@lodilobo said:

I don't get how anyone could seriously compare Baker to Manziel. Baker showed me more talent in his first series against the Jets, in his first game, than Manziel ever showed. I know it's fashionable to bash Mayfield around here, but I'm not sure why. Baker played bad the last half of the 2021 season...maybe due to injury, or maybe due to a confidence problem. He's gotten the blame for everything wrong with the Browns. His season was very similar to the season Lamar Jackson had. Yet a lot of people still consider Jackson an elite qb. Why does he get a free pass ? I'm a Browns fan...not necessarily any loyalty to any one player. But, I think Baker still has the talent, the potential, and the arm to win a Superbowl here. I'm hoping the injuries were fully responsible for the way he played this past season. If it is a loss of confidence, we may as well cut him right now. It wouldn't be the first time this team has ruined the future of a decent qb.

Because Baker isnt the right skin color...

@lodilobo said:

I don't get how anyone could seriously compare Baker to Manziel. Baker showed me more talent in his first series against the Jets, in his first game, than Manziel ever showed. I know it's fashionable to bash Mayfield around here, but I'm not sure why. Baker played bad the last half of the 2021 season...maybe due to injury, or maybe due to a confidence problem. He's gotten the blame for everything wrong with the Browns. His season was very similar to the season Lamar Jackson had. Yet a lot of people still consider Jackson an elite qb. Why does he get a free pass ? I'm a Browns fan...not necessarily any loyalty to any one player. But, I think Baker still has the talent, the potential, and the arm to win a Superbowl here. I'm hoping the injuries were fully responsible for the way he played this past season. If it is a loss of confidence, we may as well cut him right now. It wouldn't be the first time this team has ruined the future of a decent qb.

@orion said:

Actually, I think we do know.  He was last in first out.  He didn't do X's and O's.  He didn't do film study.  He was gonna be the bum that he turned out to be.  Bad pick.  We paid Parcells 100K to evaluate the QB options and part of his report was, 'just don't draft Manziel'.  But Jimmuh had to have him.  The shiny thing that would give the Browns notoriety, he thought.  Didn't matter that the football people didn't want him.  

The only thing sad or unfortunate about the entire situation was the Browns wasted a first rounder on Manziel. There was nothing surprising about how it went down. 

@orion said:

Actually, I think we do know.  He was last in first out.  He didn't do X's and O's.  He didn't do film study.  He was gonna be the bum that he turned out to be.  Bad pick.  We paid Parcells 100K to evaluate the QB options and part of his report was, 'just don't draft Manziel'.  But Jimmuh had to have him.  The shiny thing that would give the Browns notoriety, he thought.  Didn't matter that the football people didn't want him.  

Yes,  but too bad we never knew what he could do past winning the Heisman   "IF"   he buckled down to be a serious NFL quarterback  (like that young Bernie Kosar for one example).

And we never will.  

And how many other first round and other picks did the  BROWNS  botch in that era.   Part of the plenty of blame to go around era in Cleveland Browns Football.

GO BROWNS !  

......... edit add, recently the BROWNS have done much better !  

Cleveland Browns first-round draft picks through the years: Where are they now?

https://fox8.com/sports/nfl-draft/cleveland-browns-first-round-draft-picks-through-the-years-where-are-they-now/

@mjp28 said:

Too bad, we never really knew how good he coulda, shoulda, woulda  been

Actually, I think we do know.  He was last in first out.  He didn't do X's and O's.  He didn't do film study.  He was gonna be the bum that he turned out to be.  Bad pick.  We paid Parcells 100K to evaluate the QB options and part of his report was, 'just don't draft Manziel'.  But Jimmuh had to have him.  The shiny thing that would give the Browns notoriety, he thought.  Didn't matter that the football people didn't want him.  

@texasag1969 said:

I have no idea. But I do know he is still revered at A&M for his Heisman season, regardless of later problems.

He was a great young NCAA football player......he just couldn't handle the " fame and fortune "  of being a too young NFL player.

Too bad, we never really knew how good he coulda, shoulda, woulda  been as a #22 draft pick ️ for the Cleveland Browns.  

@dutch-oven said:

Does he still have a substance abuse problem? 

I have no idea. But I do know he is still revered at A&M for his Heisman season, regardless of later problems.

@texasag1969 said:

If you know anything at all about addiction, then you are aware that all else falls to the wayside including maturing, hard work, interest in doing anything substantial, etc. The potential was there but not the rest.

Does he still have a substance abuse problem? 

@dutch-oven said:

Just.... no. 

Drafting Manziel was a horrible, horrible decision in every way possible. Even if you take away his substance abuse, he was immature and had zero interest in putting in the work it takes to be a top-notch QB.

If you know anything at all about addiction, then you are aware that all else falls to the wayside including maturing, hard work, interest in doing anything substantial, etc. The potential was there but not the rest.

@dutch-oven said:

Berry might have loved Baker even more than Dorsey coming into the draft, we'll probably never know.

He might have absolutely loved him in the spring of 2018, then watched him for half a decade and said "Yeah, I'm going to pass on giving this guy a huge extension". 

I think the point both you and Orion make are accurate.  I think the inconsistency in Baker is the problem and the hard read.  This past season we also saw some of the negative "chip on the shoulder" some people were worried about pre draft.  Being a walk on is a good story.  It can also make one wonder why he had to walk on a few times?  Is it just a good story or is there a problem there?  Why leave Texas Tech for Oklahoma if everything was rosy?  Texas Tech may not be as high profile as Oklahoma, but it is still a top program.

Looking here, Baker had problems with Hue.  OK...I can understand that, but now it seems there is a disconnect with Stefanski, and even some of the fans. I get the feeling the team may be sniffing around for possible options not only because there are questions about his up and down play, but also because we might feel he won't sign with us once he becomes a free agent. Baker has already demonstrated he will simply walk away from a program for whatever the motivation. 

We aren't in private meetings.  We don't know what has been said, or in some cases what hasn't been said. Just because we might want baker back doesn't mean he wants to be back. Sure, we can go the franchise route to keep him, but that never works out for the team or the player.

@texasag1969 said:

He brought escapability far greater than Baker. Unfortunately he could not escape substance abuse.

Yeah, Johnny ran a 4.7 while Baker ran a 4.8.    A regular Houdini there with that speed.

@texasag1969 said:

He brought escapability far greater than Baker. Unfortunately he could not escape substance abuse.

...he got hurt once trying to outrun a LB'er to the sidelines.  

My favorite Manziel play was when Bitonio turned away from his man and pretend blocked the invisible man...while 'his man' went straight at Manziel and flattened him.   The TV guy handling the replays saw it and played the replay from a camera that was focusing on the left side of the OL.  It was plain as day that Bitonio intentionally got JFF flattened...but the stupid announcers were talking about something completely different and not even paying attention to the replay.  -  it was funny as all get-out -

@texasag1969 said:

He brought escapability far greater than Baker. Unfortunately he could not escape substance abuse.

Just.... no. 

Drafting Manziel was a horrible, horrible decision in every way possible. Even if you take away his substance abuse, he was immature and had zero interest in putting in the work it takes to be a top-notch QB. 

Baker IMO is about tapped-out regarding his potential, but he's still light-years better than Manziel. He was a relatively safe, but uninspiring pick at #1. Manziel was a dumpster fire from the word GO.

@diehardbrownsfan said:

But you loved JFF?

He brought escapability far greater than Baker. Unfortunately he could not escape substance abuse.

@texasag1969 said:

Picking up the 5th year option is the best move because as damaged goods we will only know after that "bad" year if he is any better with a healed body. One of the reasons I didn't want him was size and ability to take hits. Seems to me only big QBs can take those when they stand in the pocket and Baker is not fast enough or quick enough to escape the  pocket and throw to the right option on the run.

But you loved JFF?

@orion said:

 So, yes, it's quite interesting that this bunch has never offered anything except picking up his 5th year option.

Picking up the 5th year option is the best move because as damaged goods we will only know after that "bad" year if he is any better with a healed body. One of the reasons I didn't want him was size and ability to take hits. Seems to me only big QBs can take those when they stand in the pocket and Baker is not fast enough or quick enough to escape the  pocket and throw to the right option on the run.

@orion said:

Really, the only one with any ties to Baker is Berry.  And we know that Dorsey and only Dorsey knew who he was picking...and he didn't tell his people whom he decided on until a day or so before the draft.  So, Berry could've liked Baker or maybe not so much.  He's smart enough not to say out loud if he actually wanted someone else.  

So, yes, it's quite interesting that this bunch has never offered anything except picking up his 5th year option.

Berry might have loved Baker even more than Dorsey coming into the draft, we'll probably never know.

He might have absolutely loved him in the spring of 2018, then watched him for half a decade and said "Yeah, I'm going to pass on giving this guy a huge extension". 

Happy Friday night.. ?

@dutch-oven said:

I think its very interesting that, ... , the team didn't try to extend him

Really, the only one with any ties to Baker is Berry.  And we know that Dorsey and only Dorsey knew who he was picking...and he didn't tell his people whom he decided on until a day or so before the draft.  So, Berry could've liked Baker or maybe not so much.  He's smart enough not to say out loud if he actually wanted someone else.  

So, yes, it's quite interesting that this bunch has never offered anything except picking up his 5th year option.

Almost makes one think they really don't want to sink a lot of money on him.

Edit: That was his third season, not his fourth that I was referencing. 

It wouldn't shock me if they drafted a QB at #13 though.