@baconhound said:

The response is a completely  different question.  There are check boxes for me such as genocide, chemical/biological warfare, UN/NATO support, etc.. I don’t feel enough of those have been checked to this point for me to say war is justified.  What Putin is doing is wrong, that fact has not changed.

Let me ask you this if you were the president of Russia what action would you take knowing that, or believing that, Ukraine was going to become a member of NATO?

WSS

By the way I just noticed you can't receive PMS

@westside-steve said:

Then  lets go to war.

WSS

The response is a completely  different question.  There are check boxes for me such as genocide, chemical/biological warfare, UN/NATO support, etc.. I don’t feel enough of those have been checked to this point for me to say war is justified.  What Putin is doing is wrong, that fact has not changed.

@baconhound said:

I see this as black and white, what Putin is doing is wrong and history will judge it as such.  

Then  lets go to war.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

I guess that's about as clear as I can be. It's a complicated situation. Sorry it's not good enough for you. Speaking of must be nice how about seeing everything as black and white? Isn't that what some of you guys accuse others of doing? If you think I'm wrong in any facet of my post feel free to let me know where you disagree.

WSS

I see this as black and white, what Putin is doing is wrong and history will judge it as such.  

@baconhound said:

Still haven’t taken a side. Must be nice to sit on the fence and then claim your opinion during the autopsy.

I guess that's about as clear as I can be. It's a complicated situation. Sorry it's not good enough for you. Speaking of must be nice how about seeing everything as black and white? Isn't that what some of you guys accuse others of doing? If you think I'm wrong in any facet of my post feel free to let me know where you disagree.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

As far as believing any narrative to be a contrarian I'm shocked that you don't see that in yourselves. It occurs to me I'm the only guy here that ever steps off the reservation. I have consistently preached stronger relations with Russia. Consistently.

Speaking of consistency you guys seem to take any world or United States issue and spin it so you can b**** about Donald Trump or prop up Joe Biden. That's ridiculous in my opinion.

Best opinion I can give you which is better than any of the bulshit you guys have put out oh, is that the Russians want to put a stop to the squealing about Ukraine joining NATO.

Considering us missiles in kharkiv we would have the same reaction as we would have with Russian missiles in Cuba. Or Detroit.

So that's one issue. Another issue would be how many ukrainians would prefer to go back to being part of Russia. Those are all Factory in so sorry I can't give you a black and white answer.

I know Putin is your boogie man and Russia has been strawman since the 1950s. And you guys don't give a rat's ass about Ukraine. And no, The Invasion is never a good look but there are mitigating factors.

As far as Joe Biden's response? He's a joke. There's probably nothing he can do anyway and the small things that he could he will refuse to do. In fact if you want to cry about oil and gas prices he could back off from the AOC and John Kerry factions of his party. But he won't. And the NATO members will keep buying their oil and gas from Russia anyway. Onlt America seems like a country willing to cut off their nose to spite their faces.

What more can I tell you that will make my opinion more clear?

Just as an aside you can probably find the debate between Joe Biden and Mitt Romney where he scolded the senator for saying that the Russians were a big problem. And I don't have any idea how much this comes into play but it seems like the Joe Biden Ukraine corruption rank has been overlooked. That's not surprising because Democrats are in power. I control the media to a large extent.

WSS

Still haven’t taken a side. Must be nice to sit on the fence and then claim your opinion during the autopsy.

@baconhound said:

Can’t make this stuff up 

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/22/1082478790/trump-praises-putin-as-savvy-amid-new-escalations-on-russia-ukraine-border

@baconhound said:

@tiamat63 said:

Given that this is a conflict of choice but Russia, the concept of this being planned, prepared, war-gamed, recon'd, testing of geo-political waters, financial blowback, long term occupational cost, etc etc... to believe this was a move coordinated from February of last year to rolled out now is.... either a incredible feat of military engineering or laughable.

*******************************

This is a dumb contention at this point - planning over years has nothing to do with who was president. Be serious? But ACTING OUT and INVADING - the timing was keen - did NOT DO IT WHILE PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS PRESIDENT.

********************************

Russian aggression in 2008 started things down this current path.  For those not keeping score, that would have been under Bush.  Everything else since then has been a litmus test of pursuing further Russian expansion.   

********************************

see comments below - that was started, but stopped in five days.

********************************

In short, that means while Putin was playing reasonable with Obama and Trump on the surface, he was undermining any deterrent they believed brought to the table by their administrations the entire time.  This has been in the works for a good while now.  

I don't have to go back and read the responses to know what the majority of posters who frequent the poli board are offering up in their boundless foreign policy knowledge.   I'm sure it's simply BiDeNs FaUlT -or- tRuMpS fAuLt (the latter in the case of Tex)

********************************

AGAIN, planning and undermining - is NOT the point. He never invaded and took the Ukraine. DOING it is the thing. "planning it" is irrespective and non-consequential as to who was president. Nice try, but not valid at all. My point is, 9/11 was planned for three years. But when they actually DID hit, it was under Pres Bush. That is was planned  is just that. No guilt or embarrassment or failure on who was president during their planning. Except for clinton being ....serviced by Lewinski under his desk and not taking the call to take out bin laden...but I digress....

******************************************

In reality this is a failure of 2 decades of policy, both domestic from the US along with individual and collective failures from NATO members.  My thoughts are with the Ukrainian people and those who armed themselves to resist.  Russia believed they would modern blitzkrieg their way to controlling key locations within 48 hours.   But if on-ground reporting is even remotely accurate, the Russian attack has not been as overwhelming as they believed it would. To the point Russian forces and armor has struggled to even secure certain points.  Credit the Ukrainians for their tenacity. You can learn a lot watching your enemy, even if it's not in an engagement with you. 

*********************************************

Failure to know what they were planning, sure. Actually going for broke when the time is right - and full scale invasion happens when the obaMao/biden incompetence and division has America inept with no effective legit leadership to oppose in any way.

 although Georgia conflict was different. That was a historical hostility between russia and Georgia, since 1918. Different situation entirely.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/opinion/russian-seizure-of-georgian-pipeline-has-dangerous-implications/

See, russia vs Georgia was five days. Bush and the world handled it, got a ceasefire, etc etc etc. Look at the timeline.

But it started again... in 09. Why? because obaMao became president after winning in Nov 08, that's why. And when russia took over Georgia's crtitical OIL PIPELINE ? it was in 2015. Guess who was president in 2015.

ObaMao commie sombeitch. His vice pres obviously was bramble-brained biden. Now, the Ukraine has been fine except for a corrupt pro-Soviet gov. back then -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine

VAST majority of the Ukraine people wanted freedom and closer ties with the west.

Now here is where it gets amazing. Yanukovych. ***electoral fraud***. Elected.... favoring EU, etc.

then goes full on toward russia. Then became incredibly filthy rich. where did the fortune come from?

it wasn't his presidential salary. He was finally removed from office by the Ukraine people for being a traitor and selling them out to russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych

russia has been meddling for years. But invasion? that takes weak leadership in America. obaMao/biden/left.

That is how russia prefers to work. obaMao was president.

failing to keep controlling the Ukraine (refer to stalin and Holodomor in the distant past) pukin has been seething over the loss of the soviet union and not controlling and "owning" the Ukraine for years. But did not act out and invade until biden was back into our WH.

@diehardbrownsfan said:

I think that Putin is mentally ill.  Something snapped in him.  He is dangerous now, very dangerous and I hope his generals can put a stop to his madness before he does something really stupid like invade a NATO country.

@calfoxwc said:

nobody is "praising putin " anything. Never underestimate your opponent - putin isn't stupid, he's diabolically

driven, and is evil. Clever, sure. He was in the kgb.

Why not give the trolling fake narratives a rest - they blow up in yer'alls faces all the time.

I think that Putin is mentally ill.  Something snapped in him.  He is dangerous now, very dangerous and I hope his generals can put a stop to his madness before he does something really stupid like invade a NATO country.

@fairhooker11 said:

@WSS 

i hope that that the BB can be saved - otherwise Im gonna miss reading your stuff - its  excellent 

Thank you hook. I would hate to see the old gang completely dissipated. Many of us have been together since Thirty or forty years.

WSS

i hope that that the BB can be saved - otherwise Im gonna miss reading your stuff - its  excellent 

@baconhound said:

You’ll believe any narrative to be a contrarian but you still haven’t answered the questions.  Take a real stance so when this is autopsied we’ll see who is on the right side if history. I believe Putin is a violent dictator that is invading a country for his own benefit and is WRONG.

As far as believing any narrative to be a contrarian I'm shocked that you don't see that in yourselves. It occurs to me I'm the only guy here that ever steps off the reservation. I have consistently preached stronger relations with Russia. Consistently.

Speaking of consistency you guys seem to take any world or United States issue and spin it so you can b**** about Donald Trump or prop up Joe Biden. That's ridiculous in my opinion.

Best opinion I can give you which is better than any of the bulshit you guys have put out oh, is that the Russians want to put a stop to the squealing about Ukraine joining NATO.

Considering us missiles in kharkiv we would have the same reaction as we would have with Russian missiles in Cuba. Or Detroit.

So that's one issue. Another issue would be how many ukrainians would prefer to go back to being part of Russia. Those are all Factory in so sorry I can't give you a black and white answer.

I know Putin is your boogie man and Russia has been strawman since the 1950s. And you guys don't give a rat's ass about Ukraine. And no, The Invasion is never a good look but there are mitigating factors.

As far as Joe Biden's response? He's a joke. There's probably nothing he can do anyway and the small things that he could he will refuse to do. In fact if you want to cry about oil and gas prices he could back off from the AOC and John Kerry factions of his party. But he won't. And the NATO members will keep buying their oil and gas from Russia anyway. Onlt America seems like a country willing to cut off their nose to spite their faces.

What more can I tell you that will make my opinion more clear?

Just as an aside you can probably find the debate between Joe Biden and Mitt Romney where he scolded the senator for saying that the Russians were a big problem. And I don't have any idea how much this comes into play but it seems like the Joe Biden Ukraine corruption rank has been overlooked. That's not surprising because Democrats are in power. I control the media to a large extent.

WSS

@baconhound said:

Do you believe  Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is justified? Do you believe the US should praise Putin for his actions?

nobody is "praising putin " anything. Never underestimate your opponent - putin isn't stupid, he's diabolically

driven, and is evil. Clever, sure. He was in the kgb.

Why not give the trolling fake narratives a rest - they blow up in yer'alls faces all the time.

@westside-steve said:

Does that portion of Ukraine have of right to Independence? Or remain Russian? If so it's really none of our business. Furthermore Russia has always wanted and needed that area. I don't suppose Canada wants Detroit back.

WSS

You’ll believe any narrative to be a contrarian but you still haven’t answered the questions.  Take a real stance so when this is autopsied we’ll see who is on the right side if history. I believe Putin is a violent dictator that is invading a country for his own benefit and is WRONG.

@baconhound said:

Do you believe  Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is justified? Do you believe the US should praise Putin for his actions?

Does that portion of Ukraine have of right to Independence? Or remain Russian? If so it's really none of our business. Furthermore Russia has always wanted and needed that area. I don't suppose Canada wants Detroit back.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Well good. No doubt some meaningless sanctions will do the trick. If that fails you could always scream real loud about Trump. Which is the basis of the original post right?

Where have I been unclear and what kind of an opinion are you looking for? I think I've been pretty clear. I guess if the Europeans and the other NATO members who buy their gas and oil from Russia can do what they want. Nostalgia can be tricky especially if guys are looking back longingly at the days of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

WSS

Do you believe  Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is justified? Do you believe the US should praise Putin for his actions?

@hoorta said:

Yup, I've said what I felt I needed to say. If there's any good to come out of the Board going bye-bye in 34 days, you poor MAGAs are going to need to find a new home to spew your right wing crap. Shit, Steve can't even come to admit Putin's plan to essentially reconstitute the USSR started long before Joe became president, & #45 bears significant responsibility for it. The guy was too busy playing golf than to spend any time on foreign policy. 

So is it going to be  Parler, Frank Speech, or Truth Social for you guys?

In Cal's words "Have a nice day".. And just pray WWIII isn't right around the corner.  

@diehardbrownsfan said:

You can thank your old demented shit President for that.

yep. and the you know who is too cowardly to admit that ONLY under obaMao/biden, and now biden/harris....

has pukin made brazen invasions to make his new soviet dreams come true.

Watching the news on the war... Ukraine men, women and children are dying....

fighting in the streets, the nazi russians have sent missiles into hospitals, an orphanage, homes, and they have a "kill on sight" list.

only every voter who voted against a terrific PRESIDENT TRUMP, like him personally or not, caused this war to happen, caused Crimea to happen....

and maybe WWIII.

They laugh, don't give a damn, because their egos are the only thing that matters to them.

really sick stuff.

A Ukraine young boy ran for help from his Father was shot down in the street. Funny to the lefty trollers, no doubt.

Russian soldiers in a hospital were telling staff that they were told......

that the Ukraine invaded their country.

No free press let's that be possible. Russian thugs beating up and arresting hundreds of protesters against pukin and his aggressive war on the Ukraine, in cities all around Russia.

and certain pukes have zero respect for our Constitution/Bill of Rights, our freedom, our country, our flag....

because all they can see is their egos, beecause theire swelled heads are stuck up their asses.

I said there will be a war. There's a war.

Crimea and Ukraine and whatever else are directly the fault of slutty obaMao commie and bumblebrained biden....

and every single voter who voted for them. Especially all those who were deceased but voted for them anyways via anonymous mail in ballots.