@ballpeen said:

I don't blame baker for that.  Players always want to play.  I blame Stefanski for that.  The coach should have shut down the player.

Yep. I cringed when Baker was allowed, cleared, and went out there. Dang, that inspired the guys on the team.

But it didn't work much. They didn't let Keenum play until they were out of the playoffs. Baker has the heart and soul of a champion.

But injured? I would never have let him play that first game - I would have let Keenum play the rest of the season.

   I actually had no idea Keenum was undrafted back in 2012, ten years ago, and he's only as tall as Baker....

***********************************************

but, interesting to note - the Browns haven't had a very good cast of receivers for years. The Bengals are soaring into the Superbowl with an excellent cast of wr's.

Bernie Kosar said it back in 2010. He knows.what he's talking about - all the way up to today - the Browns haven't drafted wr's well.

Only Schwartz may turn out to be a star, but he was only a starter the last game. The Browns may very well draft two wr's in the next draft... lol.

https://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/2010/09/bernie_kosar_on_the_browns_off.html

@jbluhm86 said:

I would've respected Baker alot more this year if he shut it down for the year after 1-2 games after he got hurt, at the most? Would we still have sucked with Keeum playing instead of Baker? Maybe, maybe not. But by Baker being stubborn and playing while he's obviously hurt bad, he cost us several games. If he would've shut it down and had surgery earlier, he'd be well on the road to recovery and had ample time to prepare for the '22 season and nobody would really have much to burn him for. All he accomplished by being stubborn and playing through the injury was that he got himself hurt worse and hurt his team.

I don't blame baker for that.  Players always want to play.  I blame Stefanski for that.  The coach should have shut down the player.

@katfan4ever said:

Baker had no choice. What part of "Drs. cleared Baker to play do you refuse to acknowledge? If I hurt myself at work but my doctor clears me to work, I'll be at work. He's getting paid to play. He'll be back for mini camps healthy!

Since you're new here.. We've been down this road a bunch of times already.  Being "cleared to play" only meant he probably wouldn't damage the already damaged shoulder further if he did play.  That absolutely doesn't mean he'd play up to his pre-injury level.  And in fact he didn't.  I've pointed out in his last six games he had QBRs below 60 in four of them. That blows dead worms. 

FWIW, I could argue even mediocre quarterback play and the Browns beat the Steelers the second time around. Baker's 42% completion rate, 53 QBR, and standing around like a piñata for Watt and company  to kill him wasn't too smart.  

@jbluhm86 said:

I would've respected Baker alot more this year if he shut it down for the year after 1-2 games after he got hurt, at the most? Would we still have sucked with Keeum playing instead of Baker? Maybe, maybe not. But by Baker being stubborn and playing while he's obviously hurt bad, he cost us several games. If he would've shut it down and had surgery earlier, he'd be well on the road to recovery and had ample time to prepare for the '22 season and nobody would really have much to burn him for. All he accomplished by being stubborn and playing through the injury was that he got himself hurt worse and hurt his team.

Baker had no choice. What part of "Drs. cleared Baker to play do you refuse to acknowledge? If I hurt myself at work but my doctor clears me to work, I'll be at work. He's getting paid to play. He'll be back for mini camps healtyy!

@calfoxwc said:

Burrow is outstanding - but the Browns beat them twice last year, and twice this year.

Baker isn't as tall, can't run like Burrow, yep.

But the Browns can win with Baker. If Baker had Ja"marr Chase, Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd to throw to -

and hadn't gotten hurt - I can imagine the Browns would have been in the playoffs again and advanced.

The addition of Chase made their offense explosive. Even last year, Burrow had excellent stats, but they drafted 7th overall for reasons.

The Browns can win with Baker - but Pluto is correct about addition a star WR to the Browns' offense.

Stop making excuses for Baker, he had the WR’s , defense’s knew to keep him in the pocket where he couldn’t see past the first option, then bat the ball back in his face. Bottom line- Baker fucking blows!!

@jrb12711 said:

Yep- as I said in a previous thread it's amazing how sucking at the right time impacts a team's history. Joey Brrr was a slam dunk number one pick for a team who needed a QB. On top of that, you have in some ways a homegrown kid who wants to be there. Then, COVID and all that dictates Chase for all intents and purposes falling into Cincy's lap as well. Dude is just a winner on top of all that too.

While you can underestimate coaching, development etc, this dude was gonna be elite no matter where we went. Of course, it fucking figures it's a team we play twice a year right as the dude who owned the Browns in Pitt retires. 

LOL You must have listened to Rizzo this morning.

He went on to say that this kid from Ohio kicked our asses for 18yrs. has finally retired, and now I gotta put up with another kid from Ohio! @#$% ...for how many years??? 

Although Burrow hasn't kicked the Browns asses...yet.

Baker isn't as tall, can't run like Burrow, yep.

But the Browns can win with Baker. If Baker had Ja"marr Chase, Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd to throw to -

and hadn't gotten hurt - I can imagine the Browns would have been in the playoffs again and advanced.

The addition of Chase made their offense explosive. Even last year, Burrow had excellent stats, but they drafted 7th overall for reasons.

The Browns can win with Baker - but Pluto is correct about addition a star WR to the Browns' offense.

@tiamat63 said:

I said it before and ill say it again- Joe Burrow is the easiest QB eval I've done since Andrew Luck.  

Hurts to see him in Cincy and not CLE - where the bastion of Buckeye support is.

Yep- as I said in a previous thread it's amazing how sucking at the right time impacts a team's history. Joey Brrr was a slam dunk number one pick for a team who needed a QB. On top of that, you have in some ways a homegrown kid who wants to be there. Then, COVID and all that dictates Chase for all intents and purposes falling into Cincy's lap as well. Dude is just a winner on top of all that too.

While you can underestimate coaching, development etc, this dude was gonna be elite no matter where we went. Of course, it fucking figures it's a team we play twice a year right as the dude who owned the Browns in Pitt retires. 

@jbluhm86 said:

If Baker doesn't ball out next year, he's done. Browns were better in almost every position and coaching than the Bengals this year except QB [edit: and WR] and the Bengals are in the Super Bowl while Browns nation is sitting here talking about "what if".

@dutch-oven said:

It's frustrating that the Browns do a tank job, end up with the #1 overall pick and end up with Baker Mayfield, while the Bengals do the same and end up with Joe Burrow. 

The difference between the two outcomes of tank jobs is, IMO, going to be felt for a decade plus. 

Of course, with growth in coaching, it's entirely possible to run into a situation like what we saw with SF vs GB.

Packers have a superior QB and individual receiver, but Niners have better trench play, a complete receiving corps, and better coaches. 

The majority of the time good sense dictates having the better QB.  But Kyle Shanahan was 4 points away from going 2 of the last 3 to the SuperBowl with Jimmy G under center.

You don't *NEED* Joe Burrow, but damn it, the smartest path with the most return chances squarely tends to rest on a great QB.

Rams win because of their line play.  The rest may very well get more headlines but when it's time for the phrase "the straw that stirs the drink" that's OL and DL.

@gumby73 said:

Browns spend 124.3M on offense..Defense 65.6M.... QB's 27.2M....Offensive Line..47.2M*

Bengals spend 67.1M on offense.. Defense 85.5M.... QB's  9.8M......Offensive Line..20.9M*

Burrow's OL looks as bad as the Seattle SB runs...It's not bothered Burrow 1 iota.. Oddly..they must have backed OBJ's salary out? Says we match the WR Bengals around 19M  

https://overthecap.com/positional-spending/

FWIW, Burrow did a couple Houdini acts to avoid getting sacked, and turned them into first downs.  Raise your hand if you think Baker could have done the same...  

Ben retires, and now we have to deal with Joe for the next 10 years, barring injury.   Bet the Bengals pick in the upcoming draft is going to be OL.... 

@d-bone said:

I don't see Hooper or Landry on the Browns next year. 

You may be correct. I like Jay Rose, University of Connecticut in a late round

@gumby73 said:

Browns spend 124.3M on offense..Defense 65.6M.... QB's 27.2M....Offensive Line..47.2M*

Bengals spend 67.1M on offense.. Defense 85.5M.... QB's  9.8M......Offensive Line..20.9M*

Burrow's OL looks as bad as the Seattle SB runs...It's not bothered Burrow 1 iota.. Oddly..they must have backed OBJ's salary out? Says we match the WR Bengals around 19M  

https://overthecap.com/positional-spending/

It hurts the Browns' cap space for not drafting their wide receivers. Obj and Landry were about 14 million or more each, and hooper gets big money this coming season. The Bengals drafted all three of their starting wr's - Boyd, Tee Higgins and Ja'Marr Chase. Paying top money to get a big name wr costs a lot more. And the Bengals would LOVE to have the Browns' offensive line. I just wonder if Hooper and Landry fit into their plans for next year, they cost so much.

Bengals- Jonah Williams and a patchwork line around him.  They needed a lineman but took a WR in the top 10.  
 

Rams- traded away every pick they own for veterans to complete their roster all this happened after aggressively going after a QB in the offseason.  Their old QB played in a SB for them a couple seasons ago. 

@dutch-oven said:

The Bengals are significantly better at the WR position too, but I get your overall point. 

Browns spend 124.3M on offense..Defense 65.6M.... QB's 27.2M....Offensive Line..47.2M*

Bengals spend 67.1M on offense.. Defense 85.5M.... QB's  9.8M......Offensive Line..20.9M*

Burrow's OL looks as bad as the Seattle SB runs...It's not bothered Burrow 1 iota.. Oddly..they must have backed OBJ's salary out? Says we match the WR Bengals around 19M  

https://overthecap.com/positional-spending/

@jbluhm86 said:

If Baker doesn't ball out next year, he's done. Browns we're better in almost every position and coaching than the Bengals this year except QB, and the Bengals are in the Super Bowl while Browns nation is sitting here talking about "what if".

The Bengals are significantly better at the WR position too, but I get your overall point. 

@tiamat63 said:

I said it before and ill say it again- Joe Burrow is the easiest QB eval I've done since Andrew Luck.  

Hurts to see him in Cincy and not CLE - where the bastion of Buckeye support is.

If Baker doesn't ball out next year, he's done. Browns were better in almost every position and coaching than the Bengals this year except QB [edit: and WR] and the Bengals are in the Super Bowl while Browns nation is sitting here talking about "what if".

@tiamat63 said:

I said it before and ill say it again- Joe Burrow is the easiest QB eval I've done since Andrew Luck.  

Hurts to see him in Cincy and not CLE - where the bastion of Buckeye support is.

It's frustrating that the Browns do a tank job, end up with the #1 overall pick and end up with Baker Mayfield, while the Bengals do the same and end up with Joe Burrow. 

The difference between the two outcomes of tank jobs is, IMO, going to be felt for a decade plus. 

Hurts to see him in Cincy and not CLE - where the bastion of Buckeye support is.

@axe said:

My bad, Thought we were talking SBs

thats cool axe but you know things happen in 3 

@atom said:

flacco won a champoinship game in collage ? i didnt know that 

My bad, Thought we were talking SBs

@axe said:

Flacco

flacco won a champoinship game in collage ? i didnt know that