@unsympathetic said:

Read this article - to the end - if you remain interested in thinking about ways to fix/improve Browns pass defense.

Fun fact: Redwine ended up rated below Sendejo last season.

“Coverage is coverage in the NFL. Who (man) or what (zone) you are asked to cover depends on your defensive coordinator. Safeties and linebackers can often to tasked with covering the same general positions on the offense: tight ends, running backs, and slot receivers.”

Yes and No

We saw times last season where our safeties were matched up against Outside WRs.  Maybe it was miscommunication.  I didn’t see Malcolm Smith or any other LB in the same predicament.  
 

I saw lots of opponent WRs running open and our defenders pointing fingers late in the season too.   
 

“coverage is a bigger priority than pass rush while noting the importance of both.”

Im curious here.  Not sure I believe this but I didn’t read their rationale yet.

Fun fact: Redwine ended up rated below Sendejo last season.

@orion said:

I would rather not create a need where one does not exist.  Being able to control a team's top flight receiver is huge in today's NFL.  We're trying to get to and win a superbowl here.  And that's a very important position...along with edge rusher, T, QB...

Obviously if the team can keep them all that is the answer. Just pointing out that there is no way to compare drop Greedy vs. Ward. 

@tour2ma said:

Holy Apples & Oranges, Batman!

• RBs rotate...
• DBs do not...
• In 3 years Chubb has missed 4 starts due to injury and 7 due to inHuey.
• In 3 years Ward has missed 12 starts due to injury.

Q.E.D.
 

Almost like running backs are more interchangeable than corners.

@bjh2130 said:

Nick chubb only played in 12 games this past year also. Looking at snap counts chubb highest percent of snap count the 3 years he's been here has been 69% of the offensive plays the lowest "hospital ward" has been on the field for defensive plays is 70% (this percentage includes the snaps/games due to injury)

Holy Apples & Oranges, Batman!

• RBs rotate...
• DBs do not...
• In 3 years Chubb has missed 4 starts due to injury and 7 due to inHuey.
• In 3 years Ward has missed 12 starts due to injury.

Q.E.D.
 

@sdbacker80 said:

And there’s no need.

1. You can’t pay everyone.  We paid Myles...if you want to Unpay him cut him or trade him and take the cap hit.  Go ahead do the math but  It’s over. 
2. Nick Chubb had a pretty significant knee injury and missed just 4 games. Prior to that 16 games and 16 games

3. He platoons...guess what so do other backs!!!  He also sets up our offense.  Right now we have a QB that hasn’t shown the ability to Patrick Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers us on his back.  So you probably need Nick.

4. He’ll likely ask for significantly less than Ward. 

We have no clue what ward will ask for.  Ward is from northern Ohio and grew up a browns fan. So are we just looking at the last 3 years or going back to college.  If we're worried about injuries reoccurring let's not forget chubb's major knee injury in college. My point about the snap count you proved for me. Backs platoon. If there was significant drop off chubb snap count would be higher. I want to sign both and find the money elsewhere say restructuring a wr or two. I'm not trying to discredit chubb. I'm trying to show the arguments made about ward can be made about everyone's favorite player. 

@londonbrown said:

I feel like you mic dropped when you stopped typing this reply 

And there’s no need.

1. You can’t pay everyone.  We paid Myles...if you want to Unpay him cut him or trade him and take the cap hit.  Go ahead do the math but  It’s over. 
2. Nick Chubb had a pretty significant knee injury and missed just 4 games. Prior to that 16 games and 16 games

3. He platoons...guess what so do other backs!!!  He also sets up our offense.  Right now we have a QB that hasn’t shown the ability to Patrick Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers us on his back.  So you probably need Nick.

4. He’ll likely ask for significantly less than Ward. 

@bjh2130 said:

Hospital ward has missed less games in his first 3 years than myles Garrett did. 

Nick chubb only played in 12 games this past year also. Looking at snap counts chubb highest percent of snap count the 3 years he's been here has been 69% of the offensive plays the lowest "hospital ward" has been on the field for defensive plays is 70% (this percentage includes the snaps/games due to injury)

I feel like you mic dropped when you stopped typing this reply 

@ballpeen said:

I agree.  Ward is a prime candidate to move on.  Hospital Ward misses a lot of games.  I think our offer is going to reflect that.  Some team will probably offer more.  It is what it is.

Hospital ward has missed less games in his first 3 years than myles Garrett did. 

Nick chubb only played in 12 games this past year also. Looking at snap counts chubb highest percent of snap count the 3 years he's been here has been 69% of the offensive plays the lowest "hospital ward" has been on the field for defensive plays is 70% (this percentage includes the snaps/games due to injury)

Chubb vs. Ward? RB is the easier position to replace, but have to remember Berry was in our FO when we released Joe Haden. So...

I have to believe if it comes to this choice, then the decision comes down to price and pipeline, i.e., who we either have or know we can get to replace whomever we part ways with. But...

With a relatively cheap option for Ward for 2022, i.e., exercising his 5th year option, I don't think keeping both thru 2022 will be hard to do.

@orion said:

I get that the league has devalued RB's for some years now.  It's a passing league.  But there's no RB in the league I'd rather have on my team (save a healthy Barkely).  He tosses the ball to the official when he scores a TD.  The man stepped out of bounds on the one yard line so the offense could line up in victory formation and run out the clock with possession of the ball.

Lastly, how could we look ourselves in the mirror if we were to let a player of Chubb's caliber and character leave...and we keep Kareen Hunt, with his history?

Chubb is the better pure runner. If I'm keeping one - it's him.

@tiamat63 said:

Bakers performance this year may or may not make Chubb expendable...  

The NFL doesn't prefer to pay RB's

I get that the league has devalued RB's for some years now.  It's a passing league.  But there's no RB in the league I'd rather have on my team (save a healthy Barkely).  He tosses the ball to the official when he scores a TD.  The man stepped out of bounds on the one yard line so the offense could line up in victory formation and run out the clock with possession of the ball.

Lastly, how could we look ourselves in the mirror if we were to let a player of Chubb's caliber and character leave...and we keep Kareen Hunt, with his history?

The NFL doesn't prefer to pay RB's, especially if you have a QB capable of shouldering the offense.  

@orion said:

Yup. 

- Does being a fan icon matter anymore?   Chubb is an offensive skill position player.  He's a model citizen and a model team mate.  To many, he's the favorite Browns player on the team.  Does that matter in the financial offices at Berea?  

He’s an ideal fit for our scheme too. 

There is like 58 boxes you check off with the guy 

@sdbacker80 said:

Having said all this you better have a good plan B for both guys...both would be difficult to replace. 

Yup. 

- Does being a fan icon matter anymore?   Chubb is an offensive skill position player.  He's a model citizen and a model team mate.  To many, he's the favorite Browns player on the team.  Does that matter in the financial offices at Berea?  

@londonbrown said:

I think this FO would choose to pay Ward over Chubb if it came to it (health permitting)

It comes down to asking price. 

This is a HUGE year for Ward.   Top 3 Corner money and another 12 games.  The Hammy, Groin and Concussion issues just don’t disappear as he gets older and he’s tackled more guys 30-50 pounds heavier than he is.

I’d pass. Knowing He’s a huge asset to this team. 

I’ve used Derrick Henry’s contract as an example with Chubb 4 yr. 50M.  it Should have been offered yesterday.  
 

Having said all this you better have a good plan B for both guys...both would be difficult to replace. 

@londonbrown said:

I think this FO would choose to pay Ward over Chubb if it came to it (health permitting)

i agree.

@gunz41 said:

So would you rather

I would rather not create a need where one does not exist.  Being able to control a team's top flight receiver is huge in today's NFL.  We're trying to get to and win a superbowl here.  And that's a very important position...along with edge rusher, T, QB...

@orion said:

Well, let's use that logic.  Greedy Williams has missed many more games than Ward, so let's ditch him.  And Delpit fits that bill.  Philips missed a bunch too...

It's tackle football......and the guys now-a-days wear these little shoulder pads and hardly any leg padding.  Guys are going to get hurt.

There is a big difference in Ward and Greedy though (which is what these guys are alluding to).

Ward is entering his final year on a rookie contract, in a year where the Top 2 guys that need to be extended are Baker and Chubb.

Ward is absolutely better than Greedy, but teams can't just keep everyone they want. Let's just say for the sake of argument that when healthy Ward is a Top 3 CB, that puts him at a minimum of 17.5 million (so 10 million more a year). For someone who plays 12 games a year. 

So would you rather have Ward at that price and Greedy for 1 more year after this season AT LEAST, or as an example Fuller AND Okudah (on rookie contract).

@ballpeen said:

Ward is a prime candidate to move on.  Hospital Ward misses a lot of games. 

Well, let's use that logic.  Greedy Williams has missed many more games than Ward, so let's ditch him.  And Delpit fits that bill.  Philips missed a bunch too...

It's tackle football......and the guys now-a-days wear these little shoulder pads and hardly any leg padding.  Guys are going to get hurt.