said:

A couple of things I wonder about here:

1.  What are a "red" and a blue?    Is a red a guy with red flags?

2. What does  "Do not Silo"  mean?

I also hate the whole "Churn the bottom of the roster"  concept.  It has always seemed to me to mean:   give the GM something to do after he has already put his best team together. 

The attached links birthday is today. 2 years ago from today.

This all came about from a writer named Seth Wickersham of Espn (click "ESPN piece from this morning".. Sadly, most of the good comment section was deleted & closed with fans interpretation.. https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2019/1/24/18196310/lets-look-at-the-browns-guardrails-from-the-analytics-team

Team working in Silo's https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/250477

@gumby73 said:

Yep! still have it ?...Now will winning and managing new Covid cap changes? Change any of Paul's building bible? 

Lot's of these reads seem to still be in place... Seemed like it took forever,, Well until a real coaching staff showed up ?

A couple of things I wonder about here:

1.  What are a "red" and a blue?    Is a red a guy with red flags?

2. What does  "Do not Silo"  mean?

I also hate the whole "Churn the bottom of the roster"  concept.  It has always seemed to me to mean:   give the GM something to do after he has already put his best team together. 

I don't remember seeing "Depo's Commandments" before. Love two of the items here...

• QB: Keep Investing - Hello, Kellen Mond...
• No Uncoordinated Leaks - gotta love a well-coordinated smokescreen...

@sdbacker80 said:

Of course and at some point it becomes cost prohibitive.  

the hypothetical posed was 4yr. 50M D Henry contract.  That is not cost prohibitive to me. 

The position IMO is more valuable to the Browns and we have a special player at that position. 
 

To me 4yr 50m would be doable and fair. Add that as extension to his current rookie contract and that puts you are age 30 where things can be reevaluated. Having Hunt will also help absorb some of the wear and tear. That said I rather like having a situation of how we are going to pay a bunch of good players then the usual crap we have been going through.

Lot's of these reads seem to still be in place... Seemed like it took forever,, Well until a real coaching staff showed up ?

@tour2ma said:

I'm getting the feeling we disagree....

I may not disagree if his agent goes crazy and his requests are nuts.  
 

And then I’d start to think what kind of player can we get for a fraction of that cost and hopefully get somewhat close but realistically under what we get with Chubb. Or better yet find the next guy in the draft. 
 

I actually enjoy watching Hunt run and catch the ball. 

@tour2ma said:

But the salary cap does...

Of course and at some point it becomes cost prohibitive.  

the hypothetical posed was 4yr. 50M D Henry contract.  That is not cost prohibitive to me. 

The position IMO is more valuable to the Browns and we have a special player at that position. 
 

@sdbacker80 said:

The blanket rule may not apply to us. 

But the salary cap does...

Teams like Buffalo/KC: RB value not so much... QB runs/ WR runs.  Short throws to WRs in space. 

The blanket rule may not apply to us. 

Is Chubb's performance amazing? Of course. Can we count on him beyond the 2022 season? Absolutely not.

Note, of course, that Ingram's plateau was extended only by the Saints platooning him with Kamara and limiting his pounding each year.  I'd propose that we could likely achieve Chubb productivity... ONLY ONLY ONLY by also extending Hunt and executing similar snap/carry limitations.  Chubb is not Derrick Henry/Eddie George - and that's a good thing.

@silver-slayer said:

Okay I'll try to be nice. 

Any chance of not extending chubb is the most insane chatter by completely inept minds imaginable. 

Dumbest talk I've ever thought I'd read.

There that's the nice version. 

And you succeeded... for the most part...

In the abstract I can agree with you. Chubb is a talented RB who I would love to have on my team.

However,  in reality you are not addressing the questions which are...

What is the value of even the best RB in today's, cap-saddled NFL and how easy are vet RBs to effectively replace with new ones on rookie deals?

To the latter I think I showed that it is not that hard. The former you avoided in your post. So I ask you...

Extending Chubb at what cost?

@silver-slayer said:

Okay I'll try to be nice. 

Any chance of not extending chubb is the most insane chatter by completely inept minds imaginable. 

Dumbest talk I've ever thought I'd read.

There that's the nice version. 

Welcome to the modern NFL that doesn't like to pay running backs. 

You're in for quite a shock.

Any chance of not extending chubb is the most insane chatter by completely inept minds imaginable. 

Dumbest talk I've ever thought I'd read.

There that's the nice version. 

@tour2ma said:

So $15mm/yr average?

And Baker? $25mm/yr?

Don't forget Teller... this year.

There goes your $50mm...

Aren't we rolling over 30 million this year?

@dutch-oven said:

I wouldn't be so sure of this Gunz...

Remember, for a moment Joe Flacco was the highest paid QB in the NFL. 

Well, it depends on what you want to consider as at the top.

Just going to go off the simple "average"

When Mahomes got 10/503 , Watson 4/156, Wilson 4/140 or Mahomes: 50.3, Watson 39, Wilson 35.

I could certainly be wrong, but I'll say that while Baker might end up in say Top 10 at the time, he won't go over 30. Sure still a whole lot and 20 more than currently, but putting it into perspective with Mahomes, 30 is 40% less.

And I think that it could work out either way for the Browns, but Berry did say no extension yet.