@flugel said:

Okay, do you realize the next year Wentz improved that to 69.58% but his TD to INT ratio dropped to 21 to 7?   

1 easy way to improve a completion percentage is to increase the volume of short little swing passes and/or shuffle passes (in lieu of hand-offs).  When Lindy Infante was hired as our OC in Bernie Kosar's 2nd year (1986), he completed 122 passes to the RBs in lieu of expecting both Byner & Mack to rush for over 1000 yards apiece again.  In the process, Kosar went from a completion % of 50 as a rookie to 58.4 as a 2nd year QB - which wasn't bad at all in that era.  

The first part -  That would indicate what you just said immediately after.  And yes, I'm aware his ratio dropped.  The numbers from the previous serious would have been preferred because they to insist that Wentz was driving the ball downfield to his receivers more consistently.   In the modern NFL, elite QB's drive the ball downfield regularly.   At the same time, this may be at the expense of offensive efficiency.  Sure, you might connect on some home run passes every now and again, but how many chain movers did he miss that stalled out drives?  I'd have to go back and watch the Eagles 2017 offense to better find answers.  Vice versa, he may have yielded a higher completion percentage the year after, but couldn't drive the ball downfield.  Resulting in an artificially high completion percentage, but poor TD numbers and YPA.

Ian Hartitz@Ihartitz

QB average time to release vs. average target depth ranks in 2021 (PFF)

Further up: Throws the ball downfield more
Further down: Doesn't throw downfield much
Further left: Gets rid of the ball quickly
Further right: Holds the ball for a long time

Tom Brady is different.

Nov 15, 2021 88 8View on X

Interesting QB stat page

@bob806 said:

Lindy was simply superb. That offense was really really good. 

When he left for the Green Bay job it was the beginning of Marty's demise as head coach. 

That and the OLine got old overnight, and Kosar got the hell beat out of him. 

@flugel said:

When Lindy Infante was hired as our OC in Bernie Kosar's 2nd year (1986), he completed 122 passes to the RBs in lieu of expecting both Byner & Mack to rush for over 1000 yards apiece again.  In the process, Kosar went from a completion % of 50 as a rookie to 58.4 as a 2nd year QB - which wasn't bad at all in that era.  

Lindy was simply superb. That offense was really really good. 

When he left for the Green Bay job it was the beginning of Marty's demise as head coach. 

@tiamat63 said:

A defense that generated a ton of turnovers, large downfield targets and an offensive system to help mask his weaknesses.

For all the MVP talk, Wentz finished up that season at 60% comp, middle of the pack in YPG for his 5 seasons in philly at 253yards, and a breath away from 2nd lowest passing attempts during his tenure with the Eagles.

While you make some really good points I agree with here - I'm not talking about his 5 seasons in Philly.  I was only talking about his 2nd season where he had a TD-INT ratio of 33 to 7 in just 13 games.   Like I said, it all changed after that.

You mentioned the 60% comp rate.  Okay, do you realize the next year Wentz improved that to 69.58% but his TD to INT ratio dropped to 21 to 7?   1 easy way to improve a completion percentage is to increase the volume of short little swing passes and/or shuffle passes (in lieu of hand-offs).  When Lindy Infante was hired as our OC in Bernie Kosar's 2nd year (1986), he completed 122 passes to the RBs in lieu of expecting both Byner & Mack to rush for over 1000 yards apiece again.  In the process, Kosar went from a completion % of 50 as a rookie to 58.4 as a 2nd year QB - which wasn't bad at all in that era.  

@flugel said:

The strange thing about the guy is he was playing like a League MVP until he got injured the year Philly won the SB with Foles at QB.

It all changed after that leading many to wonder - what WENTZ wrong?     

That's perfect......what WENTZ wrong  ?  

.......edit,  that kind of rare 1-AA QB with powerhouse NDST that makes it big time in the NFL and then hits that wall whatever it is.  You wonder injuries,  the big money life, whatever will he make it back,  be a backup QB or to paraphrase MacArthur  " just fade away ".

@flugel said:

The strange thing about the guy is he was playing like a League MVP until he got injured the year Philly won the SB with Foles at QB.

It all changed after that leading many to wonder - what WENTZ wrong?     

A defense that generated a ton of turnovers, large downfield targets and an offensive system to help mask his weaknesses.

For all the MVP talk, Wentz finished up that season at 60% comp, middle of the pack in YPG for his 5 seasons in philly at 253yards, and a breath away from 2nd lowest passing attempts during his tenure with the Eagles.

@mjp28 said:

From Yahoo Sports,  Thursday March 10, 2022......  So you want to be an NFL GM, huh ?

Gone with the Wentz, Part II

.......The Colts, realizing they'd bought a lemon, were apparently ready to eat the $15 million cap hit they would take by cutting loose Wentz. If you're wondering if you have what it takes to be an NFL GM, here's an easy test: would you commit anything to a guy two teams were apparently willing to surrender a combined $49 million not to play for them? 

But hey, you can't spell "incompetence" without "C-O-M," and here's where the Commanders come into the picture. Wentz has exhibited a proclivity for making the worst possible choice at the worst possible time to hurt his team in the worst possible way, which makes him a perfect fit for Daniel Snyder's ever-dysfunctional Washington football concern. 

Wentz is only the most extreme current example of what's becoming a growing NFL trend: the disposable franchise savior. For every Patrick Mahomes, who arrives via the draft to lift a franchise to new heights, there are half a dozen Wentzes, Jared Goffs, Sam Darnolds, Mitch Trubiskys and Josh Rosens — top-10 picks who couldn't stick with their teams for more than a handful of seasons. 

The NFL is a cruel, pitiless business. Maybe Wentz will rediscover his mojo in Washington. Or maybe, two years from now, the Commanders will be right where the Colts are today: wondering what the hell went wrong, and what to do next........

The strange thing about the guy is he was playing like a League MVP until he got injured the year Philly won the SB with Foles at QB.

It all changed after that leading many to wonder - what WENTZ wrong?     

@mjp28 said:

From SI Aug 6, 2021......

..Hornung was not the only player suspended for gambling and “associating with undesirables” that season. Alex Karras was among the league’s fiercest linemen. A scowling, almost cartoonish brute, he referred to opposing players as “milk drinkers.” Mike Ditka, then the Bears’ tight end, remarked that there were no players tougher than Karras. “He was thought of, at the time, as the best defensive lineman in football,” Ditka said. “I know there was Big Daddy Lipscomb. There were a lot of guys. But he was the best.”......

And his fall from grace led to a movie career including the role of Mongo. ?

.....Rozelle explained that a ban of at least one full season was in order.

“You have no choice, do you?” Lombardi asked.

“I don’t think so, Vinny,” Rozelle replied. “Let’s go get a drink.”

Hornung was not the only player suspended for gambling and “associating with undesirables” that season. Alex Karras was among the league’s fiercest linemen. A scowling, almost cartoonish brute, he referred to opposing players as “milk drinkers.” Mike Ditka, then the Bears’ tight end, remarked that there were no players tougher than Karras. “He was thought of, at the time, as the best defensive lineman in football,” Ditka said. “I know there was Big Daddy Lipscomb. There were a lot of guys. But he was the best.”......

@hoorta said:

The exact compensation the Colts got is open to debate mjp.....  NFL.com says it's a 2022 3rd, a 2023 3rd that can become a 2nd if Wentz plays 70% of the offensive snaps, and the Colts and Commanders are flipping 2nd round picks this April.   

So essentially, for a couple third round picks the Commanders get to test drive the price equivalent of a Lamborghini for a year to see if they like it.  Wentz's 2023 dead cap number is $0...   

So the Colts get to move up six slots in the 2nd, but they're probably kicking themselves that they gave up #16 in the first round to the Eagles for a lemon....  

It's getting to be that nothing really surprises me anymore in professional football. 

What has happened to the recent old new No Fun Leagle ?   

Now an Atlanta WR getting suspended for betting on football  ?  An al la Paul Horning and Alex " Mongo " Karras from the 1959-1961ish betting on sports penalty  ? The good ol' days.  

What's next the return of Joe turkey Jones ?

@mjp28 said:

But there's more.......

You've probably got salad dressing and ketchup in your fridge that's been there longer than Carson Wentz was an Indianapolis Colt. 

Just 358 days after the Eagles dealt onetime franchise savior Wentz to Indy, the Colts shipped him right back to the NFC East, sending him to Washington for a couple of second-round picks. It marks a stunning fall for Wentz, so rapid that Philadelphia hasn't even gotten a chance to use the 2022 pick it received in return. (The Eagles presumably will not be surrendering the pick. You start him, you bought him, Indy.) 

What happened here? What went wrong so quickly in Indianapolis, and what panicked terror convinced the Commanders — nope, still not used to typing that — to pick up Wentz's outstanding $28 million tab and send a couple draft picks Indy's way? 

Well, to start, there's this: heading into the final weeks of the season, Indianapolis had a 97 percent chance of making the playoffs, then lost consecutive games to Las Vegas and Jacksonville. (Really. It's true.) After diaper-filling performances like that cost Indy a postseason berth, Wentz could count his days remaining with the team by looking at his uniform.........

The rest is in today's  Yahoo Sports.......  by Jay Busbee.

The exact compensation the Colts got is open to debate mjp.....  NFL.com says it's a 2022 3rd, a 2023 3rd that can become a 2nd if Wentz plays 70% of the offensive snaps, and the Colts and Commanders are flipping 2nd round picks this April.   

So essentially, for a couple third round picks the Commanders get to test drive the price equivalent of a Lamborghini for a year to see if they like it.  Wentz's 2023 dead cap number is $0...   

So the Colts get to move up six slots in the 2nd, but they're probably kicking themselves that they gave up #16 in the first round to the Eagles for a lemon....  

It makes the NFL Draft season  " must see TV ".   I'm in baby with my 1 house on Baltic Avenue. ?

You've probably got salad dressing and ketchup in your fridge that's been there longer than Carson Wentz was an Indianapolis Colt. 

Just 358 days after the Eagles dealt onetime franchise savior Wentz to Indy, the Colts shipped him right back to the NFC East, sending him to Washington for a couple of second-round picks. It marks a stunning fall for Wentz, so rapid that Philadelphia hasn't even gotten a chance to use the 2022 pick it received in return. (The Eagles presumably will not be surrendering the pick. You start him, you bought him, Indy.) 

What happened here? What went wrong so quickly in Indianapolis, and what panicked terror convinced the Commanders — nope, still not used to typing that — to pick up Wentz's outstanding $28 million tab and send a couple draft picks Indy's way? 

Well, to start, there's this: heading into the final weeks of the season, Indianapolis had a 97 percent chance of making the playoffs, then lost consecutive games to Las Vegas and Jacksonville. (Really. It's true.) After diaper-filling performances like that cost Indy a postseason berth, Wentz could count his days remaining with the team by looking at his uniform.........

The rest is in today's  Yahoo Sports.......  by Jay Busbee.