On another note, here are some good clips of Carlos Dunlap:

Aloysius said:

But he does seem like a very classy individual. I don't think scouts will find any character red flags with this guy.

Colt Hero

Come on Aloy....no running game (he was team leader in rushing) and he throws for 77% completion percentage? 77% for the season? are you kidding me? I'm not much on all-time stats in college but 77%,, I've never heard of that kind of percentage from a major University QB...It is crazy.

He passed VY in almost every category(including rushing) scoring, td passes etc....all-time leader in texas history

@ballpeen said:

I have seen two national championships in the last three years and while early, at this point, I like my chances for a 3rd in four.

The only question with Tim is can he play under center? That's it.

Word is this season he is going to play under center a good deal of the time. If he manages that, which i feel he will, watch him move up to the top of the 1st round.

Uh oh, we're going full on first name basis now eh?

I see a gleam in your eye Peens.

@inspecta said:

We did that this year.

(pass) (rush)

Statistics Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rating Att Yds Avg TD

2008 433 332 76.7 3,859 34 8 173.8 136 561 4.1 11

2007 424 276 65.1 3,303 22 18 139.2 114 492 4.3 4

2006 318 217 68.2 2,570 29 7 161.8 68 170 2.5 2

2008 OPPONENTS Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Yds/A Rating

Florida Atlantic 29 24 82.8 222 3 0 7.7 181.2

at Texas-El Paso 29 20 69.0 282 4 1 9.7 189.3

Arkansas (Sep. 13) -

Rice 23 19 82.6 329 4 0 14.3 260.2

Arkansas 19 17 89.5 185 3 0 9.7 223.4

at Colorado 30 23 76.7 262 2 2 8.7 158.7

at Oklahoma 35 28 80.0 277 1 0 7.9 155.9

Missouri 32 29 90.6 337 2 0 10.5 199.7

OK State 45 38 84.4 391 2 1 8.7 167.7

at Texas Tech 34 20 58.8 294 2 1 8.6 145.0(worst game...still drove field for go ahead score with 1:30 left to Safety dropped int b4 crab play

Baylor 37 26 70.3 300 5 2 8.1 172.2

at Kansas 34 24 70.6 255 2 0 7.5 153.0

Texas A&M 28 23 82.1 311 2 0 11.1 199.0

Ohio State 58 41 70.7 414 2 1 7.1 138.6

But he does seem like a very classy individual. I don't think scouts will find any character red flags with this guy.

Colt Hero

If Drive Assassin or Quinn work out, then I'd like to see Taylor Mays in the first and again, an OT and Guard by the 4th.

Aloysius said:

As for Tebow, that windup release is going to be an issue. During last year's LSU game, safety Harry Coleman was able to deflect a couple passes because he had so much time to break on the ball. And Coleman's not all that special a safety: imagine what guys like Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu will do to Tebow's game.

I've had the chance to watch him since he was a freshman and regardless of what the scouts say on arm strength, I say he has a great arm but more importantly accurate,consistent,evasive and makes big plays with feet when needed i.e doesn't take sacks but the most important to me is plays huge in big games, wins big games and is the epitomy of leader on and off field. If I have the #1 overall next year and I have ANY questions at QB he is my #1 overall pick without question....over Bradford.

Aloysius said:

Oops, OK. And he is about the best of the lot, fair to say. 'Cept maybe Vinny?

@ballpeen said:

I have seen two national championships in the last three years and while early, at this point, I like my chances for a 3rd in four.

The only question with Tim is can he play under center? That's it.

Word is this season he is going to play under center a good deal of the time. If he manages that, which i feel he will, watch him move up to the top of the 1st round.

You know that you can win a college game with that guy on your side. But then half those Heisman winning QBs that didn't do anything in the pros could win you a college game with them on your side. What does Tebow bring that Eric Crouch didn't? Not much if anything.

My point exactly about the NFL being a highly specialized game requiring ELITE skills. Way too much to ask for a blend of Tom Brady/Adrian Peterson in one human being.

It is...and homer tinted as well...but that is what I know. I know you can win with that guy on your side.

I have seen two national championships in the last three years and while early, at this point, I like my chances for a 3rd in four.

The only question with Tim is can he play under center? That's it.

Word is this season he is going to play under center a good deal of the time. If he manages that, which i feel he will, watch him move up to the top of the 1st round.

@solon16 said:

He's a great person and a good leader, but arm strength could be an issue. When he throws off his back foot, he gets almost nothing on the ball. That led to picks in the Oklahoma State and Kansas games (the one against Kansas was called back on a penalty). We'll see if he improves this year, but I expect he'll draw more interest from WCO teams.

As for Tebow, that windup release is going to be an issue. During last year's LSU game, safety Harry Coleman was able to deflect a couple passes because he had so much time to break on the ball. And Coleman's not all that special a safety: imagine what guys like Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu will do to Tebow's game.

@solon16 said:

Since I don't like Tebow much personally, and I don't want anyone to match Archie's dual Heisman record, I will vote for McCoy if he performs up to the standard he has set thus far.

(Past Heisman winners have a vote right?.....oh, wait, the Heisman Trophy wasn't instituted yet when The Gipper played ball....so I guess they won't let me vote )

Well, do you think if the Heisman had been instituted when George Gipp played that he would have won it?

The fact of the matter is you simply can't be a passing/running generalist and play QB in the NFL. The athletes you are facing are too big, too fast, too smart, too agile for a generalist. So, you have to be an ELITE passer. (Just read this board. ) What I'm telling you is there is no way you'll see the college ranks churn out 32 QB's who are both ELITE passers and ELITE running backs.

That's what's required. Vick was probably the closest we've seen and he didn't revolutionize anything AND there's only one of him.

I don't put Elway, Tarkington, Young, McNabb in that category. They are/were opportunistic runners. You aren't building a game plan that requires 5, 10, or more rushes from them in a game.

Again, I question if we'll ever see one, let alone many, QB's who are:

- ELITE passers

- ELITE rushers

- Durable enough to handle both roles

Not as long a the rules are what the rules are and guys like Ray Lewis, Polawannahaircut, and Mario Williams are on the other side of the line of scrimmage. The NFL requires specialists because of the extreme skill and ability of the athletes. College requires the same, albeit at a lesser level, so a Tebow can thrive at that level.

@inspecta said:

If you're gonna have a hybrid they better be good as hell in both aspects of the game, running and passing. That's what made Steve Young so dangerous, and Elway. Those were both great passers who wouldn't blink an eye taking the ball and running 20-25 yards down the field when all the DB's were down field in coverage.

It's funny we have this conversation because my buddy and I were talking about this in the late 90's (no shit). We talked about having an offense that consisted of having two QB's lining up in the backfield, both who could run and both who could pass. It would create fits for defenses. Imagine snapping to one QB who rolls out to the right with the defense in persuit, only to toss the ball back across the field (still behind LOS) back to your other QB, who then makes a snap decision to run the ball outright or pass the ball. Imagine having to chase that shit for 60 minutes as a defensive player? Of course execution would be essential. If the defense tries to take away the pass back to the other QB, then that means they have players dedicated to stopping your 2nd QB, which would leave the 1st QB free to run with it or pass the ball.

I have a notebook full of plays with this offense drawn up on it. Usually the formation is two QB's in the shotgun, with two TE and two WR, a pretty balanced formation. You can leave TE in to block to pick up blitzes, but this offense absolutely loves the blitz because it can beat the blitz with quick passes.

The one offense I do NOT like though is that A-11 bullshit that they're running in some high schools. It doesn't even look like the game of football and I thank God those formations are illegal in the NFL, and I pray they stay illegal.

Didn't the Ravens try a little of this sort of thing with Troy Smith and Fluke-o in the same backfield?

And, I suspect in Philly this year they may try some of it with McNabb and Vick.

@riffer-x said:

Pryor will be what Peens is talking about, but I don't see it becoming commonplace. Pryor is a freak.

OK, well a Mike Vick type QB can bring a team some success, but when was the last time a guy like that led his team to the Super Bowl? Win or lose.

I don't think you can call McNabb that type of QB. Certainly there have been mobile QBs, like McNabb, Steve Young, Elway and others, but really, your most successful winning QBs have been more the dropback type. Brady,P. Manning, E. Manning Warner, Big Gay Ben has escapability but he is no WildDawg type guy, and many others.

Yes, I think the pro game would have to change considerably to allow a Vick, Tebow, Pryor type QB to be the norm of a championship caliber QB.

@ballpeen said:

He is first round talent. It just depends on if a team is willing to be the trend setter and scrap all this "WildDawg" stuff and just make it the base O.

Someone is going to do it sooner or later, win, and then everyone is going to be looking for qbs who can fit the new wave of the NFL.

Nobody can tell me Tebow isn't first round talent.

Did i make you happy Alo??

I do admit he might not be drafted there, and that is a shame. If he is there in round 2, the Browns better take him. He is WAY better than ANY qb we have on our team.

He is going to work out from under center a good deal this year just to satisfy the needs of the old school football thinkers.

The era of the drop back QB is about done. You might as well catch the wave early because in 4-5 years, colleges won't have any drop back QBs to recruit.

I think that is highly speculative. Kiper, Scout.com, etc. etc. all these other services that have a decent track record don't rate him high on pro potential. I don't know if you are claiming that you know something they don't. Certainly they could be wrong. After all, we all go back to the proverbial "Tom Brady was only a 6th round pick" example to see where everyone missed on something. And of course the record of first round QB flops is legion. Still, where there is smoke their is fire.

Dawgfanforever88 said:

Right. I mean, in the past we have had these great college QBs whose game did not translate to the pros. Tommy Frazier and Eric Crouch from Nebraska come to mind.

And riddle me this: In the last 30 years here are the Quarterbacks who have won the Heisman Trophy:

Erich Crouch, Nebraska

Jason White, Oklahoma

Chris Weinke, FSU

Danny Wuerffel, Florida

Charlie White, FSU

Gino Torretta, Miami

Andre Ware, Houston

Matt Leinert, USC

Troy Smith, Ohio St.

Vinny Testaverde, Miami

Doug Flutie, Boston College

(plus Tebow and Bradford who are still in school)

The book is still out on Leinert and Smith who are now backups. All the others are now out of the game. Flutie had a somewhat spotty pro career (he was very underrated in fact).

The only quality pro of this bunch has been Vinny Interceptaverde....and he didn't get that nickname for nothing.

That means of course that the track record isn't good for Tebow and Bradford. Perhaps they will break out of the mold.

I personally think the Colt McCoy would be the prime QB candidate right now.

@jason-j said:

In Cinci's case, they may have been better off getting their future center in the 3rd round (Antoine Caldwell) and a pass rusher in the 4th (Victor Butler?). But I agree about picking up great tools guys on Day 2 (or 3...whatever it is now). That said, you want to avoid "don't give a sh*t" guys, like Alan Branch.

I've read articles taking both sides on Michael Johnson: some say he's soft, others claim he was playing with a sports hernia last year. Unfortunately, it's hard to get to the truth on any of this stuff.

I guess we'll get an answer on the field over the next few years.

@jason-j said:

But, I'm really interested to see Dunlap this season.

Me too. Also looking forward to watching the other 5-6 guys on that defense who could be future 1st round picks.

@greythan said:

The simple fact is that the NFL starting 11 on defenses are WAY too athletic for the "athletic" QB other than the rare exception.

Barring rule changes that change the complexity of the game, the QB's job remains passing the football. Plain and simple.

Hey Grey.......maybe so....but we aren't talking about not passing the ball.

Tebow passes the ball pretty darn well.

When you get down to it....passing out of a shotgun is a better system.

Look at it this way....on the games final play, do QB's up under center or in the gun??

I would assume that when a coach needs to make a passing play, he lines his QB in the position where he has the best chance for success.

A few of you may not be able to see it now.....but you will.

Pryor will be what Peens is talking about, but I don't see it becoming commonplace. Pryor is a freak.