@sdbacker80 said:

Drive number 3 and 5 were both Run, Run Pass. The point being Raiders loading the box on predicted run downs and Setting the Browns up for 3rd and unmanageable.

The issue with making it that cut and dry is that the Raiders have been a single high team all year, even when they're getting absolutely bombed on.   Look no further than their last game against KC.  It's what Abrams does best, and it can be exploited to great effect when you have the offense to do it.  

Browns rushes + screens = 23 plays for 259 yards
Browns passes - screens = 40 plays for 138 net yards (plus four picks)

@tiamat63 said:

Really not trying to pick on you, but I went back and started looking at snaps for run/pass breakdowns.

1st drive 
-------------
2nd down pass
3rd down pass

1st down pass

2nd drive
--------------
2nd down pass

Next set conversion

1st down pass
2nd down pass
3rd down pass/screen

3rd drive
---------------
run
run
pass 
punt

4th drive
--------------------
1st down pass
3rd down pass/screen

5th drive
-------------------
run
screen
pass
punt

7th drive
-------------------

1st down pass

2nd & goal pass

*chubb started breaking off chunk runs*

9th drive
-----------------

3rd down pass conversion

Chubb on 1st and 2nd downs both sets

3rd down pass conversion
2nd down pass
3rd down pass

3rd down pass
4th down pass

The in-between was pretty mediocre, but at the same time if you don't lean on what you know, even with heavy box counts, then you're still going to get the "RUN THE DAMN BALL NO MATTER WHAT"... type crowd.

Point being, I'm highlighting that the play calling wasn't anywhere near as vanilla in terms of 'run, run, pass' as you may have initially believed.

And until we get a good QB and a WR who can reliably own 1 on 1's, we'll never be able to run the sight adjust and PRO work like a team such a Green Bay does.

Drive number 3 and 5 were both Run, Run Pass. The point being Raiders loading the box on predicted run downs and Setting the Browns up for 3rd and unmanageable.

Second half I thought was a little better (the line settled in a little more too) They kept that outside zone going on the one drive that lead to a TD that you wanted them to abandon.

We were very predictable in the Raiders game to the point I questioned whether a guy like Abrams was stealing plays. I listened to the first half on NFL XM radio- those guys certainly weren’t kind on our calls and you would have thought Abrams was the second coming of Ronnie Lott.

Screen shot of Drive 5 here.

FYI I’m not a run the ball at all cost guy.  I’m a find ways to get Chubb the ball (fabulous job most of time yesterday here). I’m also a guy that believes you need keep the safety honest that sometimes means taking the top of the defense and making him turn and run a couple times each half.

When the box is loaded as it has been lately.  I want Chubb and Hunt/Johnson still getting touches but out on the perimeter.  Or in the first Raven game (screen passes).  I think we had one that entire game that was setup beautifully but Baker ended up  Charlie Browning it.

But I think we agree we need a new signal caller and a #1 WR that can consistently win the one on ones 

@sdbacker80 said:

Offensive Play calling was no better throughout most of the game. Raiders brought a safety up telegraphed it and did it consistently and we run into it.  How many times did you see Run… run…and then pass on third down?  

Really not trying to pick on you, but I went back and started looking at snaps for run/pass breakdowns.

1st drive 
-------------
2nd down pass
3rd down pass

1st down pass

2nd drive
--------------
2nd down pass

Next set conversion

1st down pass
2nd down pass
3rd down pass/screen

3rd drive
---------------
run
run
pass 
punt

4th drive
--------------------
1st down pass
3rd down pass/screen

5th drive
-------------------
run
screen
pass
punt

7th drive
-------------------

1st down pass

2nd & goal pass

*chubb started breaking off chunk runs*

9th drive
-----------------

3rd down pass conversion

Chubb on 1st and 2nd downs both sets

3rd down pass conversion
2nd down pass
3rd down pass

3rd down pass
4th down pass

The in-between was pretty mediocre, but at the same time if you don't lean on what you know, even with heavy box counts, then you're still going to get the "RUN THE DAMN BALL NO MATTER WHAT"... type crowd.

Point being, I'm highlighting that the play calling wasn't anywhere near as vanilla in terms of 'run, run, pass' as you may have initially believed.

And until we get a good QB and a WR who can reliably own 1 on 1's, we'll never be able to run the sight adjust and PRO work like a team such a Green Bay does.

@sdbacker80 said:

I’m assessing the Conklin situation but I’m not drafting another lineman in the first round. We have enough money and draft capital invested there.  2nd day plus a free agent if we move on from Conklin.

Im looking at Garret Wilson. Hands…body control… catch radius…YAC ability… body control…checks them all.  And if he’s gone I’m looking at an interior defender, DT, MLB, S. 

And It is time to draft a kicker and a punter.  8 picks + young roster + big need= do it.  

Yeah, I would hope Penning would last til the second round. /But with injuries and covid...a guy who can

flip to either tackle spot would be priceless. Wilson is terrific, may very well go top ten or so. I don't believe he will be there. But in this class, I want a bigger wr that is still explosive, strong at the 50/50 throws, and has legit speed to get yacs. 6'3 or so I think.

I keep going back to Jalen Tolbert, S. Alabama.......

Yep. Need kicker. Our punter can kick it far, but as far as placing it...nope.

@calfoxwc said:

with Clowney out, and Garrett coming up hurt fighting another flagrant HOLD... NO CALL....

I was also really proud of their fight.

But when they needed a first down, who cares if they made the raiders use timeouts?

Three straight plays when the raiders knew they wanted to try to run out the clock with runs?

Was Stefanski calling the plays remotely? lol.

dammit.

The other problem is, without Landry... they were going to have trouble.

    I'm going to be drafting a WR for the Browns in my stupid mock draft - probably second round.

It's way too early, but.... I thinking Tevor Penning, Swing OT, in the first round. The reason is, he will be a big time player in the NFL, and it isn't a great OT class, im my dumb opinion.

I know - wr, etc. But it is a great draft, very deep in wr's. It depends on whether Conklin stays with the Browns or

moves on.

     As far as wr's go, definiately second round.

Names to watch -

Romeo Doubs, Nevada.

Jalen Tolbert, S. Alabama, WR

but it's too early. Just disappointed that the Browns' kicker can't make the field goal twice. Can't get a first down. etc etc etc.

I’m assessing the Conklin situation but I’m not drafting another lineman in the first round. We have enough money and draft capital invested there.  2nd day plus a free agent if we move on from Conklin.

Im looking at Garret Wilson. Hands…body control… catch radius…YAC ability… body control…checks them all.  And if he’s gone I’m looking at an interior defender, DT, MLB, S. 

And It is time to draft a kicker and a punter.  8 picks + young roster + big need= do it.  

I was also really proud of their fight.

But when they needed a first down, who cares if they made the raiders use timeouts?

Three straight plays when the raiders knew they wanted to try to run out the clock with runs?

Was Stefanski calling the plays remotely? lol.

dammit.

The other problem is, without Landry... they were going to have trouble.

    I'm going to be drafting a WR for the Browns in my stupid mock draft - probably second round.

It's way too early, but.... I thinking Tevor Penning, Swing OT, in the first round. The reason is, he will be a big time player in the NFL, and it isn't a great OT class, im my dumb opinion.

I know - wr, etc. But it is a great draft, very deep in wr's. It depends on whether Conklin stays with the Browns or

moves on.

     As far as wr's go, definiately second round.

Names to watch -

Romeo Doubs, Nevada.

Jalen Tolbert, S. Alabama, WR

but it's too early. Just disappointed that the Browns' kicker can't make the field goal twice. Can't get a first down. etc etc etc.

Let’s go to late game calls and execution…What about the offense needing 10 yards in 3 plays?  And then the defense allowing pass catchers to get out of bounce and our safeties playing 25 yards deep on 7/8 yard check downs to get in range for that field goal.  
 

Offensive Play calling was no better throughout most of the game. Raiders brought a safety up telegraphed it and did it consistently and we run into it.  How many times did you see Run… run…and then pass on third down?  We saw Chubb having very little room to operate under those conditions and Mullens too.  It is 3rd and 6/7/8. That’s a pass play most of the time.  A positive though on our second TD loved the calls when we got down inside the 10.  Play action on second down when the raiders were begging for it and then 3rd and goal you go to Chubb on the outside zone play that got you down to that area. We may have come away empty handed with Stef calling plays this year. 
 

I appreciate the effort having 18 guys out, especially some guys on offense and by and large the entire defense but we missed our own opportunities. 

7-7 this year. With very few moments of complimentary football played.  If it wasn’t the defense early it was the offense playing horribly of late, or the coaches with the suspect calls and game plans, or the penalties some self inflicted others just questionable BS garbage from the referees.  And then we get a chance to move into first place and we go into the biggest game of the year with 18 guys out!!!  A shit ton of opportunities we have flushed away this year. I’m still sick to my stomach 16 hours later. 

Murphy’s law this year.  I have to imagine next year is better…at least I hope…and it is onto next year fellas.  We missed the shot we had. 

@orion said:

The team with the best kicker won.  It truly was a heartbreaking loss because we HAD them beat.  We needed one more little piece of magic from Nick Chubb on the 3rd and 3.  But there was no blocking where the play was designed to go.  Now it's 4th & 5 and we HAD to give the ball back.  Even if we coulda' got a couple of yards to give us 4th &1...we could run a QB sneak to win the game.  Or we could LOOK like we're doing that and try to draw them offsides.  Maan, we were Soo close to saving our season...

I told my friend group, it felt like if we had 2-3 guys back (and not even at the QB position), we win that dang game. Specifically, if we could have just gotten back one more DB and Wills I feel like this one was in the bag.

Anyway ya'll, got the whole family coming for the holidays through new year. We're hosting christmas this year too, so won't be around the board next two weeks. really looking forward to watching the game with my old man, we don't get too many chances to do that anymore. Stay safe and happy holidays!

That Z motion is very rage in the NFL. And when we sent Felton or Schwartz to move, we often did it to drag a defender and run to that weakside.  A nice little counter punch to that is the motion, show the OZ the other way then back to the motioned receiver on a screen.   Especially against a defense that is determined to fly downhill at anything. 

I remembered a play just as I described it from when tOSU played Penn State in 2007.

Starts at the 52 second mark. 

Would be nice to see the offensive coaching staff work that misdirection screen game to help take some burden off the running game and further working the horizontal passes.

I specifically mention Young Shanahan because he's the best in the business that designing and calling plays like this.

but I think there was a missed play call on our last drive when we were done close right after we ran over the right side for a nice gain we tried to run again the right side of your nose a player to later when if we kept it is if the quarterback and kept it on a bootleg he would’ve walked into the end zone and probably still be walking nobody was honoring that play at all they were rock busy crashing down behind the zone blocking scheme as Abram to early on in April had more recognition I think then it’s substitute opportunity missed otherwise pretty game effort considering the number of players number starters for missing no I said could’ve been a wonderful story and turn instead turned out to be more than a little heartbreak but we had our chances I think there was a play calmest  Trinity.

@atom said:

just heard that Bitonio is gonna start at tackle so i am assuming that Hance will start at guard which is his natural position 

Nervous before we draft of the top Antonio could do the job and left tackle to remember him saying he wanna know part of left tackle will he look pretty good tonight.Nervous before we draft of the top Antonio could do the job and left tackle to remember him saying he wanna know part of left tackle will he look pretty good tonight.

@tiamat63 said:

Interesting about that- the OZ almost always came off that motion either by Felton or Schwartz to trips in an attempt to drag any + defender from the weakside.  A nice wrinkle. 

The problem is our nice wrinkles and drives stalled out far too much in the 1st half.  Even a FG makes this a W, and that's what hurts. 

The game literally came down to their kicker was able to make a 48 yard field goal at the end of the second half, where ours could not make a 48 yard field goal at the end of the first half. 

@sdbacker80 said:

They kept that wide zone run though successfully.

Abrams has his nose in the backfield every play…time to exploit that 

Interesting about that- the OZ almost always came off that motion either by Felton or Schwartz to trips in an attempt to drag any + defender from the weakside.  A nice wrinkle. 

The problem is our nice wrinkles and drives stalled out far too much in the 1st half.  Even a FG makes this a W, and that's what hurts. 

@bigbambo said:

I told yo so....ha ha

Asswipe.

@tiamat63 said:

But Stewart is arguably the worst nickel in the NFL.

watched Rogers do the same with Robert Jackson vs. tRavens..

@texasag1969 said:

They had every reason to not show up. I love a team that never quits!!

can't agree more with this post ^ ^

the simple answer?

1) We left the winning points in the 1st half..

2) we left to many plays get away from us, in the same half..

needed 4 quarters today....(but damn that last FG could have been good from?  _55?__

sickening ending..

@bigbambo said:

I told yo so....ha ha

You sound happy about that.   Why are you on here ?

@orion said:

The team with the better kicker won.

THAT'S   why you need a good *predictable kicker...edit.....NO *DEPENDABLE !

........or the BROWNS' would be doing the interview now.

But this team played it's ass off, great effort by the Browns. The Raiders are the worst 7-7 ever. 

~ MERRY CHRISTMAS ? GUYS ~

@d-bone said:

Simply got into our offense too late. Good game from the replacement team though. You guys played hard. 

They had every reason to not show up. I love a team that never quits!!