@lumbergh said:

That's one way of looking at it. It kind of looked to me like Quinn remembered throwing multiple TD passes on them as a wide eyed rookie without any training camp reps. It got so out of hand, RAC didn't want to have the refs review ANOTHER TD pass the replay was clearly showing. I think BQ felt like he was supposed to kneel down on the ball and show good sportsmanship instead of rubbing in how bad Detroit sucks.

I try to refrain from defining our starting QB by the Detroit barometer. I would hope everyone else is willing to raise the standard as well. That said, I don't recall DA throwing any TD passes on Detroit in 2007 or 2009.

- Tom F.

@lumbergh said:

Browns lose to Houston with backup QB: QUINN'S FINGER HURT!!!! IT'S NOT HIS FAULT!!!

Contrast that back to when Anderson tossed 5 TDs and was named NFL Player of the Week: WHEN IS QUINN GOING TO START??? BQ SHOULD START VS THE RAIDERS!!!

so stop trying to explain away your gay love of Quinn inspecta. It ain't even up for debate.

In all fairness I posted earlier Denver's defense stats and they were not the worst, second worst to Detroit. But Lum if you are going to compare BQs first 3 starts to DA's first 3 starts then you have to look at 2006 for DA. I posted the stats earlier for his first two games against Pittsburgh and Baltimore. I did not post his 3rd start stats but if I recall he threw 4 ints against Tampa Bay. But overall DA and BQ had very similar stats in their first 3 starts.

And know that if you throw the 5 TD game out there all anybody has to do is comeback with the 4 int day that he had when the playoffs were on the line. I said it earlier though, I think the problem is the number of passes that RAC and the OC called for. If you throw the ball 35 times a game you are going to get game planned for. Look at the games that DA managed (less than 25 passes), the Browns won them all.

And as I try and point out to BQ backers, you DO NOT HAVE TO BAD MOUTH the other QB to make a case for your choice. When talking about DA you can make a case for DA without mentioning BQ at all. Even in his bad streches I don't think DA was as bad as people are making it seem. There were lots of factors involved and the Qb was only one of them.

@lumbergh said:

*sigh* Let me remind you of DA's performance in the games prior to the Giants game and after.

Before

11/24 (45%) 114 yards, 1TD, 2 fumbles vs. DAL

18/32 (56%) 166 yards, 0TDs, 2INTs vs. PIT

14/37 (38%) 125 yards, 1TD, 3INTs, 1 fumble vs. BALT

15/24 (62%) 138 yards, 1TD, 1INT, 1 fumble vs. CINCY

After

14/37 (38%) 136 yards, 1TD, 1 fumble vs. WAS

@inspecta said:

Hell, we were all DA Fags after that game, myself included.

@inspecta said:

Browns lose to Denver (worst D in football): QUINN WAS AWESOME!!! BEST QB PERFORMANCE IN BROWNS HISTORY!!!!!

Browns lose to Houston with backup QB: QUINN'S FINGER HURT!!!! IT'S NOT HIS FAULT!!!

Contrast that back to when Anderson tossed 5 TDs and was named NFL Player of the Week: WHEN IS QUINN GOING TO START??? BQ SHOULD START VS THE RAIDERS!!!

so stop trying to explain away your gay love of Quinn inspecta. It ain't even up for debate.

@calfoxwc said:

Then, he DIDN'T look like a starter.

The cannon short throw that was almost into the feet of the receiver?

The bad overthrow?

DA is too inconsistent, and he's a long ball cannon.

His throwing motion doesn't seem to be dependable, to be polite, at all on short throws.

He doesn't run well, and is far less elusive that Bernie Kosar in his prime.

Quinn will end up being the starter, we'll see how he wins that job, or not, vs the Titans, who have the #8 defense

per a rating of all the teams I noticed online.

BTW, it was a list of the top 30 defenses.

Detroit wasn't even on the list...... @@

So, if Quinn shines, DA fades.

The part I put in bold sums up my feelings about DA. If he could play like he did on MNF against the Giants on a consistent basis, he'd be one of the top qbs in the NFL. However, I've seen way too many Cincinnati stinkers out of Anderson for my liking.

And FWIW, I'm no Quinn fag. If Brady plays poorly, he'll get exactly the same treatment from this corner.

Then, he DIDN'T look like a starter.

The cannon short throw that was almost into the feet of the receiver?

The bad overthrow?

DA is too inconsistent, and he's a long ball cannon.

His throwing motion doesn't seem to be dependable, to be polite, at all on short throws.

He doesn't run well, and is far less elusive that Bernie Kosar in his prime.

Quinn will end up being the starter, we'll see how he wins that job, or not, vs the Titans, who have the #8 defense

per a rating of all the teams I noticed online.

BTW, it was a list of the top 30 defenses.

Detroit wasn't even on the list...... @@

So, if Quinn shines, Da fades.

Masters said:

You guys are getting a little too excited here... Most of his passes were off the mark. And as usual, he DID rifle a short pass which was picked.

no TD's

@mario said:

Nothing like poor English followed by calling people homos. Way to fit a stereotype

You don't know that.

Oh, and just for general knowledge I am in support of DA to be the QB. I just think that all things being equal that the Browns must start BQ. We know what DA can do and if he can not beat out BQ then BQ should get a chance to see what he can do. Again if it is a tie or even near a tie then the Browns must start BQ.

And based on last night I would say that BQ did not hurt his chances of starting. He played under control and made some very nice passes that were called back because of penalties. DA played well also, enough to keep him in the discussion but I don't think he played well enough to keep BQ on the bench.

And I do not call people names, I try and give some support on why I think DA is a good QB. And I also try and put some perspective on things concerning BQ. But I don't think either QB sucks and with proper coaching I think they will both be successful. I can agree that DA did not progress enough but remember he had the same lousy coaches as BQ did.

And I will finally say that who cares about last year at this point. I want to see who ever will lead this team to wins. I came to this board and follow the Browns because DA was the starting QB but I enjoy the team and I enjoy most of the people on the board. And I don't like to see crap on the field anymore than anybody else. One of the Qbs needs to step up, if DA doesn't step up and step up big (he did not during the packer game) then the Browns must see what BQ can do and that is what I think they will end up doing.

@hoorta said:

Glad you brought up that sack Quinn took on his first play. Go watch the tape. Quinn had NO CHANCE to even unload the ball. Ahem, he COULD have just chucked it up there for grabs, like DA would have. Detroit sent the house up the middle, and to add insult (one of the tackles- it may have been Joe Thomas) totally whiffed on an outside rush.

Yes Anderson got hit, most notably when they replayed the hit he took on the incomplete to Royal in the end zone.

I didn't say anything about the sack, didn't see that play, but since you brought it up I do recall Kosar noting that Quinn failed to make blitz reads on several occasions.

As far as throwing it up for grabs with the blitz coming, let's hope that Quinn learned something after he nearly handed a pick 6 to Green Bay last week, because he's gonna get the shit blitzed out of him if he ever needs to come in and play.

@lumbergh said:

This year the Lions are expected to be better and yet the results for the Browns were reversed with DA starting.

And the Lions beat the Falcons last week, not the Chiefs.

I'll stand corrected about the Falcons. BUT- I was actually at BOTH preseason games (have a good friend that lives just north of Detroit). And FYI @ Ford Field, the Browns o-line forgot to get on the bus to Detroit. Quinn was getting killed on virtually every pass play.

Now let's fast forward to last Saturday. Did Anderson even get touched on any of his scoring drives? Known fact- DA normally looks great when he has all day to throw. But then again, so will any NFL quarterback short of Akilli Smith given bulletproof protection.

Glad you brought up that sack Quinn took on his first play. Go watch the tape. Quinn had NO CHANCE to even unload the ball. Ahem, he COULD have just chucked it up there for grabs, like DA would have. Detroit sent the house up the middle, and to add insult (one of the tackles- it may have been Joe Thomas) totally whiffed on an outside rush.

@timugen said:

It could have been worse. They could have lost to BQ in the preseason instead of crushing him.

@lumbergh said:

Better than 0-16?!?!?! Ummmm......How could they be worse?

Now all we have to do is bribe the league office to schedule us against 2 to 5-win teams for 16 games and DA will be a HOF'er.

@hoorta said:

Quinn started against the Lions last preseason (the season they actually were 0-16), he played the whole first half, and the team got crushed 26-6.

This year the Lions are expected to be better and yet the results for the Browns were reversed with DA starting.

And the Lions beat the Falcons last week, not the Chiefs.

@shepwrite said:

Anderson played well- against a team that went 0-16 last year and need a last second field goal first preseason game to beat an equally abysmal Chiefs team. As Flugel pointed out we've seen this version of DA- against the stiffs- that tends to give one false hope. If he had lit up the Titans like that, I'd be far more impressed.

FWIW, I actually showed up at the game, and Cribbs return of the opening kickoff for what should have been a TD took the fight out of Detroit, and after he returned the punt, the Lions rolled over and played dead. Sorry to inform Lums but Cribbs and Wright gift wrapped 10 of the Browns 20 first half points.

I have to say- if The Detroit Clunkers continue to play like this, Tampa's record of consecutive losses is in serious jeopardy- and Stafford absolutely sucked Saturday- I can guarantee you any 1\2 decent qb behind center for the Lions and it's not 20-3 at halftime. MS badly misfired on a couple of tosses that would have been easy touchdowns if he had connected.

Oh, Anderson looked sharper than usual- but still plenty of room for improvement. Like tossing what would have been a TD to Edwards out of bounds, and that Akilli Smith special WTF worm burner he uncorked. NO excuse for gift wrapping 3 for the Lions at the end of the half- and Mangini hinted as much.

ADDED EDITORIAL COMMENT Forgot to mention DA showed another of his all to frequently displayed annoying traits. He about got Massequoi killed tossing a pass that led him directly into a safety that took his head off.

The local radio pretty much toasted him- and one persuasive argument against DA that came out was when you're playing against really good defenses- can we say Steelers and Ravens- you're not going to get that many chances to score, and you had better make the most of every opportunity you get.

So let's celebrate- I have great hope this upcoming season there's probably a few teams in the NFL that are going to be even worse than the Browns.

@flugel said:

Quit being a pussy straddling the fence all of a sudden. You know darn well you declared DA was not the answer after you inventoried popular opionion last Fall (immediately following Quinn's 2nd start that produced 30 points). I believe the purpose of your post was to declare "Quinn is the starter period." Ring a bell? Then magically, someone with administrative powers removed such a thread when I archived it 1 time too many this Spring. I'm sure if it ever resurfaces - it'll be all edited so you can maintain your straddle at the top of the fence.

WTF happened to you?

- Tom F.

CLE 14 36 185 0 0 23 4 18 0 12 Those are the stats from the Buffalo game that produced 29 points. A 72 yard run by harrison, 5 FGS by Dawson and a 2 yard run by Josh Cribbs.

1st FG started on the Buffalo 49

2nd FG started on the Buffalo 12

3rd FG started on the Cleveland 37 and got 37 yards of offense then FG

4th FG started on Cleveland 43

5th FG started on Cleveland 33 and got 28 yards of offense before the FG

In 13 possessions the Browns went 3 and out 4 times, had one possession of 4 plays for minus 4 yards and 4 other possessions that produced 37 yards or fewer and of course one that was 2 plays because they were running the clock out. And know that the position that BQ got the Browns into to win the game was a 56 yard FG and if the Bills would have hit a 47 yard FG at the end of the game then the Browns would not have won that game.

I appreciate that you do not think DA is the answer but I don't think I would use the Buffalo game as a example of why BQ should start. If DA had played this game and did what BQ did all you would say is that he had left a ton of points on the board and that Dawson bailed DA out, but because it is BQ you use it as an example of why he should start.

3 - 13 on third down - 4.9 yards per pass - and a Qb rating of 55.9 and Buffalo finished at 7 - 9 (below .500) and the Browns played them when on a downward spiral in the middle of a 2 - 8 finish. I just putting that in there since you like to talk about beating the patsies of the league.

And just for fun, when BQ lead the Browns to the defeat to the Broncos the Broncos were in the middle of a spiral of their own going 4 - 7 the last 11 games and finishing at 8 - 8. The Broncos had the 29th ranked defense, gave up the 26th most yards per game passing and gave up an average QB rating of 98.5. But with that said BQ is not the reason the Browns lost to the Broncos it was the defense falling apart. Though 4th quarter possessions for the Browns, Punt, fumble by Winslow on 3rd and 6, Nice drive for TD (3 short passes taken for good YAC) and then 4 and out on the potential game winning drive.

Nobody should think BQ played poorly against Denver. He didn't, he played really well. But they are a .500 ball club with a horrible defense and when it came to the game winning drive that started on the Cleveland 33 yard line BQ was 1 - 4 for 9 yards. I just am trying to imagine how allot of people would have spun this game if it was DA at the helm. And yes I know that it was BQs first start and I already said he played really well and defense is what lost this game. Just wanted to throw some stats out there to look at.

And just to be fair I believe DAs first start was against Pittsburgh in 2006 which I am pretty sure had a little better defense than the 2008 Broncos. So here are his stats for that game:

CLE 21 37 276 1 1 45 1 4 0 4

And his second start against the Ravens:

CLE 23 32 223 2 2 36

The Browns lost both of those games.

I think that BQ will start this year for Cleveland. I am just trying to put a little perspective on things.

Zombo said:

Oh well ... I'm still friends with Shep and Rif and a lot of the guys ... and Flugel and I will be just fine ...

Zombo

--Brady's a good kid ... I really do root for him too ... I guess when you support two Browns who play the same position you're a pole sitter, or in Flugel's words a "pussy" ....

LOL! We're cool Zombo - always have been. It's training camp so I thought we could both use a little tuneup today. You didn't get much of a fight from Poor Soupdawg last week. Right Soupdawg? Soupdawg? Has anyone seen that poor guy since last weekend?

- Tom F.

mz. said:

I'm trying to picture the smugness that a little Lums would have. All I can think of is David Spade/Paris Hilton at 18/Micheal J Fox circa Family Ties.....Oh, and with some redneck homophobia incorporated in there.

Don't worry, Spect will get him straightened out.